Knowing all you know today about this case who do you think really killed JonBenet?

Who do you believe killed JonBenet?

  • Patsy

    Votes: 168 25.0%
  • John

    Votes: 44 6.6%
  • Burke

    Votes: 107 15.9%
  • an unknown intruder

    Votes: 86 12.8%
  • BR (head bash), then JR

    Votes: 4 0.6%
  • BR (head bash); then JR & PR (strangled/coverup)

    Votes: 113 16.8%
  • Knowing all I know, still on the fence.

    Votes: 55 8.2%
  • John, with an 'inside' accomplice

    Votes: 11 1.6%
  • I think John and Patsy caught him and he made her cover up

    Votes: 17 2.5%
  • I still have no idea

    Votes: 57 8.5%
  • patsy and john helped cover it up

    Votes: 9 1.3%

  • Total voters
    671
Status
Not open for further replies.
I tend to think John's actions, aside from money, are because either

1) Patsy did it and Burke also knows this.
2) Patsy did it and only John knows this.
3) John did it and Patsy's dead so he is being his arrogant self-aggrandizing self.

For anything to still be prosecutable, it has to involve John or someone we don't know about since Burke's name can not be even mentioned (or so we are told, based on Colorado law). How could Kolar hold out hope for some kind of prosecution if Burke is involved?

Something doesn't fit and, imo, Burke knows something that he can testify to that incriminates John. Now that's just an opinion but Kolar contradicts himself, in my opinion, by saying Burke can't be prosecuted yet on the other hand he holds out hope for a prosecutable case.
 
Thanks eileehawkeye. I agree with the money angle but what I don't understand is why bring up something that can cause your son to be brought under scrutiny? I understand Burke can't be prosecuted but what parent would do that to their child -- put that child under the microscope again. Even if he can't be charged he knows he did it (if Burke did, indeed, do it).

But the media book tour really didn't put Burke under scrutiny. In most interviews, I don't even think Burke was mentioned. Right? I think it was just Anderson and People where he was brought up. The other media outlets were probably told not to ask about him, because you would think, "How's Burke?" would be like a standard interview question.
 
There are always people out there that need the limelight despite the risk of being caught. Like those criminals who return to the scene to see the chaos of the police arriving. They don't think they are going to be caught- but they get some sort of satisfaction by taunting everyone with their presence.
 
When you think about it, it's pretty messed up that someone like John Ramsey, who at the very least, covered up the murder of his daughter (IMO), can get airtime on many, many national media outlets 16 years after his daughter died, but someone like Elaine Redwine, whose son went missing two months ago, can't even get her calls returned. :/
 
When you think about it, it's pretty messed up that someone like John Ramsey, who at the very least, covered up the murder of his daughter (IMO), can get airtime on many, many national media outlets 16 years after his daughter died, but someone like Elaine Redwine, whose son went missing two months ago, can't even get her calls returned. :/

It is sad, and there is nothing right or good about it. There are so many missing and murdered children and adults every year, who don't get pubicity, which has been proven many times, to help solve a case!!
 
There are always people out there that need the limelight despite the risk of being caught. Like those criminals who return to the scene to see the chaos of the police arriving. They don't think they are going to be caught- but they get some sort of satisfaction by taunting everyone with their presence.

I understand what you are saying but I don't see John Ramsey as a criminal personality.

Also, he was not so self-aggrandizing before JonBenet was killed. Who had even heard of the Ramseys before JonBenet was killed?

I think since Patsy's dead he has nothing to fear, unless maybe a sister-in-law might get fed up with him.

Eileenhawkeye, I really don't know how much publicity Burke has received from his dad's new book, either directly or peripherally, but it takes a real jerk to bring up something that directly involved his son (if it did directly involve Burke). I guess I'm being dense but I still think Patsy or Patsy and John are the guilty dogs here. I wouldn't believe or trust either of them any farther than I could throw them. But I don't get the feeling either would subject a child to ridicule, or worse.
 
I tend to think John's actions, aside from money, are because either

1) Patsy did it and Burke also knows this.
2) Patsy did it and only John knows this.
3) John did it and Patsy's dead so he is being his arrogant self-aggrandizing self.

For anything to still be prosecutable, it has to involve John or someone we don't know about since Burke's name can not be even mentioned (or so we are told, based on Colorado law). How could Kolar hold out hope for some kind of prosecution if Burke is involved?

Something doesn't fit and, imo, Burke knows something that he can testify to that incriminates John. Now that's just an opinion but Kolar contradicts himself, in my opinion, by saying Burke can't be prosecuted yet on the other hand he holds out hope for a prosecutable case.

I wish we had more knowledge and less questions! I don't believe that anything happened in that house involving Patsy, that Patsy didn't control, (or at least she believed she did).

I don't believe, at all, that Patsy would 'deal with the situation', without making sure that John was involved up to his eyeballs. I can only imagine her putting herself into a situation like Jon Benet's death, to protect one person.

I think she could have thrown John under the bus without batting an eye, especially when you read the rumors of a rocky relationship. She only cared for two people enough to take a chance like she did and one of them was dead.

Patsy may have been a lot of things, but she was a survivor. She would have made sure that she wouldn't go to jail alone if it came down to that.
 
I understand what you are saying but I don't see John Ramsey as a criminal personality.

Also, he was not so self-aggrandizing before JonBenet was killed. Who had even heard of the Ramseys before JonBenet was killed?

I think since Patsy's dead he has nothing to fear, unless maybe a sister-in-law might get fed up with him.

Eileenhawkeye, I really don't know how much publicity Burke has received from his dad's new book, either directly or peripherally, but it takes a real jerk to bring up something that directly involved his son (if it did directly involve Burke). I guess I'm being dense but I still think Patsy or Patsy and John are the guilty dogs here. I wouldn't believe or trust either of them any farther than I could throw them. But I don't get the feeling either would subject a child to ridicule, or worse.

So why do you think he is writing books, giving interviews, etc.?
 
So why do you think he is writing books, giving interviews, etc.?

That's been my question for several months. What person in their right mind would bring this up again after all these years when it serves no purpose in finding her killer. John and Patsy, from the beginning, both seemed more concerned with their personal image and their "poor me" and "Job" philosophy than they were with finding JonBenet's killer.

There must be a reason Mr. Ramsey continues to seek publicity. I have no idea about his finances but I seriously doubt he made much on this book.
 
That's been my question for several months. What person in their right mind would bring this up again after all these years when it serves no purpose in finding her killer. John and Patsy, from the beginning, both seemed more concerned with their personal image and their "poor me" and "Job" philosophy than they were with finding JonBenet's killer.

There must be a reason Mr. Ramsey continues to seek publicity. I have no idea about his finances but I seriously doubt he made much on this book.

Well, I don't know how much money he made off of it either. But I'm pretty sure it was ghostwritten, and all John had to do was talk to the media for about a week or two. That's not much effort to pocket some $$. I mean, I would think he made at least 100k from it when you consider the initial deal, any interviews, new pictures of JBR, etc. I doubt he made much from royalties, though.

I am completely speculating here...but I don't think he is struggling when it comes to finances, or is desperate for cash, but I think he still has a "rich man" mentality when it comes to money; i.e.: what is a lot of money, and what isn't.
 
That's been my question for several months. What person in their right mind would bring this up again after all these years when it serves no purpose in finding her killer. John and Patsy, from the beginning, both seemed more concerned with their personal image and their "poor me" and "Job" philosophy than they were with finding JonBenet's killer.

There must be a reason Mr. Ramsey continues to seek publicity. I have no idea about his finances but I seriously doubt he made much on this book.

BOESP, maybe the answer is very simple: to minimize the impact of Kolar book! I'm sure JR knew that Kolar's book will be published pretty soon, in 2012. He needs to neutralized it's effect. And to do it fast, he used the 'religion' publishing company...and here we go. TWO books came almost at the same time. Pity my *advertiser censored* aka Another ('other') Side of Suffering versa TRUTH behind JBR 'kidnapping'. jmo
 
There are always people out there that need the limelight despite the risk of being caught. Like those criminals who return to the scene to see the chaos of the police arriving. They don't think they are going to be caught- but they get some sort of satisfaction by taunting everyone with their presence.

Good analogy imho! But I think there is more to it.

So why do you think he is writing books, giving interviews, etc.?

That's been my question for several months. What person in their right mind would bring this up again after all these years when it serves no purpose in finding her killer. John and Patsy, from the beginning, both seemed more concerned with their personal image and their "poor me" and "Job" philosophy than they were with finding JonBenet's killer.

There must be a reason Mr. Ramsey continues to seek publicity. I have no idea about his finances but I seriously doubt he made much on this book.

I truly believe that John was involved, if not the 'ringleader' of the coverup. So, now, Patsy is dead, Jon Benet is dead, Burke has earned his fathers trust, either by staying silent to protect himself or his parents.

What does John have to prove? He wants absolution. By writing this book, which sorry, I refuse to buy or read, it is a rehashing of the families innocence. Yet, nothing has ever been solved, no suspect found, despite all of the publicity and investigation that has been done.

It is also damage control for Kolar's book. How can you deny a publication most effectively? By releasing your own publication.

The R's were always masterful scriptors. They made sure LE questions were scripted, talk show questions were scripted and their first book was scripted. JR had nothing to fear or lose and potentially much to gain.

Just think. From the first moment this began, The R's were scripting. It started with the initial phone calls to LE and then friends, who arrived and contaminated the crime scene. The refusal to answer questions, the lack of experience BPD had in containing and handling the investigation, which was not scripted by them, but they took advantage of. JR being the one to 'find JonBenet' and thereby having the chance to contaminate the crime scene. Lawyers, who were Johnny on the spot, leading the questioning from the beginning. Then, Lin Wood.

He certainly took full advantage of every opportunity he was given. From day one, when LE was present in the home and JR disappeared for an unspecified amount of time, to JonBenet being found in a place that had already been searched. Spotting the body on an overcast day, no light as yet being turned on. JR has a lot of ground to cover, a lot of 'innocence' to prove.

TThe fact that Kolar states this could be a case that can be prosecuted, has JR aware. I like that he is most likely a tiny bit scared. That in the back of his mind is this nagging feeling, that there might be some piece of evidence he forgot to script, some statement that can be used against him!! It seems very fitting and much deserved!
 
I wish we had more knowledge and less questions! I don't believe that anything happened in that house involving Patsy, that Patsy didn't control, (or at least she believed she did).

I don't believe, at all, that Patsy would 'deal with the situation', without making sure that John was involved up to his eyeballs. I can only imagine her putting herself into a situation like Jon Benet's death, to protect one person.

I think she could have thrown John under the bus without batting an eye, especially when you read the rumors of a rocky relationship. She only cared for two people enough to take a chance like she did and one of them was dead.

Patsy may have been a lot of things, but she was a survivor. She would have made sure that she wouldn't go to jail alone if it came down to that.

Sunnie I agree with most of what you've said. The one thing I differ on is PR throwing JR under the bus. Patsy loved her lavish lifestyle. Image was everything to her. I don't think anything would have ever made her throw JR under the bus! He was the powerful, financially successful, socially prominent bread winner of the household. If she turned on him she would have lost everything. I think the only one she was protecting was herself in two ways. 1. She was in it neck deep. and 2. She was protecting her lifestyle. IMO she would have sacrificed BR before JR if it had come down to that. I don't think she had to involve JR...I think he was already involved.
 
Sunnie I agree with most of what you've said. The one thing I differ on is PR throwing JR under the bus. Patsy loved her lavish lifestyle. Image was everything to her. I don't think anything would have ever made her throw JR under the bus! He was the powerful, financially successful, socially prominent bread winner of the household. If she turned on him she would have lost everything. I think the only one she was protecting was herself in two ways. 1. She was in it neck deep. and 2. She was protecting her lifestyle. IMO she would have sacrificed BR before JR if it had come down to that. I don't think she had to involve JR...I think he was already involved.

I totally agree that JR was involved, deeply. I don't think PR wanted to 'give up' her lifestyle, but if it would have ended up being her, or John on trial, I truly believe she would have turned states evidence, faster than John did.
 
If I were to speculate (my opinion only, etc)...

Theory: Burke got JB some pinapple from the kitchen, and perhaps got out the flashlight at this time to look in the basement for presents. The two got into an argument over something and Burke decided to whack her with the flashlight (this seems all too possible to me, as my brother once whacked me in the head with a baseball bat). Dad and mom, for various reasons, and seeing how injured JB was, decided to cover it up. I suspect that Dad came up with the fake abduction and ordered Patsy to write the note while he took care of JB.

Why the cover up?

Dad: I suspect that dad had been sexually abusing JB for some time. He would have known that JBs abuse would be discovered in an autopsy, and I believe he hoped that the violent vaginal trama inflicted on the body would conceal this ongoing abuse from investigators. Dad clearly was the one who dressed JB, as mom never would have put her in these ridiculously oversized panties. Mom, after writing the note, probably brought her some of her favorite things.

Mom: would have been easy enough to convince. She obviously would not have wanted to lose both children, and quite possibly believed that Burkes behavior was linked to her own illness. Mom seems the obvious author of the note, not only because the writing and wording match well enough, but because John never would have written anything that ludicrous.

Burke: under this scenario Burke's behavior was more childhood idiocy than sociopathic and evil.

Chris_Texas,
Whatever happened that night. We now have forensic evidence that links all three Ramseys with the wine-cellar, i.e. Burke and Patsy Ramsey's touch dna was found on the Pink Barbie Nightgown.

The most important aspect is that staging was required. Also that the staging was more or less consistent with the Ramsey version of events.

Kolar thinks that things started in the Breakfast Bar, so where and how was JonBenet abused?

It now seems obvious that someone in that house, in the course of molesting JonBenet, either deliberately or accidentally whacked JonBenet on the head. This same person then initiated a cleanup of sorts and reported that JonBenet had had an accident.

I suspect JonBenet's molestation took place in her bedroom, and that she was originally wearing her Pink Barbie Nightgown. The interesting question is who redressed JonBenet in the longjohns, was it really Patsy? If so she would have known JonBenet was wearing size-12 Bloomingdales.

The partially opened Christmas Gifts are a clue. Some think they were opened to fetch the size-12 Bloomingdales, but why do this when there might be other underwear in the dryer or upstairs in JonBenet's bedroom. Where did the longjohns originate from?

Those partially opened gifts might be part of the original crime-scene and this is why they were placed into the wine-cellar, else why bother, or just blame it on the intruder?

On the pineapple snack I reckon that passed off without incident, with everyone involved going their own way, forgetting about its significance entirely?

Then we have, allegedly, Burke Ramsey's fecally stained pajama bottoms found lying on JonBenet's bedroom floor? Along with fecal deposits elsewhere on some object?

Which suggests to me that JonBenet's bedroom was the primary crime-scene, which must have been cleaned up to some extent afterwards. Notwithstanding a bloodstain from JonBenet on her pillow.

You could really make a case against any one of the R's. But BDI is the most consistent, including Burke Ramsey's refusal to answer any further Cold Case queries.

So it appears the staging was employed to hide JonBenet's molestation, and promote the claim JonBenet was placed straight to bed on 12/25. This suggests the R's were adopting a twin strategy of hoping she might not be found, then they could fly off into the sunset, or if found they would invoke what became their second response, i.e. IDI.

Otherwise why bother hiding her internal injuries from view, since if IDI was to be their principal explanation, just leave her semi-naked with obvious injuries and blame it all on IDI?

On BDI there is the possibility that the Grand Jury knew BR was involved in the staging sense, but not culpable in any other context. So decided he would be given blanket state protection? If there is no record of a vote, this would be consistent with someone arguing, no vote required, since state protection is mandatory?


.
 
So why do you think he is writing books, giving interviews, etc.?

I think John does it for John.

John knows Pasty did it, but blamed Burke, and he has to deal with the situation she put them in.

I pick Pasty as the one leaving bruises on JonBenet before she died,and John knew, but overlooked it.
So did Pasty throw Burke under the bus? To save herself?

But John does it for John.
 
I think John does it for John.

John knows Pasty did it, but blamed Burke, and he has to deal with the situation she put them in.

I pick Pasty as the one leaving bruises on JonBenet before she died,and John knew, but overlooked it.
So did Pasty throw Burke under the bus? To save herself?

But John does it for John.

ILikeToBendPages,
Bear in mind that JonBenet was molested just before she was hit on the head.

I do not think Patsy was responsible for that. I reckon it was either BR or JR, wih Patsy assisting with the staging?

As many have asked before, who would both parents cover for, and the obvious answer seems to be Burke Ramsey, who was shuffled out of the house early that morning, despite being a witness to prior events, and really out of the case, to all intents and purposes.

For years it was really only PR or JR who were considered as lead suspects, these days, Burke Ramsey's distinct lack of engagement, on both a personal and legal level, with the case, has many considering BDI as a more consistent theory.

Its the staging that indirectly offers clues. Since if it was PDI, then how come Patsy is ignorant about the location of the size-12's, or forgets to undo the remains of the pineapple snack?

I appreciate nobody is perfect, and criminals make mistakes, and if its PDI, then Patsy made some major errors, i.e. leaving her touch-dna and fibers all over the wine-cellar artifacts.

Even the white blanket wrapped around JonBenet was factored into the staging since Patsy said it had been on JonBenet's bed, yet BPD suggested otherwise.

Patsy had no such reply regarding the size-12's. They were in JonBenet's underwear drawer, she said. BPD checked and none were found, how so, if its PDI?

With Burke Ramsey's touch-dna along with that of his mother's being found on the Pink Barbie Nightgown, this links him directly to JonBenet. That the Gown was also dumped into the wine-cellar suggests that it was part of the primary crime-scene.

.
 
ILikeToBendPages,
Bear in mind that JonBenet was molested just before she was hit on the head.

I do not think Patsy was responsible for that. I reckon it was either BR or JR, wih Patsy assisting with the staging?

As many have asked before, who would both parents cover for, and the obvious answer seems to be Burke Ramsey, who was shuffled out of the house early that morning, despite being a witness to prior events, and really out of the case, to all intents and purposes.

For years it was really only PR or JR who were considered as lead suspects, these days, Burke Ramsey's distinct lack of engagement, on both a personal and legal level, with the case, has many considering BDI as a more consistent theory.

Its the staging that indirectly offers clues. Since if it was PDI, then how come Patsy is ignorant about the location of the size-12's, or forgets to undo the remains of the pineapple snack?

I appreciate nobody is perfect, and criminals make mistakes, and if its PDI, then Patsy made some major errors, i.e. leaving her touch-dna and fibers all over the wine-cellar artifacts.

Even the white blanket wrapped around JonBenet was factored into the staging since Patsy said it had been on JonBenet's bed, yet BPD suggested otherwise.

Patsy had no such reply regarding the size-12's. They were in JonBenet's underwear drawer, she said. BPD checked and none were found, how so, if its PDI?

With Burke Ramsey's touch-dna along with that of his mother's being found on the Pink Barbie Nightgown, this links him directly to JonBenet. That the Gown was also dumped into the wine-cellar suggests that it was part of the primary crime-scene.

.

BBM Not necessarily. This touch DNA could link BR, BUT most of us here, including you if I'm not mistaken, don't believe the touch DNA present from an unknown donor proves IDI. So how does BR's touch DNA have any more significance? His DNA could have been passed to the nightgown by PR just as easily. We can't ignore unknown touch DNA when it suits us, yet claim known touch DNA is proof when it backs up our theories.

Just my :twocents:
 
BBM Not necessarily. This touch DNA could link BR, BUT most of us here, including you if I'm not mistaken, don't believe the touch DNA present from an unknown donor proves IDI. So how does BR's touch DNA have any more significance? His DNA could have been passed to the nightgown by PR just as easily. We can't ignore unknown touch DNA when it suits us, yet claim known touch DNA is proof when it backs up our theories.

Just my :twocents:

Nom de plume,
Nobody can claim that the touch-dna found on JonBenet's underwear proves that there was an intruder!

If a match with the underwear touch-dna is ever made then the identified person can be eliminated or factored into the case.

This is same procedure for the touch-dna found on the Barbie Nightgown, the difference, we have a match , i.e. Burke and Patsy Ramsey!

To date Burke Ramsey has never been linked with the contents of the wine-cellar, given the nature of the case and that IDI, has more or less been ruled out. The presence of Burke Ramsey's dna on any wine-cellar artifact is significant.

It does not prove anything, or even implicate BR. But assuming that the Pink Barbie Nightgown was dumped into the wine-cellar, precisely because it formed part of the primary crime-scene. Then Burke Ramsey's touch-dna might link him directly with JonBenet, on the night of her death. Also what you say about PR applies to BR as well.

So in summary, it has more significance:

1. It has been matched and identified.

2. It was found on wine-cellar artifact.

3. The Pink Barbie Nightgown was bloodstained.

4. Patsy Ramsey claimed never to have physically visited the basement 12/25 or 12/26.

Prima facie, it appears the probability of an innocent explanation for the touch-dna is low.


.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
81
Guests online
3,461
Total visitors
3,542

Forum statistics

Threads
592,186
Messages
17,964,835
Members
228,714
Latest member
hannahdunnam
Back
Top