17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #27

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Looks like Francis fits right in with the shuck and jive being laid out in this deal. When Anderson Cooper asked him, on 3/21, about GZ and his gun, Francis said he was SHOCKED!:

When asked if he was aware Zimmerman was armed with a gun, Taaffe said, “I was extremely shocked to the fact that he was carrying a gun, yes.”

Asked what shocked him most, Taaffe said, “The lethal weapon, it wasn’t George. As I said, he was a very congenial, amiable man. The use of a lethal weapon, a deadly lethal weapon, as the 9 millimeter that he used was very shocking to me. It didn’t fit the person.”

http://www.allthingscnn.com/2012/03/tonight-on-ac360.html
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But on 4/9, when telling about GZ and the 2/2 incident at his house, Francis sang a different tune to JVM:

He went on to share that on the night of February 2, as he was walking through the neighborhood, ensuring the safety of all the residents at Twin Lakes, that he observed a young black male looking in the front of my house. He called -- he told me that he was walking his 100-pound Rottweiler. And that he was carrying a 9 millimeter with him at that time.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1204/09/ijvm.01.html
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Why does this not surprise me?
 
If he got on top of TM where is the blood on his clothes? Just a question, but I would think a bullet to the chest that close to the weapon would come out the back of the victim. GZ would have something on his person somewhere. Maybe one of our gun people can address this. I only know about deer, antelope, and elk. Went hunting with dad, but those were rifles not hand guns.

JMO IMO MOO
 
cityslick said:
Ever hear the game of telephone, where one tells a story to one person, then that person tells another the story as they heard it, so on and so on?

The game of telephone is being played in the article you are reading.
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Well his dad said he was reaching for his phone too on tv. His brother said it too in an interview. He said George backed up and reached for his phone and Trayvon hit him.
 
cityslick said:
Ever hear the game of telephone, where one tells a story to one person, then that person tells another the story as they heard it, so on and so on?

The game of telephone is being played in the article you are reading.
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Except, isn't that exactly what GZ's father said? That GZ was reaching for his phone and Trayvon saw the gun?

I don't think we can just blow off things that people like the father and brother say, it obviously comes straight from GZ.

JMHO
 
cityslick said:
Ever hear the game of telephone, where one tells a story to one person, then that person tells another the story as they heard it, so on and so on?

The game of telephone is being played in the article you are reading.
Click to expand...

Yup... sure have! But, they were told this directly from George Zimmerman's father. George's father was there for the walk-through. He knows what happened, right? Why would George Zimmerman's father tell them that Trayvon seen the gun as George was "reaching for" his phone? To make it look better for his son. He knows his son was reaching for that gun.

These are also George's "friends." Why would they say something like that if George's father didn't say it?

MOO
 
annalia said:
Except, isn't that exactly what GZ's father said? That GZ was reaching for his phone and Trayvon saw the gun?

I don't think we can just blow off things that people like the father and brother say, it obviously comes straight from GZ.

JMHO
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BBM

I think the only obvious thing that anyone knows in this case is TM is dead and GZ shot him IMO.
 
Did Zimmerman's dad say that Martin saw the gun as he was reaching for his phone? I thought that was just speculation. I thought the dad said that he was reaching for his phone when Martin hit him.

JMO
 
LolaMoon08 said:
Yup... sure have! But, they were told this directly from George Zimmerman's father. George's father was there for the walk-through. He knows what happened, right? Why would George Zimmerman's father tell them that Trayvon seen the gun as George was "reaching for" his phone? To make it look better for his son. He knows his son was reaching for that gun.

These are also George's "friends." Why would they say something like that if George's father didn't say it?

MOO
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BBM

Case closed, why would GZ's father lie for his son? Why would GZ's father say things that paint his son in a better light, even if GZ himself never told him this?
 
cityslick said:
BBM

I think the only obvious thing that anyone knows in this case is TM is dead and GZ shot him IMO.
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It's also obvious that GZ's family have been speaking on his behalf, giving specific details about that night, who els would it have come from if not GZ himself?

That's part of the case, in my opinion

It will remain to be seen if there is a trial and they are called to the stand.

JMHO
 
LolaMoon08 said:
Yup... sure have! But, they were told this directly from George Zimmerman's father. George's father was there for the walk-through. He knows what happened, right? Why would George Zimmerman's father tell them that Trayvon seen the gun as George was "reaching for" his phone? To make it look better for his son. He knows his son was reaching for that gun.

These are also George's "friends." Why would they say something like that if George's father didn't say it?

MOO
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I'm just not willing to make that leap. IMO, it is completely plausible that he was reaching for his phone. And if I'm not convinced GZ was reaching for his gun, why would his own father be?

JMO, OMO, and :moo:
 
leslie1960 said:
I believe that the gun was drawn and out before the wrestling ensued (IMO). I am trying to imagine the context under which one might say, "Okay, you got it." What if GZ had gained control of the weapon, TM recognized it, and was perhaps trying to get away at that point? He tells GZ, "Okay, you got it" (you have the gun, you can have it, I'm done, you win).

But there's that pesky little detail of those horrific, blood-curdling screams. TM has surrendered: "Okay, you got it." Perhaps TM realizes, at that point, that GZ is going to shoot him anyway.

Just a possible scenario, MOO, and all that.
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That could be it. I just can't imagine Trayvon saying "Okay, you got it." What the heck does that mean? It doesn't sound like something any teenager would say, or something that anyone would say right after they were shot. He is not making any sense to me. I think GZ is not as good of a liar as he thinks he is. He needs to go to the Casey Anthony School of Liars and get better trained. Sheesh.
 
cityslick said:
BBM

Case closed, why would GZ's father lie for his son? Why would GZ's father say things that paint his son in a better light, even if GZ himself never told him this?
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Case closed for me! It doesn't have to be case closed for anyone else, it's my opinion that this right here erases any form of SYG defense George had that night.

Parents lie every day for their children... some do it a lot more than others. Sometimes to the point where it is criminal.

MOO
 
LolaMoon08 said:
Yup... sure have! But, they were told this directly from George Zimmerman's father. George's father was there for the walk-through. He knows what happened, right? Why would George Zimmerman's father tell them that Trayvon seen the gun as George was "reaching for" his phone? To make it look better for his son. He knows his son was reaching for that gun.

These are also George's "friends." Why would they say something like that if George's father didn't say it?

MOO
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BBM.

Maybe he's speculating like the rest of us.
 
LolaMoon08 said:
That does it for me... George Zimmerman "reaches for" --- and the gun is seen by Trayvon -- so I can only come to the conclusion that Trayvon thought he was reaching for the gun (which I believe he was anyways) and that right there, IMO, completely erases any SYG defense!

The minute he showed that gun in any threatening manner (which reaching for -- is threatening) he's done!

MOO
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I totally agree.....

So here we have a guy following Tray, Tray walks fast, run, whatever, to get away from this guy...the guy still catches up with him and for whatever reason he reaches in his waistband and Tray began to fight....fight for his life...is that correct?

If that is correct then Tray was STANDING HIS GROUND for sure.

JMO
 
LolaMoon08 said:
Yup... sure have! But, they were told this directly from George Zimmerman's father. George's father was there for the walk-through. He knows what happened, right? Why would George Zimmerman's father tell them that Trayvon seen the gun as George was "reaching for" his phone? To make it look better for his son. He knows his son was reaching for that gun.

These are also George's "friends." Why would they say something like that if George's father didn't say it?

MOO
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Exactly. And I don't know about you, but if someone confronted me, and there was a phone and a gun on them, I would not assume they were reaching for a phone, KWIM? And if I only saw the gun, I would believe that person was reaching for it. I don't know if Trayvon ever even saw GZ's cellphone, but I'm pretty sure he saw that gun. I don't blame TM if GZ's act of reaching for something made TM panic, thinking GZ was going for the gun.
 
And I would also like to point out that I have said from the very beginning that I believed there was no physical altercation until George brought that gun out. I have always thought George was guilty of killing Trayvon and I never did believe it was self-defense. I believe Trayvon was defending himself against a man with a gun.

MOO
 
LolaMoon08 said:
Case closed for me! It doesn't have to be case closed for anyone else, it's my opinion that this right here erases any form of SYG defense George had that night.

Parents lie every day for their children... some do it a lot more than others. Sometimes to the point where it is criminal.

MOO
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I agree. Which is why I'd prefer to see some hard evidence, testimony about details from GZ himself, from detectives who testify at trial, to know exactly what happened. All of this hearsay is noise.
 
:fence:
Phoenixfla said:
Sorry - Still not following you. Why would LE want GZ to be let go? What would they gain from letting him go?
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Because Trayvon was perceived as a low life, probably a drug user and burglar even if no record, because he was one of those *advertiser censored** holes that always got away. And GZ was an upstanding citizen that volunteered for neighborhood watch. The past performance of this LE unit kind of points in that direction.
They were not gonna waste any monies on a low life for a trial when it could be conveniently closed as a SYG incident. Just economics, my friend.
 
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