WARNING:GRAPHIC PHOTOS Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox appeals conviction #8

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otto said:
On the one hand, we have director of print identity in the Rome forensic police division testifying about the footprints at the crime scene:

"Bloody and luminol-enhanced footprints left in the villa where Meredith Kercher was murdered are those of Raffaele Sollecito, Amanda Knox and Rudy Guede, the director of print identity in the Rome forensic police division testified Saturday.

...

But the next witness, another print expert, again confirmed Rinaldi's testimony, that the print, which only shows the top half of the foot, matches the precise characteristics of Sollecito's foot."

http://www.seattlepi.com/local/406059_knox09.html

What are the credentials of those that disagree with those conclusions and on what are they basing those opinions (evidence, or photos from the internet)?
Click to expand...

Proper inspection of the bathmat clearly shows that the tip of the second toe blended with the top of the big toe. Rinaldi measured the big toe including the top of the second toe. This error caused the width of the toe to measure 30mm. Rinaldi did not observe that the second toe had blended in with the big toe on the bathmat. The nature of the absorbent carpet may have lead to natural spreading of blood. This print was made is bloody water, not pure blood. This would have attributed to the spreading of the liquid as it was absorbed into the rug. This error in measurement is crucial because the prosecution based the compatibility of Raffaele’s foot on the width of his big toe.


Raffaele’s big toe measured 30mm and is therefore incompatible with the measured foot on the bathmat. When measured correctly, the print on the bathmat measured 24.8mm

http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/footprints-03.html
 
Nova said:
I can only speculate, but Hendry may not address the broken windows because we don't seem to have many photos of the resulting disarray and broken glass. Perhaps they exist, but I haven't seen them, nor have I heard people refer to much in the way of photographic evidence.

I don't know that Hendry "ignores" the 40 injuries in his reconstruction so much as he assumes they resulted from what he describes as a life-and-death struggle between MK and her (lone) assailant.

I don't know that Hendry has every detail right, but one thing that gives his account credibility (to me, at least) is that he portrays MK's final minutes as a very violent affair. By contrast, the prosecution wants me to believe there were four people and two knifes in that room and MK was wounded 40 times, yet the whole event was as stately as a gavotte!

ETA: is there a handy list of MK's injuries available on line? Obviously it makes a difference whether most were knife cuts or most were bruises.
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Part of the problem was that ILE did not analyze this area properly. There are very few photos of this area most from a distance not up close. ILE did not bother to look at the ground below for fragments of glass

Yet I am suppose to believe that a rock made hit the shutter and bounced back. Nope not buying it. This was a simple break and enter
 
otto said:
On the one hand, we have director of print identity in the Rome forensic police division testifying about the footprints at the crime scene:

"Bloody and luminol-enhanced footprints left in the villa where Meredith Kercher was murdered are those of Raffaele Sollecito, Amanda Knox and Rudy Guede, the director of print identity in the Rome forensic police division testified Saturday.

...

But the next witness, another print expert, again confirmed Rinaldi's testimony, that the print, which only shows the top half of the foot, matches the precise characteristics of Sollecito's foot."

http://www.seattlepi.com/local/406059_knox09.html

What are the credentials of those that disagree with those conclusions and on what are they basing those opinions (evidence, or photos from the internet)?
Click to expand...

I am going to state once more for the record

The footprints from the luminol were not in blood

None of the bare footprints detected with luminol tested positive for Meredith's DNA.

WIth this information available to the prosecution, how could they possibly proceed with their accusation that the prints were made in Meredith's blood?

http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/footprints-01.html
 
otto said:
It looks a bit like a chicken and egg situation. How could he make any statements about the scene without seeing the crime scene photos? It looks like he received the photos in order to do an "accident recontruction" of the bedroom ... and it seems fairly obvious that Amanda's family provided those crime scene photos for distribution on the internet.
Any thoughts on how Hendry can draw conclusions about a blood smear on the side of a desk based on a photo taken at an angle?
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BBM

If you actually read what he says in his articles he did NOT GET THE PHOTOS FROM HER FAMILY

Italy more than co-operated by posting many of these photos in their newspapers etc or on the web

Please let us get our facts right

ETA He then got other photos from the defense with the condition that he publish whatever he found in his reconstruction whether it was detrimental to AK and RS or not
 
otto said:
Ballistics experts are, in my opinion, ideal for discussing projectiles. If the judge disallowed testimony, there must be a good reason. The rock was part of the staged break-in, so maybe there's nothing to say about the rock. Perhaps it had to first be demonstrated that it was thrown into the room, and that could not be established.

When you say that "Sollecito's consultant told the court last month" ... when was that?
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That was Massei's reasoning

He felt that a ballistics expert was not a rock throwing expert. It is in the Motivational Report
 
otto said:
On the one hand, we have director of print identity in the Rome forensic police division testifying about the footprints at the crime scene:

"Bloody and luminol-enhanced footprints left in the villa where Meredith Kercher was murdered are those of Raffaele Sollecito, Amanda Knox and Rudy Guede, the director of print identity in the Rome forensic police division testified Saturday.

...

But the next witness, another print expert, again confirmed Rinaldi's testimony, that the print, which only shows the top half of the foot, matches the precise characteristics of Sollecito's foot."

http://www.seattlepi.com/local/406059_knox09.html

What are the credentials of those that disagree with those conclusions and on what are they basing those opinions (evidence, or photos from the internet)?
Click to expand...

Lorenzo Rinaldi is the print director
 
There is a reason Italy ranks 2nd behind Turkey...think about it

ECHR

Human rights violations....Turkey barely edged out Italy out of 46 countries

Turkey topped the chart with 18.81 percent of all violation judgments, followed by Italy with 16.57 percent and Russia 6.34 percent. Within this timeframe, 2,295 judgments were entered for Turkey and only in 46 cases did the court find no violations. The most common human rights violation committed by Turkey was the denial of the right to a fair trial. Italy scored second with 2,021 judgments against it

http://ecohr.wordpress.com/2011/01/11/human-rights-violations-in-turkey/
 
otto said:
It seems to me that anyone directing the discussion to Hendry (for the last couple of weeks) is also directing the discussion towards the details of the murder. What "expert" are you refering to? The trial summary report clearly states that injuries are made from the left and from the right. Did someone hold Meredith on one side, stab her, then turn her around stab her again, turn her around, cut again ... and Meredith did nothing to defend herself? Or did someone stab her with the right hand, switch hands, stab her with the left hand, switch knives?

Or ??? Is the medical examiner also incapable of doing his job?
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Or maybe something that actually makes sense compared to a satanic drug fueled sex orgy.
 
Allusonz said:
Proper inspection of the bathmat clearly shows that the tip of the second toe blended with the top of the big toe. Rinaldi measured the big toe including the top of the second toe. This error caused the width of the toe to measure 30mm. Rinaldi did not observe that the second toe had blended in with the big toe on the bathmat. The nature of the absorbent carpet may have lead to natural spreading of blood. This print was made is bloody water, not pure blood. This would have attributed to the spreading of the liquid as it was absorbed into the rug. This error in measurement is crucial because the prosecution based the compatibility of Raffaele’s foot on the width of his big toe.


Raffaele’s big toe measured 30mm and is therefore incompatible with the measured foot on the bathmat. When measured correctly, the print on the bathmat measured 24.8mm

http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/footprints-03.html
Click to expand...
This is a total nonsense argument IMO. The big toe print was proven to be 30mm in court by Rinaldi. There was no 2nd toe print since RS has a hammer toe. Professor Vinci tried to cut off a part of RS's big toe and claimed it was a 2nd toe.

The judges report is rather clear about the effords of Vinci. They call it "totally weak and unsatisfactory".

Besides that there are several other characteristics (metatarsus, plantar arch) of the footprint which all point in the direction of RS and exclude RG. Of course the defense tried to claim the footprint was RG's but unfortunately for the defense he has his 2nd toe quite far from his big toe. So the 'fun' part of Vinci's analyses is implying that even though RG's 2nd toe is far apart from his big toe. In this case RG merged his big toe and 2nd toe together and in some mystical way the outline of a big toe emerges with the exact measurements of RS's big toe. It is magic :)

IMO there is no photoshopper in the world who can make this damning evidence go away in any court in the world.
 
Allusonz said:
Or maybe something that actually makes sense compared to a satanic drug fueled sex orgy.
Click to expand...
Did he actually ever say 'satanic' or was that just something the tabloids made up? The timing of the murder was on the 'Day of the Dead' and the day after Halloween. He would be a bad prosecutor had he not investigated that. What is the point of bashing this guy continuously anyway? Just because he tapped a phone some years ago? Do you have any idea how many cases he handled in his career? Do you even realize that there are 2 prosecutors? IMO this is such a low blow to attack the prosecutor where it is the judges that decide.
 
Allusonz said:
BBM

If you actually read what he says in his articles he did NOT GET THE PHOTOS FROM HER FAMILY

Italy more than co-operated by posting many of these photos in their newspapers etc or on the web

Please let us get our facts right

ETA He then got other photos from the defense with the condition that he publish whatever he found in his reconstruction whether it was detrimental to AK and RS or not
Click to expand...

Some of the images were posted in the news and the Kercher family was very upset about it. We know that Amanda's lawyers have publicly tried to distance themselves from the media activites that have been undertaken by the Knox family. I would be very surprised to learn that Amanda or Raffaele's lawyer gave crime scene photos to Ron Hendry. I suspect that they came directly from Amanda's family, and not someone like Raffaele's lawyer.

There have been discussions about who released documents, such as Amanda's diary, to media. This appears to be another example of court documents being released to media most likely through Amanda's family. I suspect that they did not clear this decision with the victim's family. But, I may be wrong, and it may be true that Amanda and Raffaele's lawyers have decided to retry the case in the US media ... even though they are in the middle of an appeal and Raffaele's lawyers strenuously objected to the release of the movie.
 
Allusonz said:
There is a reason Italy ranks 2nd behind Turkey...think about it

ECHR

Human rights violations....Turkey barely edged out Italy out of 46 countries

Turkey topped the chart with 18.81 percent of all violation judgments, followed by Italy with 16.57 percent and Russia 6.34 percent. Within this timeframe, 2,295 judgments were entered for Turkey and only in 46 cases did the court find no violations. The most common human rights violation committed by Turkey was the denial of the right to a fair trial. Italy scored second with 2,021 judgments against it

http://ecohr.wordpress.com/2011/01/11/human-rights-violations-in-turkey/
Click to expand...

That's quite interesting. I would have thought a place like Bosnia, that practiced genocide, would have more human rights violations than a place like Italy.

This document gives different information: http://www.echr.coe.int/NR/rdonlyre...D/0/FAITS_CHIFFRES_EN_JAN2011_VERSION_WEB.pdf
 
Allusonz said:
I am going to state once more for the record

The footprints from the luminol were not in blood

None of the bare footprints detected with luminol tested positive for Meredith's DNA.

WIth this information available to the prosecution, how could they possibly proceed with their accusation that the prints were made in Meredith's blood?

http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/footprints-01.html
Click to expand...

I posted a number of quotes from the Trial Summary indicating that a print was made in haematic substance. That's blood. If it wasn't Meredith's blood, who else was bleeding so much that it was possible to leave a bloody footprint in the hallway?
 
sherlockh said:
Did he actually ever say 'satanic' or was that just something the tabloids made up? The timing of the murder was on the 'Day of the Dead' and the day after Halloween. He would be a bad prosecutor had he not investigated that. What is the point of bashing this guy continuously anyway? Just because he tapped a phone some years ago? Do you have any idea how many cases he handled in his career? Do you even realize that there are 2 prosecutors? IMO this is such a low blow to attack the prosecutor where it is the judges that decide.
Click to expand...

I can't remember anymore whether the satanic twist was added by the media, or Douglas Preston. Preston was pretty upset with Mignini after he was detained and questioned for interfering with a police investigation. That was in connection with the Monster of Florence, who murdered young couples in the hills. Preston quickly involved himself with Meredith's case by suggesting that the prosecutor was chasing a satanic connection in the Monster of Florence and he was still chasing demons while persecuting Knox.
 
Allusonz said:
She was killed and raped, thus I believe anyone can surmise where a number of her injuries were.

<modsnip> It is my belief that some parts were not made public as we simply do not need to know!

Thus I must ask what the real intent here is? Is it to see how many times the number of injuries to her can be mentioned? Or is it to try and determine what really happened.

Just to clarify and for the record there were 23 injuries to MK. Her throat was slashed and she asphyxiated on her own blood within minutes this is per Dr. Lalli whom did the autopsy

There was a reason this was done in chambers .........think about it

Murdered British student Meredith Kercher had at least 23 separate injuries on her body

The evidence was disclosed as jurors in the murder trial of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito were shown graphic photographs and video footage of the post mortem on Ms Kercher's body

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...student-Meredith-Kercher-had-23-injuries.html

The autopsy results concluded that it took her several minutes to die, as she inhaled her own blood. Her hyoid bone was broken, her superior thyroid artery had been severed by a stab wound, her lungs filled with blood causing asphyxiation and she had suffered bruising to her vagina and perineum

Murdered British student Meredith Kercher had at least 23 separate injuries on her body

The evidence was disclosed as jurors in the murder trial of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito were shown graphic photographs and video footage of the post mortem on Ms Kercher's body

The forensic pathologist, Dr. Lalli, initially concluded that the pattern of bruises, defensive wounds/cuts, and stab wounds could not indicate whether one or multiple attackers had been present. There were larger cuts on her right hand, possibly as defensive wounds (with no one restraining her right hand), but only small cuts on her left hand. Both hands were covered in blood, as if holding her neck after it was stabbed. Dr. Lalli concluded that strangulation was attempted before the stab wounds were made

http://toestraighteners.com/murder-of-meredith-kercher/


Her hyoid bone was broken, her superior thyroid artery had been severed by a stab wound

http://toestraighteners.com/murder-of-meredith-kercher/
Click to expand...

BBM
I don't think the discussion would have gone in this direction if not for the links to Ron Hendry's opinion, where he uses very graphic crime scene photos to present a detailed theory of the actual attack (a play by play description). I don't understand why you posted the link several times and directed people to this opinion only to then ask what the intent is. I left this discussion alone for a few weeks, hoping that it would go away, but it didn't. Hendry has been described as a "forensic expert", qualified to determine exactly what happened on the night Meredith was murdered. I completely disagree, and gave reasons. Unfortunately, it was not possible to argue his points without referencing his information. Hendry's opinion seems to selectively include and omit evidence in order to argue his belief that Rudy acted alone.
 
What interests me at this point is what the Knox family is thinking about the appeal process. I recall Edda saying, prior to the original verdict, that everything is decided in appeal in Italy, and that the trial and verdict don't really mean that much. Here we are in the appeal process, the point that Edda and Curt believed would be the real trial. I wonder if they are satisfied with the process of appeal, where all but three points were rejected by the court.
 
otto said:
I posted a number of quotes from the Trial Summary indicating that a print was made in haematic substance. That's blood. If it wasn't Meredith's blood, who else was bleeding so much that it was possible to leave a bloody footprint in the hallway?
Click to expand...
They considered it most likely that the prints were made in a haematic substance (blood). One luminol footprint had DNA in it. DNA means that there was a biological substance and a biological substance reacting to luminol means blood (same goes for the spot in Filomena's room). Besides that of course in the context of the crime scene all these luminol findings are considered blood.

The statement that these luminol footprints are not in blood is false. A negative blood test does indeed not confirm it is blood but also not exclude it. Considering the alternatives that react to luminol they considered it blood. There is a room full of blood, a bloody footprint in the bathroom subscribed to RS, and a luminol footprint in the hallway subscribed to RS. Assuming the luminol findings in several different rooms were from a soil event that AK and her boyfriend of one week don't remember and can't explain does not make any sense IMO. The court also considered fruit juice and other substances that could react to luminol but again that this happened in several different rooms is pretty unlikely. Then they considered bleach but nobody could explain such a cleaning event to have happened, there was no smell of bleach and you would expect more prints if that had been the case.

I find these explanations simple and logical, where the defense didn't even try to come up with an alternative scenario. They simply stated that it could have been other substances besides blood and didn't explain any further, although I have to admit that the bathmat shuffle story made up by AK was pretty clever but unfortunately for her that wasn't accepted.
 
That is what the report concludes. Still, in order to argue that Rudy acted alone, we have to believe that the Raffaele and Amanda bare foot prints were made with fruit juice, that Rudy's running shoe prints indicate he ran straight from Meredith's room out the front door - but then he came back in, removed his shoes, stepped in the blood, bounced into the bathroom, left a print, put his shoes back on, and floated out of the cottage.
 
otto said:
The police did not start with a theory from the prosecution. In the days shortly after the murder, no one knew what to think. The lies that Knox and Sollecito told drew attention to themselves.

Do I understand correctly that you reject all information presented and summarized in the trial?
Click to expand...

BBM: Actually, you'll find a quote some pages back where the lead investigator says he knew AK was guilty from the way she moved her hips, not because she lied.

In fact, ILE arrested AK based on her statement that she could imagine being present with PL at MK's murder. ILE assumed AK was telling the truth and arrested her based on that assumption, not because she lied.

No, I don't reject all trial testimony. I just don't assume anything to be fact just because somebody said it in a courtroom. As I intimated above, jurors in New York and California are specifically cautioned that witnesses sometimes lie and that everyone (including ILE) has his or her biases which affect how s/he perceives the truth.
 
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