CANADA Canada - Audrey Gleave, 73, Ancaster ON, 30 Dec 2010 #2

http://swo.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/...-memorial-murder-110105/20110105/?hub=SWOHome
In this earlier link, AG is described as sociable and regularly goes to the hair salon.
"B C was Gleave's hairdresser for eleven years, she says "She was a beautiful person. She has left an impression on my life with her knowledge…We talked recipes and television shows, movies, mathematics, she helped me with my computer, whatever, you could talk so much."

eachandevery said:

Good question!

I wonder if the "something" the dogs might have been given, could've come in the form of an ordinary dog treat. If it looked normal and came from a trusted source, there would be no reason to decline or to be suspicious. Long shot, but did she happen to have a visitor who was welcomed into the home and just happened to bring special treats for the dogs?

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She had gone to the vet's to pick up some vitamins for the dogs.

There is conflicting info about the timing of this visit though. Earlier news reports implied it was before Christmas, but Jon Wells' series said it was Monday the 27th ...while the timeline graphic with that same Spec series said it was the 28th! I find that last date difficult to believe, because then that would have been the last time AG communicated with anyone.

dotr said:

http://swo.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/...-memorial-murder-110105/20110105/?hub=SWOHome
In this earlier link, AG is described as sociable and regularly goes to the hair salon.
"B C was Gleave's hairdresser for eleven years, she says "She was a beautiful person. She has left an impression on my life with her knowledge…We talked recipes and television shows, movies, mathematics, she helped me with my computer, whatever, you could talk so much."

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No disrespect to FL, however, he reports that AG's body was found by a family member. We know this is not factual, so how are we to know what is reported by any media source is accurate! imo

I hope LE has checked with the Teachers Credit Union to determine if AG received paper statements or was strictly on internet banking. IF she received paper statements, then it is highly suspicious that they were not found with all her other important papers (and in which case I might consider the "sexual component" to be a red herring).

In one of the instalments last week, it was said that AG was found wearing her winter coat and her comfortable stretch pants were ripped. PK told us AG had her sneakers on. Sorry to be graphic, but IMO, this is hard to put together with a viscious stabbing and bludgeoning, combined with a sexual component, unless the "sexual component" was somewhat limited to stabbing through her ripped pants. Again, that leads me to think that possibly that would be done to make it appear to have been sexually motivated.

Given AG's profession and what should have been a good retirement income, I also find it strange that AG didn't have a lot of $$ stashed away somewhere (ye olde sock under the bed??).

sillybilly said:

Given AG's profession and what should have been a good retirement income, I also find it strange that AG didn't have a lot of $$ stashed away somewhere (ye olde sock under the bed??).

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Maybe she was one of those people who buried their money in the back yard..

When you get up in years you sometimes do strange things.
So My daughter tells me.....

Maxfactor mentioned b4 about a possible connection between the work boots in the SV murder and the drywall saw that LE may have bagged at AG's. I wonder if there was any drywall work involved with the AG's new wall oven.

It's not exactly the type of thing one would use in a murder, unless they were familiar with it, and good with it. I bet not many folks keep a drywall saw at home, so I wonder if AG did.

Also, is it possible the killer first saw both women in a coffee shop? Apparently there was a Tims right near SV's. And we know AG went to coffee shops. And a lot of construction folk go to coffee shops daily.

Dry wallers move around a lot, wherever the work takes them. A semi-nomadic life, that might suit a serial killer.

roseofsharon said:

Some people use this song at funerals, which gives me an eery feeling that the perp may have been the sender. Wondering, as AG was so private, would she have had her email contacts in her computer(s).

Also, did AG also send a note with the link or just the link. Was this link found in AG's favourites on her computer or was a search done for this song and on what date and what time.

Was Linda the only recipient of the email -- I thought PK also received it and a man from the coffee group. My memory isn't clear on this.

imo

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Once the bit about the Amazing Grace email was made public, I thought it was sent by the person who killed Audrey - and I still do. I associate it with death, and it creeps me out. Between the timing of the message (and its content, especially) and her death, coupled with this new knowledge that she always thought she would be murdered, well, it's just odd.

When I thought it was a random person who killed her, it was easy to start wondering about everything. At first, I thought her coffee meetup might have taken place at a Tim Hortons. Knowing that there's one with a truck stop practically next door to it, and that it didn't seem terribly far from her home, I started to think her murder could've somehow been tied to to that. Maybe it was someone who, for whatever reason, singled her out. Now, that thought just seems crazy to me. I never believed the man they took into custody was responsible for her murder. It was too convenient.

I'm baffled by this case. If Audrey felt she would end up murdered, it makes sense to me that she would carry important papers with her. I've been guilty of carrying important papers around with me (including my passport, just in case*), and it has always been out of concern that someone might break into my home and zero in on those documents. It doesn't make a lot/any sense, in retrospect.

* Terrible idea, by the way.

Copied from eachandevery:

Once the bit about the Amazing Grace email was made public, I thought it was sent by the person who killed Audrey - and I still do. I associate it with death, and it creeps me out. Between the timing of the message (and its content, especially) and her death, coupled with this new knowledge that she always thought she would be murdered, well, it's just odd.


I also feel that the song was sent by the killer. You know the song itself might be telling us something about the killer himself. Certainly, it's played at funerals but it's also a song/lyrics which recovering addicts (alcohol and other drugs) are drawn to:
"I once was lost but now I'm found"

Was the killer himself asking for help via Audrey's email? :twocents:

Secondly - I'm sure (I hope) that LE had the dogs checked by the vet for anything administered to them to keep them quiet. A blood test/urine test would show up substances given to them. It might even provide a time-line!

It appears AG had her own teeth, yet no mention of visits to her dentist or her family doctor.

Did she take any RX medications?

roseofsharon said:

It appears AG had her own teeth, yet no mention of visits to her dentist or her family doctor.

Did she take any RX medications?

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You see - all of this shoots down the recluse notion! I'm certain Audrey visited her dentist on a regular basis as we all do. Same for her GP - Audrey would have regular check-ups and (no doubt) some prescriptions were prescribed for her.

I'm beginning to think that the word recluse was used unfairly for Audrey. When I think of a recluse, I think of Howard Hughes and his rather famous hiding away from all people.:doorhide: To take this further, IF Audrey was truly a recluse she never would have visited LV for the lovely Christmas photo!!

NOTE: Teachers and retired teachers receive a yearly pocket-planner from the OSSTF/RTO. It's a small booklet which can easily fit into a purse or even can be left in the car's glove box (albeit, Camaros have small glove compartments but these booklets would easily fit in there.) I wonder if LE have retrieved Audrey's pocket planner which would have dental, medical, vet, etc. appointments written down.:dunno:

Oh and one more thing while I'm here - that's a good question about prescription meds. I wonder if Audrey was on prescription painkillers. It's fairly easy (so my doctor tells me) for 'the bad guys' to break into drug store computers to see who uses what. Having a full/recently filled bottle of painkillers would be a nice target for a drug seeker.:twocents:

I suspect that perps (especially with oxycontin addictions)keep an eye out for the elderly or disabled as they exit pharmacies, so they can steal their medication on the spot, or watch and follow the potential victim to rob later .

No_Stone_Unturned said:

Copied from eachandevery:

Once the bit about the Amazing Grace email was made public, I thought it was sent by the person who killed Audrey - and I still do. I associate it with death, and it creeps me out. Between the timing of the message (and its content, especially) and her death, coupled with this new knowledge that she always thought she would be murdered, well, it's just odd.


I also feel that the song was sent by the killer. You know the song itself might be telling us something about the killer himself. Certainly, it's played at funerals but it's also a song/lyrics which recovering addicts (alcohol and other drugs) are drawn to:
"I once was lost but now I'm found"

Was the killer himself asking for help via Audrey's email? :twocents:

Secondly - I'm sure (I hope) that LE had the dogs checked by the vet for anything administered to them to keep them quiet. A blood test/urine test would show up substances given to them. It might even provide a time-line!

Click to expand...

From what I understand, that e-mail was sent to two different people hours apart. Considering AG's privacy paranoia and her extensive knowledge of computers, I have to believe that her computer was password protected and possibly even her e-mail account.

I also understand that AG would only send e-mails to people one at a time, never to more than one recipient, for fear that people would see her other e-mail contacts. If the killer wanted to send out that e-mail, I'd think he/she would have sent it to all contacts at the same time, perhaps not knowing AG's aversion to doing this.



MOO

No_Stone_Unturned said:

You see - all of this shoots down the recluse notion! I'm certain Audrey visited her dentist on a regular basis as we all do. Same for her GP - Audrey would have regular check-ups and (no doubt) some prescriptions were prescribed for her.

I'm beginning to think that the word recluse was used unfairly for Audrey. When I think of a recluse, I think of Howard Hughes and his rather famous hiding away from all people.:doorhide: To take this further, IF Audrey was truly a recluse she never would have visited LV for the lovely Christmas photo!!

NOTE: Teachers and retired teacher receive a yearly pocket-planner from the OSSTF/RTO. It's a small booklet which can easily fit into a purse or even can be left in the car's glove box (albeit, Camaros have small glove compartments but these booklets would easily fit in there.) I wonder if LE have retrieved Audrey's pocket planner which would have dental, medical, vet, etc. appointments written down.:dunno:

Oh and one more thing while I'm here - that's a good question about prescription meds. I wonder if Audrey was on prescription painkillers. It's fairly easy (so my doctor tells me) for 'the bad guys' to break into drug store computers to see who uses what. Having a full/recently filled bottle of painkillers would be a nice target for a drug seeker.:twocents:

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I don't think AG was a recluse either. Just a single, retired woman with some strange habits.

She stayed in touch with old colleagues once a week. She would go out to have her hair done. She would go out to shop. She took her beloved dogs to the vet. She enjoyed driving her sports car around. She had a handyman whom she trusted. She had one good close woman friend whom she also trusted. These people were allowed to be part of her life on a more personal level.

She definitely appeared to have trust issues, and almost a paranoia about something, but I would not consider her a recluse at all. In fact, for 73 years old, she seemed to be pretty active. I believe it was PK who indicated that she hated feeling under the weather because she was getting "cabin fever".

MOO

sillybilly said:

I hope LE has checked with the Teachers Credit Union to determine if AG received paper statements or was strictly on internet banking. IF she received paper statements, then it is highly suspicious that they were not found with all her other important papers (and in which case I might consider the "sexual component" to ben a red herring).

In one of the instalments last week, it was said that AG was found wearing her winter coat and her comfortable stretch pants were ripped. PK told us AG had her sneakers on. Sorry to be graphic, but IMO, this is hard to put together with a viscious stabbing and bludgeoning, combined with a sexual component, unless the "sexual component" was somewhat limited to stabbing through her ripped pants. Again, that leads me to think that possibly that would be done to make it appear to have been sexually motivated.

Given AG's profession and what should have been a good retirement income, I also find it strange that AG didn't have a lot of $$ stashed away somewhere (ye olde sock under the bed??).

Click to expand...

If AG was found in the garage with a winter coat on, sneakers and stretch pants, I would think that she was just out there having a cigarette. As a garage smoker, I can tell you that's what I'd be wearing in the winter when I'm out having a cigarette. She wasn't lured out there by a strange noise or car alarm or she wouldn't have put on shoes and a coat before going out IMO. I'm assuming that she had an inside entry door in the garage so if she thought something was amiss, she'd probably just open the door to look in the garage and check it out. It also doesn't sound like clothing she would be wearing if she was going out somewhere, unless it was a quick run to the store or something. But then she would have had her purse and car keys with her.

Regarding the sexual component being a red herring. If she wasn't actually sexually assaulted, and someone wanted the crime to look like a sex crime, could it be possible that the person was actually female?

I don't think her net worth is all that unusual. I thought I read she had about 50K in savings. That's a pretty good amount for a retired person on a pension. That car she had is not inexpensive either. I wonder if she paid cash for it. Camaro's start at a base price of about 30K and can go as high as 50K. The insurance and gas would be pretty expensive too. Utilities and property tax on her home would also be rather high. That was quite a large piece of property.

I believe she was a member of a Golf & Country Club for some time as well. Fees for those are very expensive. She had two large dogs to maintain and a handyman that she paid also. She liked computers and had a couple of flat screen tv's too. She had just purchased a new convection oven.

This wasn't a woman who was extremely frugal with her money IMO.

MOO

Quoted from Kamille:

She definitely appeared to have trust issues, and almost a paranoia about something, but I would not consider her a recluse at all. In fact, for 73 years old, she seemed to be pretty active. I believe it was PK who indicated that she hated feeling under the weather because she was getting "cabin fever".


Indeed, Audrey was a happily active 73-year-old. To note:

- keeping up with the latest in technology (computers, night classes at Mohawk College, a new convection oven)
- coffee group every Wednesday
- visiting with LV and with PK
- taking care of her dogs with the vet
- the Camaro!!
- wanting a new mailbox and buying one

The list of Audrey's activities is extensive. So, where did the term recluse come from?

I'm sure this information is on here somewhere but I can't recall it. Does anyone know who or where AG had willed her estate too?

Kamille said:

I'm sure this information is on here somewhere but I can't recall it. Does anyone know who or where AG had willed her estate too?

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I believe Audrey had LV as her executrix and also the beneficiary of the will.

On a bit of a side note - I'm watching the Michael Jackson death trial and one of the lawyers just said that when the eyes are wide open the person died immediately.

Has LE ever mentioned this? I know that PK said he found Audrey with her eyes wide open, almost looking at him.

"Gleave left the club a few years ago but the pair remained friends, visiting once or twice a week. Gleave attended a lot of the V family gatherings, such as Thanksgiving, Christmas and Easter.

V said she last saw Gleave Dec. 27.

"She was here Boxing Day but was feeling under-the-weather," she said.

"I took some soup out to her on Monday morning and that was the last time I saw her."


Va said she was told by police investigators that Gleave had sent an e-mail to a friend on the night of Dec. 27.
Just wanted this info reposted for posterity.
http://www.brantfordexpositor.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=2913

"She was an eccentric, eclectic individual and very private," Vanstone said. "Private in a very big way.

"All of the times I visited her, I think I was only in her house once.

"Usually, we sat on a bench outside the house where we would talk."

Va said that Gleave always worried about strangers getting her e-mail address.

"She said that Gleave was so private that she never mentioned that she had another friend in Brantford who lived in the same neighbourhood as V"



"She was very much a recluse especially in the last few years".

"She loved to talk about recipes, computers, cars, animals, Suduko, TV programs and other mind-boggling things that were over my head. She was unique, giving and a stickler for being on time."

Among Gleave's friends were members of her Wednesday morning coffee group of retired teachers, V said.

Gleave was an avid golfer with many golfing buddies, V said.

Gleave lived for her two German Shepherds, her shopping trips to Costco (her favourite store) and summer drives in her racy Chevy Camaro, she added.

"She loved her dogs but I never really trusted them," V said. "They were always kind of roaming around when I was there and when we sat and talked I didn't dare get up suddenly or make any quick movements."
(Although this opinion seems to have been formed after only one visit- so I conclude that was why there was not another..)Also wondering about the fear of strangers getting her email.Could Ag be connected to a celebrity or fearful of organized crime?

Also check comment 14 for unverified info about dogs.

No_Stone_Unturned said:

I believe Audrey had LV as her executrix and also the beneficiary of the will.

On a bit of a side note - I'm watching the Michael Jackson death trial and one of the lawyers just said that when the eyes are wide open the person died immediately.

Has LE ever mentioned this? I know that PK said he found Audrey with her eyes wide open, almost looking at him.

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I don't think that LV was the beneficiary of AG's will for some reason. PK actually just mentioned in his last post that she was questioned when she bought a new car about where the money came from.

For some reason I was thinking that AG left her estate to an animal charity? Does anyone else remember this?

Perhaps PK can answer this question for me.