CANADA Canada - Audrey Gleave, 73, Ancaster ON, 30 Dec 2010 #5

No_Stone_Unturned said:

Hey dotr, I've often thought of "Twin Peaks" during the search for Audrey's killer. In the series, it was a very small town and in the end we learned that someone close killed Laura Palmer - her father.

Back to AG's killer, we know that LE and others have said:
- she KNEW her killer
- the killing was GRUESOME (which one person denied)
- there was NO FORCED ENTRY
- the dogs were quiet for some reason
- a local 'obvious' person was arrested and released

I now suspect that the killer KNEW that DLS would be immediately picked up and charged because, as I've said very often, God forbid anyone should be a tad different!

Did PK know of DLS?
How many times had DLS crossed paths with PK?
Did Mrs. PK know of DLS?
Did AG know of DLS and know that he was safe to have around?
How well did LV know (or know about) PK?
Was money a factor in obtaining a good photographer for PK's wedding?
Did AG pay for the photographer?

Finally, a question for the person who wrote "PK met AG at WP". I'm sorry, but I don't know what WP is! Kindly explain. Thanks.........

:twocents:

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Hi NS -- it is Windmill Power Equipment and ......... correction in Dundas, not Ancaster.

Thanks roseofsharon. But what on earth would a sixty-something woman be doing there?

LINK - http://www.phonepages.ca/ON/Dundas/Windmill-Power-Equipment-Limited-b9665282

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ETA: For others who have poor memories (like me!) here's the info about how AG met PK:

LINK - http://www.thespec.com/news/local/article/594717--audrey-s-story-continues

Phil had met Audrey four years earlier, in 2006, when he was 18 and in first year at McMaster.

He used to work at Windmill Power Equipment in Dundas. Audrey frequented the place and let it be known she needed someone to help her around her property. Phil gave it a shot. Back then, before he got married, he lived with his parents in Brantford, just a five-minute drive away from Audrey's.

At first, he found it tough dropping by because she talked — a lot. The smallest job would take him several hours because she wanted to chat, educate him on all manner of things including the intricacies of the invasive garlic mustard plant.

But “Aud” grew on him. He came to enjoy her quirks, looked forward to the routine of helping with a small job and chatting.

The two of them shared a passion for science, although they didn't talk a lot about it.

Phil entered graduate studies in electrical and biomedical engineering at McMaster, working toward his doctorate. He had received a scholarship and been named valedictorian of his engineering class.

He had two papers published: one was called “Dynamic binary translation to a reconfigurable target for on-the-fly acceleration,” which involved applications for diagnostic imaging in medicine. He gave a bound copy of the paper to Audrey as a gift. She was delighted with the gesture and invited him over to talk about his work.

He received regular emails from Audrey, often at odd hours, at least 2,000 over the course of a few years — Maxine comics, educational articles and videos, corny jokes.


So, the K family does live very close to AG's house!

:twocents:

Woodland said:

Just a reminder that it is not stated in Audrey's Will that she wanted her remains buried in the pet cemetery where her previous pets are buried. Nothing regarding her remains are in the Will.

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Thanks Woodland, the news link does say "wishes" as opposed to including that desire in AG's will. Gee, I would have thought AG would have gotten a little kick if someone managed to do it anyway!

dotr said:

Thanks Woodland, the news link does say "wishes" as opposed to including that desire in AG's will. Gee, I would have thought AG would have gotten a little kick if someone managed to do it anyway!

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I wonder if someone did honor her wishes but never made that info public. It was reported that her ashes were scattered at a golf course, but she was friends with the vet who maintained the pet cemetery. It might not have been legal to bury human remains there but I'm thinking that if it's legal to scatter ashes at the golf course, it must be legal to scatter ashes in an animal cemetery.


http://www.thespec.com/news/local/article/596070--who-killed-audrey-gleave Quote:

L handled all the arrangements. She could not fulfil Audrey's request to bury her ashes in the pet cemetery beside two of her previous German shepherds — that is illegal in Ontario. Friends said the ashes were sprinkled on the golf course in Brantford instead.

2,000 emails from AG to PK over a period of 4 years -- 500 per year -- approx. 42 per month.ullhair:


:twocents::twocents::twocents::twocents::twocents:

I hear you dotr and TracyLynnS- a small urn with a few ashes buried where no one could see them - who would know? Some ashes sprinkled at the pet cemetery was certainly in order as well. I sprinkled some of my father in one of my gardens - it's difficult for anyone to notice.

Woodland said:

Wow, I missed that LV said bank statements were missing. This might give her an 'out' with her declaration that AG had a total worth of $50K aside from her house, however missing means take the death certificate to the bank (they are not handed out easily) and retrieve copies. Jmo.

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IIRC, LV said that she had to call around to find out about AG's accounts. Will try to find our original source for that.

Was rummaging around through some old articles, and this stood out to me this time around:

from:
http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/a...e-warn-public-after-horrific-killing-of-woman

But a couple of years ago,

Gleave asked for Ferguson’s email address, and after that she would occasionally pass on jokes, riddles and Internet links.

The last email Ferguson received from Gleave was on Monday night, when she passed on a link to a version of “Amazing Grace.”

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<bbm>

AG apparently sent emails to PK frequently, but to LF only "occasionally". Why were these two people (quite disparate in their online/cyber communications from AG) the only ones to receive the Amazing Grace email? Why, out of all AG's contacts, did she send only these two contacts that email ... one person that she contacted frequently and the other only occasionally or sporadically?

roseofsharon said:

2,000 emails from AG to PK over a period of 4 years -- 500 per year -- approx. 42 per month.ullhair:


:twocents::twocents::twocents::twocents::twocents:

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I think it was PK himself who told that to Jon Wells at the newspaper for the articles. Wonder if PK embellished the e-mail thing a bit. If so, why?:crush:anic::crush:

sillybilly said:

Was rummaging around through some old articles, and this stood out to me this time around:

from:
http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/a...e-warn-public-after-horrific-killing-of-woman

<bbm>

AG apparently sent emails to PK frequently, but to LF only "occasionally". Why were these two people (quite disparate in their online/cyber communications from AG) the only ones to receive the Amazing Grace email? Why, out of all AG's contacts, did she send only these two contacts that email ... one person that she contacted frequently and the other only occasionally or sporadically?

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Yes, some very good questions there sillybilly! cguru: Did the killer send the two e-mails, I'm wondering?

Again, to help people with poor memories like me:

LINK - http://www.thespec.com/news/local/article/594717--audrey-s-story-continues

After Christmas, she felt under the weather. Monday morning, Dec. 27, Audrey emailed Phil and declared she would make her Wednesday coffee meeting come hell or high water. Lynne Vanstone brought her soup.

Monday afternoon she loaded Togi and Schatze into the Camaro and visited veterinarian Dudley Collins in Ancaster to pick up vitamins for the German shepherds. She let the dogs run on his property as usual. She gave him a hug when she left, as she often did.

Later that day, at about 6 p.m., she emailed a friend, Linda. She forwarded Linda the same music video she had sent Phil that morning.

Just after 2 a.m. Wednesday, Dec. 29, a big male chocolate Labrador living on a property across the road from Audrey's barked wildly, although that was not entirely unusual for the dog. Later that morning, Audrey did not make her regular coffee gathering.

Just after midnight on Thursday, Dec. 30, fog hung in the darkness over the snow-covered ground. Then it turned to freezing fog, which, as Audrey would have known better than most, happens when water droplets supercool and freeze on contact with a surface. Later that morning, it rained.

Phil Kinsman spoke to a writer from The Spectator, relating his experience of what happened to him that morning. He had hesitated to talk about it with friends and classmates.

Everyone wanted to share a theory about the mystery, ask him what he knew. It bothered him. He wanted to talk about Audrey's life, not her death.

“Obviously, I want to see justice served but I don't need that to happen to have closure; I don't need to have a theory,” he said.

He agreed to meet the writer — at Williams, he suggested, the same coffee shop near McMaster that Audrey had frequented.

On the morning of Dec. 30, Phil said, he drove with his wife, Alex, from their apartment in west Hamilton to Quatrefoil, the restaurant where she worked. After dropping her off, he headed to Audrey's.

He turned his silver 2002 Hyundai Accent off Indian Trail into the driveway, past the small pond on the right and larger one on the left, and parked on the far side as he always did. He was bringing her some of her favourite cake. It was about 11 a.m.

He did not go to Audrey's front door. He always entered through the garage. He walked to the twin automatic garage doors outside.

He punched in the code on the keypad. The door rose. The Camaro was parked in its usual spot, both its doors closed.

That's when he saw her, he said, on the garage floor, lying on her back.

Had Audrey slipped and fallen on some ice, he wondered? Up close, he saw that was not the case.

She wore her winter coat. Her comfortable stretch pants were ripped.

He went outside and called 911 on his cell. The person on the other end asked him to confirm she was dead. He returned to the garage, knelt down and felt for a pulse.


Two things bother me here:
1. The 911 people telling PK to check for a pulse!

2. Why on earth would PK meet the writer at Audrey's favourite coffee place?

:twocents:

(snipped by me) Excellent catch Tracey! and welcome to the board.

It might not have been legal to bury human remains there but I'm thinking that if it's legal to scatter ashes at the golf course, it must be legal to scatter ashes in an animal cemetery.


http://www.thespec.com/news/local/article/596070--who-killed-audrey-gleave Quote:

L handled all the arrangements. She could not fulfil Audrey's request to bury her ashes in the pet cemetery beside two of her previous German shepherds — that is illegal in Ontario. Friends said the ashes were sprinkled on the golf course in Brantford instead.[/QUOTE]

Thank-you sillybilly - Imo it's interesting that LV said something publicly about not being able to find what accounts LV had, however she may have worded it, considering someone also let it slip AG carried all her important papers with her at all times.

Funny enough, all LV had to do was take a death certificate to where she thought AG might have done her banking asking if AG had accounts there, as they were now LV's accounts. LV would have been entitled to have a complete portfolio and she could have gone to other banks asking what if any accounts AG had there just to be sure.

LV's lawyer could have advised her on this if LV was unsure so as to have complete info for the filing of the Will.

LilyMacBloom said:

(snipped by me) Excellent catch Tracey! and welcome to the board.

It might not have been legal to bury human remains there but I'm thinking that if it's legal to scatter ashes at the golf course, it must be legal to scatter ashes in an animal cemetery.


http://www.thespec.com/news/local/article/596070--who-killed-audrey-gleave Quote:

L handled all the arrangements. She could not fulfil Audrey's request to bury her ashes in the pet cemetery beside two of her previous German shepherds — that is illegal in Ontario. Friends said the ashes were sprinkled on the golf course in Brantford instead.

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[/QUOTE]


Scattering Cremated Ashes in Ontario
***********************************
The practice of scattering cremated ashes is an integral part of religious burial ceremonies for several faith communities in Ontario. Any individuals or families who wish to scatter the cremated ashes of their loved ones on Crown land and Crown land covered by water in Ontario can do so.

Individuals and families are permitted to scatter cremated ashes on unoccupied Crown land, and those Crown lands covered by water. There is no need to obtain government consent to scatter cremated ashes on or in such areas, which include provincial parks and conservation reserves, and the Great Lakes. Individuals wishing to scatter cremated ashes on private land, or private land covered by water, must obtain the owner’s consent.

In all cases of scattering cremated ashes, it is expected that ceremonies will be conducted in an environmentally responsible manner. Individuals and family members who scatter cremated ashes should ensure that only a handful of leaves and flowers – if they are a necessary component of the religious burial ceremony – accompany the scattering of these ashes.

Scattering Cremated Ashes in Ontario
***********************************
The practice of scattering cremated ashes is an integral part of religious burial ceremonies for several faith communities in Ontario. Any individuals or families who wish to scatter the cremated ashes of their loved ones on Crown land and Crown land covered by water in Ontario can do so.

Individuals and families are permitted to scatter cremated ashes on unoccupied Crown land, and those Crown lands covered by water. There is no need to obtain government consent to scatter cremated ashes on or in such areas, which include provincial parks and conservation reserves, and the Great Lakes. Individuals wishing to scatter cremated ashes on private land, or private land covered by water, must obtain the owner’s consent.

In all cases of scattering cremated ashes, it is expected that ceremonies will be conducted in an environmentally responsible manner. Individuals and family members who scatter cremated ashes should ensure that only a handful of leaves and flowers – if they are a necessary component of the religious burial ceremony – accompany the scattering of these ashes.[/QUOTE]

I have just spoken to a friend who has pets buried in the same animal cemetery as AG's pets and he confirmed the owner of this cemetery told him he could have his ashes buried with his pet if the costs involved in opening and closing the grave were covered. You state the ashes could be scattered with the owners permission and I am 99% certain this owner would have certainly approved. I don't think much thought was given to AG's ashes and I certainly don't agree they could be scattered on the goft course and not the cemetery. This stinks unless they were scattered at the cemetery without anyone knowing and this is possible. I hope this was the case.

amron said:

Scattering Cremated Ashes in Ontario
***********************************
The practice of scattering cremated ashes is an integral part of religious burial ceremonies for several faith communities in Ontario. Any individuals or families who wish to scatter the cremated ashes of their loved ones on Crown land and Crown land covered by water in Ontario can do so.

Individuals and families are permitted to scatter cremated ashes on unoccupied Crown land, and those Crown lands covered by water. There is no need to obtain government consent to scatter cremated ashes on or in such areas, which include provincial parks and conservation reserves, and the Great Lakes. Individuals wishing to scatter cremated ashes on private land, or private land covered by water, must obtain the owner’s consent.

In all cases of scattering cremated ashes, it is expected that ceremonies will be conducted in an environmentally responsible manner. Individuals and family members who scatter cremated ashes should ensure that only a handful of leaves and flowers – if they are a necessary component of the religious burial ceremony – accompany the scattering of these ashes.

Click to expand...

I have just spoken to a friend who has pets buried in the same animal cemetery as AG's pets and he confirmed the owner of this cemetery told him he could have his ashes buried with his pet if the costs involved in opening and closing the grave were covered. You state the ashes could be scattered with the owners permission and I am 99% certain this owner would have certainly approved. I don't think much thought was given to AG's ashes and I certainly don't agree they could be scattered on the goft course and not the cemetery. This stinks unless they were scattered at the cemetery without anyone knowing and this is possible. I hope this was the case.[/QUOTE]

amron said:

I have just spoken to a friend who has pets buried in the same animal cemetery as AG's pets and he confirmed the owner of this cemetery told him he could have his ashes buried with his pet if the costs involved in opening and closing the grave were covered. You state the ashes could be scattered with the owners permission and I am 99% certain this owner would have certainly approved. I don't think much thought was given to AG's ashes and I certainly don't agree they could be scattered on the goft course and not the cemetery. This stinks unless they were scattered at the cemetery without anyone knowing and this is possible. I hope this was the case.

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I also hope that AG's ashes are with her dear pets.

I also hope AG final wishes to be with her animals was able to be honored.

I have a question that's somewhat off topic but kind of ties in with AG's case. If anyone can point me in the right direction, I'd certainly appreciate it.

Officials originally arrested a man who looked like a good suspect, but apparently it turns out that he was not involved in AG's murder. Once this happens in a case, what are the chances of it eventually being successfully solved?

I remember reading about a different case where this happened and it was never solved. I'm wondering if there are statistics compiled anywhere regarding this kind of thing. Does it lessen the chances of solving a case if the original (wrong) suspect gets the most amount of attention or are the solve chances still the same as if the wrong suspect had never been arrested?

Link - http://www.thespec.com/news/local/article/596070--who-killed-audrey-gleave

Hi TracyLynnS. The article I've given here doens't really answer your question, however there IS a link somewhere here regarding how an inaccurate arrest not only wastes time, but it also lessons the chance of LE finding the killer.

I'll search around a bit to try to find it.

The good news is that there is a new detective leading the AG investigation. Hopefully, he'll solve the case.

I'm convinced that AG's killer KNEW that DLS would be picked up and accused of the crime. Such a cruel thing to do.

:twocents:

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ETA: This link might help:

http://news.ca.msn.com/ontario/hamilton/audrey’s-case-gets-colder

Part of the reason was Steve Hrab's inclination to pursue a prime suspect aggressively. Senior officers familiar with Hrab's career say this has been his pattern. And in some respects, David Scott looked good as a suspect.

Another motivating factor may have been perceived pressure from the public to arrest someone quickly.

Again, reading back:

from:
http://www.thespec.com/news/local/article/596070--who-killed-audrey-gleave

“Dave,” she told him, “You might want to think about getting a lawyer. You're under investigation for Ms. Audrey Gleave's murder.”

“Who?”

That was his first reaction: Who?

He got upset. He told Deb maybe he knows someone who had been out that way. Why don't the police come and talk to him, he might be able to help?

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<bbm>

So, who is this person David might know?