GUILTY Canada - Marie-France Comeau, 37, & Jessica Lloyd, 27, slain, Ont, 2009 & 2010 - #7

flipflop said:

The bolded statement makes sense to me. When he was dating his gf I believe he tried some weird things that scared off these girls. With his past growing up with a mother who ships him off to boarding school (it also mentioned in the book that holidays such as Christmas and Thanksgiving were spent at school) It makes me feel that he did not have a close and loving mother as many of us do. Together with his sadistic sexual needs and the hatred towards his mother (Im guessing from his cold past) he had a hate on for woman that was buried deep inside him. He went for a few years after his break up until the time he met and married his wife, his needs and hatred would have been festering inside him. We do not know when or for how long his nonexistant sexlife with his wife started (would be interesting to learn this) So again, another woman close to him has turned cold towards him for whatever reason. I wish his family would speak up...we could learn so much more about him.

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otto said:

I too have wondered why his wife was not more aware of what he was doing and what he had hidden under her nose, but in the context of his profession, it's not that difficult to understand. People in the military often have missions that are top secret. Spouses are not allowed to know where the military person is going or what they are doing. The spouse may hear something about it after the fact, but for the most part very little is shared. The spouse learns to respect that the military person has a part of their life where they cannot intrude. After many years of marriage, it's quite possible that Williams' wife simply did not snoop or interfere with his things. There were military duffle bags in the laundry area that were filled with stolen underwear. We wonder why his wife didn't open his duffle bags or packed boxes and look inside, but maybe, as a couple, they respected each others privacy and didn't snoop in boxes and bags that belonged to the other.

Recall that when his mother and brother attended a special function for Williams, others asked his wife where his mother and brother were staying during the visit. His wife had no idea ... claiming that was Williams' department. It seems that their lives were compartamentalized and his wife simply accepted that she only had some information ... after years of marriage, she simply accepted that he would tell her something if she needed to know.

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Hazel said:

Sorry otto, but have to tell you I totally disagree with you in this point.

Not knowing where the MIL and BIL were staying smacks of total lack of interest (and courtesy) on HER part. That has NOTHING to do with interfering with his work. Her not knowing is not his fault MOO.

IMHO, regardless of who was in charge of doing the hotel reservations or any other arrangements, the minimal thing a normal person would have done is ask them where they were staying, and if they were comfortable there. Of course, I know that if it had been me, I would have offered them my home to start with, but I guess this couple is not the norm. Still I find no excuse for her not knowing where MIL and BIL were staying.
"Where there's will, there's a way"

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flipflop said:

I wonder who invited his mother and brother to attend this ceremony. They had special seating as it was stated that they were placed behind RW's former secretary. It seems as though there was zero communication between RWand wife with Mother/brother (hence not knowing where or caring where they were staying. If RW invited them, was it to rub his success in their face, was it to show others that he had family? The way the wife spoke of them, it seems that she had no care in the world about them. I wonder why? Is she that cold of a person (just like RW's mother was said to be) or does it have to do with RW not speaking to them???? So many unanswered questions.

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Hazel said:

Sorry otto, but have to tell you I totally disagree with you in this point.

Not knowing where the MIL and BIL were staying smacks of total lack of interest (and courtesy) on HER part. That has NOTHING to do with interfering with his work. Her not knowing is not his fault MOO.

IMHO, regardless of who was in charge of doing the hotel reservations or any other arrangements, the minimal thing a normal person would have done is ask them where they were staying, and if they were comfortable there. Of course, I know that if it had been me, I would have offered them my home to start with, but I guess this couple is not the norm. Still I find no excuse for her not knowing where MIL and BIL were staying.
"Where there's will, there's a way"

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Wondergirl said:

The people that work at the Pen know if she is visiting or not.

Coded messages? Really. Wow.

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otto said:

It would be common courtesy for Williams' wife to invite his mother and brother to stay with them or to at least know where they were staying so they could get together outside of the official event, but she didn't know where they were staying. She said that it was her "husband's department". Based on that comment of hers, I got the impression that she had become accustomed to viewing many things in Williams life as private ... that some things were his department, others were their department. I suspect that she respected that privacy and separation of responsibilities, moreso because he was in the military and many of his activities could not be shared with her. I think this is also the reason she did not explore what was in his duffel bags (other women's underwear), or look through his boxed up things. I think that she trusted her husband and respected that there were things she should not know because of his job ... unfortunately, that also left her in the position where there were a lot of things she should have known but didn't.

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Hazel said:

You still cannot convince me otto I could accept that if she was a little girl, but what I have observed, when the woman is older, the relationship is more like mother-son relationship, not the other way around.

In my post I was actually ONLY addressing the "didn't know where they were staying" paragraph, as there are such things like phones, cellphones, e-mails, etc. a person can use in order to communicate with others. If she had wanted to contact them, she could have even asked an assistant at her work place to call them in the event she was too busy to do it herself.
Like I said: "when there's a will, there's a way"

I wont be commenting on the "left her in a position where there were a lot of things she should have known but didn't" because if I start, I could write a whole book, and I'm sure you don't want to get me started :floorlaugh:

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otto said:

He had a girlfriend in high school and another girlfriend (the woman from Japan) in University. No one that knew him in high school was willing to talk about him, many people didn't even remember him. After his Japanese girlfriend dropped him, he was reportedly without a girlfriend until he met his wife. His close friend was surprised to learn that he was getting married as he didn't know that Williams had a girlfriend. It seems that Williams was very private about girlfriends and they are very private about him.

What the experts said, according to the author, is that it's very likely that Williams tried out his inclination in sexual sadism early on with his partners. It's equally possible that that cost him his Japanese girlfriend and that he then learned to put on the brakes with other women. The author suggests that Williams may have begun fantasizing and developing fetishes about women's underwear as a teenager, possibly because he may have seen his mother half dressed too often. He seems to have lost control over his urges in 2007, which coincides with additional responsibilities at work and a concoction of prescription medication for a back injury (including prednisone).

Side effects of prednisone: "Prednisone may cause insomnia, mood changes, personality changes, euphoria, psychotic behavior, or severe depression. It may even worsen any existing emotional instability in some individuals."

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Hazel said:

:chillpill: We all have heard of "slow-release pills" and "sustained-release pills" but it's the first time I've ever heard of a pill with 'selective' timing to cause side effects :giggle:

How come he didn't show any "personality changes, euphoria, psychotic behaviour, severe depression, instability and moreso reduce inhibitions" at the work place? Everyone at work seem to agree that there was nothing different about his behaviour.

Why put the blame of his doings on a pill? I assume not all people who take that same pill start going around stealing pre-teen to adult women's underwear, trying them on, taking pictures and all the other disgusting things he did, not to mention rape, torture and murder.

Perhaps what the experts are trying to say is, the pill made him feel invencible, consequently, he started being careless and took more risks than in his younger years, Perhaps the pill made him 'act' more often than ever before. Probably when younger he committed murders/rapes only once or twice a year, but the pill made him lose control over himself and the new 'thrill' was committing his crimes closer and closer to home?


Who are the ones the experts say that could write the last chapter? They are ABSOLUTELY RIGHT!
Seems to me we need to learn to read 'between the lines' ...we already have most of the pieces of the puzzle ... don't be afraid to put them together.


.

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otto said:

I'm pretty sure that Williams had all of his problems before he became an adult. What we know is that he kept them in check until he was in his 40s. The question is: what changed at that time such that he either could not, or chose not to, control those demons anymore? That is explored in the book. One possibility is the pharmaceutical cocktail he was prescribed, another is the new pressures from work, and another is that he believed himself somewhat invincible given his position of power, or a combination of all.

As flipflop posted upthread, there seems to be a fairly linear escalation of crimes. If he already had experience with rape and murder, it would not fit with his pattern of increasing boldness as he transitioned from peeping to murder. The implication in the book is that he became bored with the crimes he committed and escalated from peeping to stealing underwear, to stealing underwear while a woman was in her shower, to stripping naked before entering homes, to scouting and stalking, then entering the homes where women were home and finally to sexual sadism first for 4 hours and then for 22 hours, the latter two resulting in murder.

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Hazel said:

"What we know is that he kept them in check until he was in his 40s."

We don't know that. Logic dictates that he didn't start in his forties....and by the way, who are "we"? Not me for sure.

If "we" know "that" because RW told 'us' so, would that make it true?

What is VERY obvious, is there is a strong movement to try 'sell' the public the belief that he only murdered twice....and why would that be?

One more murder and he will be considered a 'serious offender'...now that is something that is to be avoid at all costs....why?

Many reasons: questions would arise if he is found guilty of yet another murder. Think about it! Just think of how many articles we've read about how scared the force where he worked at were about how they were perceived by the public, trying to distance themselves from him? How many articles about there was no way for them to 'detect' anything? Not only them, but others who were close to him. Leaving this open for your imaginations.

BUT, the MOST IMPORTANT REASON, for not adding one more murder is.....
any guesses?

hints: Serious offender status equals ____

this link might help: http://www.parl.gc.ca/About/Parliament/LegislativeSummaries/bills_ls.asp?Language=E&ls=s6&Parl=40&Ses=3&source=library_prb

dotr asked something about the hiring of PR...do you think it hasn't been done?...too many interests at stake don't ya think?
Seen 'them' working their 'magic' even here!

People need to think for themselves and never EVER allow to be told what to think, and not repeat other people's conclusions as their own.

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otto said:

Sorry ... we ... most likely those of us that read the book Camouflaged Killer. Interviews with several experts in the field (last section of the book) have indicated that Williams started rape and murder in his 40s. There may have been hints of what lay beneath the surface earlier in his life, but it's well argued that only two women were raped and murdered by Williams.

There were aspects of his crimes that show Williams was learning and perfecting what he did throughout his assaults and murders. When he started, he had no tools to restrain the women. In the third assault (murder), he had it sorted out. There's a clear pattern of escalation ... if you get a chance, read the book starting at page 301: Character Unbecoming. Experts in the fields of anthropology, medicine and psychology explain it far better than any layperson could. Wiliams is categorized and he's not the random guy that attacks women walking down the street ... he's a sexual sadist that spends time with his victims. He's also a fetishist ... needs women's underwear and photography in his sexual fantasies.

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Hazel said:

otto, how could anyone know for sure DW didn't start by being a peeping Tom in his younger years? he could have started watching his mother, neighbours? Then progressing to break and enters taking underwear. We know many of those 'panty' victims had absolutely no idea he had been in their bedrooms. So he could have been doing that when he lived in Toronto, while in university. We already know he had perfected the "art" of unlocking doors while in his twenties, don't we? Why do you think he was interested in learning that 'art'? You don't believe it was just to do pranks on his friends, we cannot be that naive.

He was living non the least in Toronto. How many unsolved rapes, break-ins, and murders are in the GTA? Too many to count.
There was a girl, whose name escapes me, who was raped in TO at the same time he was living there, and she was from Deep River.
Aren't there a few unsolved rapes and murders in the GTA?
In past threads, we discussed many of the cases where he could have been the culprit...I know you only joined this thread fairly recently, but some of us have been here since day one, since Jessica went missing.
There is a wealth of information here, and the chances that DW committed at least one of the murders/rapes that were discussed, are IMHO huge!

He could have evolved from being a common rapist and murderer to more sophisticated ways once simply raping and killing was no longer enough for him. This guy did NOT start by killing MFC. He has killed before, maybe even young boys, I am keeping an opened mind. For all we know he could be the Woodland killer, just to throw you an example...there are so many more possibilities, but am kinda short of time and besides all that has already been discussed here.

If I were to read a book about RW, I'll rather read one written by Paul Bernardo or someone who could REALLY know how a sadistic person like them both would think. I am interested on how their brains work, and so not interested on what they actually do. I can assure you, you will never catch me reading details of the crimes, what they did step by step to me is re-victimizing the victims.

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Hazel said:

This guy did NOT start by killing MFC. He has killed before, maybe even young boys, I am keeping an opened mind.

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Hazel said:

otto, how could anyone know for sure DW didn't start by being a peeping Tom in his younger years? he could have started watching his mother, neighbours? Then progressing to break and enters taking underwear. We know many of those 'panty' victims had absolutely no idea he had been in their bedrooms. So he could have been doing that when he lived in Toronto, while in university. We already know he had perfected the "art" of unlocking doors while in his twenties, don't we? Why do you think he was interested in learning that 'art'? You don't believe it was just to do pranks on his friends, we cannot be that naive.

He was living non the least in Toronto. How many unsolved rapes, break-ins, and murders are in the GTA? Too many to count.
There was a girl, whose name escapes me, who was raped in TO at the same time he was living there, and she was from Deep River.
Aren't there a few unsolved rapes and murders in the GTA?
In past threads, we discussed many of the cases where he could have been the culprit...I know you only joined this thread fairly recently, but some of us have been here since day one, since Jessica went missing.
There is a wealth of information here, and the chances that DW committed at least one of the murders/rapes that were discussed, are IMHO huge!

He could have evolved from being a common rapist and murderer to more sophisticated ways once simply raping and killing was no longer enough for him. This guy did NOT start by killing MFC. He has killed before, maybe even young boys, I am keeping an opened mind. For all we know he could be the Woodland killer, just to throw you an example...there are so many more possibilities, but am kinda short of time and besides all that has already been discussed here.

If I were to read a book about RW, I'll rather read one written by Paul Bernardo or someone who could REALLY know how a sadistic person like them both would think. I am interested on how their brains work, and so not interested on what they actually do. I can assure you, you will never catch me reading details of the crimes, what they did step by step to me is re-victimizing the victims.

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flipflop said:

BBM...the case you are speaking of was Margaret McWilliams, originally from Deep River, her case remains unsolved and RW was cleared as a suspect as his DNA did not match.

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