IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #26

Status
Not open for further replies.
The quote I posted was straight from the article. I went back to listen to the video. The author has quoted him verbatim from the video so I don't know where you get the idea the autor is misquoting him. What is your source that says the quote is "Shoeless and intoxicated"? So, unless you are DR, DR's attorney or the camera person, how would you know what the context was and if it was edited? I don't see how DR's statement of what happened that night is considered hearsay but JR's is considered not hearsay. They are both first hand and their opinion.

I had to listen again, listening for "shoeless" instead of "she was" and I'm pretty sure it's "shoeless."
 
I had to listen again, listening for "shoeless" instead of "she was" and I'm pretty sure it's "shoeless."
He does say "shoeless and intoxicated". The problem is that we hear him say that mid-sentence and don't know what words preceded "shoeless and intoxicated". Did he say, " I heard she was..."? Or, "when I last saw her, she was..." Without knowing the answer, I can't put much stock in this part of his statement. JMO
 
I'm not doing a very good job of getting my point across. Not the first time, lol. :crazy: It's not the content of what DR said, nor is it a question of whether it's original or hearsay, it's the fact that he said it publicly. Who else among Lauren's friends outed her publicly? HT. Anyone else? I am reminded of the rumor that DR and HT were together that night.

Maybe they're just too young to know how to communicate sensitive info; maybe they have a shared motive for casting Lauren in a negative light. What might that motive be?
 
I'm not doing a very good job of getting my point across. Not the first time, lol. :crazy: It's not the content of what DR said, nor is it a question of whether it's original or hearsay, it's the fact that he said it publicly. Who else among Lauren's friends outed her publicly? HT. Anyone else? I am reminded of the rumor that DR and HT were together that night.

Maybe they're just too young to know how to communicate sensitive info; maybe they have a shared motive for casting Lauren in a negative light. What might that motive be?

I suppose the most logical motive would be to protect themselves or someone they're both close to. It might be to suggest that being "shoeless" and "intoxicated" rests on LS alone. I agree we can't determine the context, but we know that DR was with LS at the beginning of the night, and that she supposedly tried to contact him at the end of it (doubtful, I know). He's kind of like a set of bookends or parentheses, in that respect, which is what makes his words the most interesting to me.
 
I suppose the most logical motive would be to protect themselves or someone they're both close to. It might be to suggest that being "shoeless" and "intoxicated" rests on LS alone. I agree we can't determine the context, but we know that DR was with LS at the beginning of the night, and that she supposedly tried to contact him at the end of it (doubtful, I know). He's kind of like a set of bookends or parentheses, in that respect, which is what makes his words the most interesting to me.

Well said and very effective metaphors, Keylime. I agree about the possibility that they're protecting someone/themselves.

Reading your post made me remember questions people have had about why Lauren didn't go to her apartment when she and CR returned to Smallwood. You may have asked this. And it's been either rumored or questioned whether she might have tried to get into the apartment but was prevented from doing so.

(I'm just sort of looking at this anew, and yes, I realize it's based on just a shred of new info.)
 
Well said and very effective metaphors, Keylime. I agree about the possibility that they're protecting someone/themselves.

Reading your post made me remember questions people have had about why Lauren didn't go to her apartment when she and CR returned to Smallwood. You may have asked this. And it's been either rumored or questioned whether she might have tried to get into the apartment but was prevented from doing so.

(I'm just sort of looking at this anew, and yes, I realize it's based on just a shred of new info.)

I get the impression that HT wasn't crazy about CR, so I don't see her protecting him. IDK about DR/CR. I'd see them protecting themselves, JR, or even a group over CR ... though I could see MB and JR protecting CR. There could be more than one level of "protection" going on, i.e., JR protecting CR while DR and HT protect JR. IDK. I wonder if DR still has contact with the 5 North guys?

I'm starting to forget what I've asked re: SW, sadly :waitasec:. At this point, I wonder why they went back to SW in the first place ... $$$, shoes, to meet somebody? The fact that CR wasn't welcome in more ways than one may have influenced her not entering the apartment ... though I also don't get why she followed him out (so wish she hadn't).
 
Longtime reader, first time poster...but with respect to this conversation on DR, do we know why he is not considered a top POI?

While there are reasons to be suspicious of others' stories, if we believe them for a moment, doesn't DR deserve a look?

If it's true he was one in the altercation with CR at Smallwood, it shows he has a predisposition to violence.
If LS left with CR immediately after, it could be that she sided with CR after that altercation and felt the need to defend him.
If LS did call DR at 415 as claimed, is it possible she was calling not for a ride, but to confront DR for assaulting CR?
Lastly, if it's true LS walked east and turned the corner rather than going back down the alley, is it possible she was going to DR's (right direction) to confront him face to face? If she did, we already know DR has a bit of a violent tendency. :(

Certainly other POI stories are quite shady, but not sure if this also doesn't warrant conversation.

Thoughts?
 
If it's true [DR] was one in the altercation with CR at Smallwood...[snipped]

Hi Poppyseed, welcome!

DR went out with Lauren that night, but was not involved in the altercation. The person who punched CR is (allegedly) ZO.

My guess is that given the security at Smallwood, it's clear when DR came home that night, which is why he was never under very much suspicion.
 
Thanks, Abby. My mistake and confusing myself on initials at an early time. You're right, it was DR that was supposedly called, but ZO in the altercation and ZO's apartment that would have been on the way if she truly left the way JR says. So, change that earlier thought... What if LS was going to confront ZO for the altercation with CR? What if she tried calling DR for help to confront ZO, but when she couldn't reach him, decided to go alone to ZO? And, then of course as you corrected me (it's not DR, my apologies), it's ZO that may have a temper...

So, correcting that scenario, thoughts?
 
Longtime reader, first time poster...but with respect to this conversation on DR, do we know why he is not considered a top POI?

While there are reasons to be suspicious of others' stories, if we believe them for a moment, doesn't DR deserve a look?

If it's true he was one in the altercation with CR at Smallwood, it shows he has a predisposition to violence.
If LS left with CR immediately after, it could be that she sided with CR after that altercation and felt the need to defend him.
If LS did call DR at 415 as claimed, is it possible she was calling not for a ride, but to confront DR for assaulting CR?
Lastly, if it's true LS walked east and turned the corner rather than going back down the alley, is it possible she was going to DR's (right direction) to confront him face to face? If she did, we already know DR has a bit of a violent tendency. :(

Certainly other POI stories are quite shady, but not sure if this also doesn't warrant conversation.

Thoughts?

Welcome Poppyseed. I see in later posts you have clarified some of the details above. But you raise an excellent point. I could agree with the poster who suggests that there are likely records from Smallwood that put DR in his room when he says he was there. But that does not mean that he didn't go out some other unconventional way at say 2:35 and come back in the same way at 4:10 or throw his car keys out the window. LE/PI should scrutinize his actions and his phone. I am not trying to make a case to accuse DR, just to say that his willingness to look for LS does not place him above the highest scrutiny.
 
Thanks, Abby. My mistake and confusing myself on initials at an early time. You're right, it was DR that was supposedly called, but ZO in the altercation and ZO's apartment that would have been on the way if she truly left the way JR says. So, change that earlier thought... What if LS was going to confront ZO for the altercation with CR? What if she tried calling DR for help to confront ZO, but when she couldn't reach him, decided to go alone to ZO? And, then of course as you corrected me (it's not DR, my apologies), it's ZO that may have a temper...

So, correcting that scenario, thoughts?

I think someone recently posted that ZO's apartments has cameras, that presumably would have caught LS arriving.
 
I think someone recently posted that ZO's apartments have cameras, that presumably would have caught LS arriving.

I couldn't find the "edit" button to correct my typo.
 
Thank you for the link, Btown.

"She is out of the headlines, but not the hearts of those who love her."


“She was a teeny little thing,” Charlene said. “But she was tough as nails.”

notaposter-1-1.jpg

http://www.idsnews.com/news/story.aspx?id=85908
 
Thanks Jupiter. I went back and listened to it also. This time I heard "shoeless and intoxicated".
Which suggests DR was repeating what he heard and not what he witnessed firsthand because by all reports, Lauren didn't remove her shoes until she arrived at the bar. Of course, we don't know for certain because the reporter was more interested in capturing a tantalizing sound bite than reporting the facts. :notgood:

The question of when Lauren became so intoxicated, if we're to believe the rumors, is an excellent one, imo. Does anyone recall who it was that said the group at JR's wasn't drinking? I know this has been discussed before, but it still bugs me. With all the talk of Lauren being intoxicated, severely so according to some, when and how did she come to be in that condition? She showed no signs of being inebriated walking out of SW, and if she didn't drink at JR's, that leaves Sports. But how long was she there? All of forty-five minutes? Another rumor implies she was taking Xanax. Well, that is a quick acting medication, and alcohol can intensify the effects, but still I'm bothered by the allegation. Now you've reminded us about DR's on camera statement, and as Jupiter pointed out, it does pose interesting questions.

I'm not doing a very good job of getting my point across. Not the first time, lol. :crazy: It's not the content of what DR said, nor is it a question of whether it's original or hearsay, it's the fact that he said it publicly. Who else among Lauren's friends outed her publicly? HT. Anyone else? I am reminded of the rumor that DR and HT were together that night.

Maybe they're just too young to know how to communicate sensitive info; maybe they have a shared motive for casting Lauren in a negative light. What might that motive be?
Sorry, Jupiter. I overlooked the post where you questioned whether DR was attempting to absolve himself. It's possible that he was caught off guard by the questions and is young enough to be a little naive about the press. I doubt he considered his first audible words would be "shoeless and intoxicated". So, I lean toward giving him the benefit of the doubt.

On the other hand, I think DR has won himself a pass. Generally speaking, it's been assumed that after he left JR's he was home all night. As others have posted, the cameras at SW would/should have recorded his comings and goings. CR and JR are known bad boys and were with LS in the hours before she disappeared. The altercation at SW, the mysterious walk through the alley, and the fact that Lauren was last known to be at JR's apartment, have fed suspicions about those two. Based on what little we know, they are the logical and most likely suspects. Beside a random abduction (which I still believe is a viable possibility), until now, I don't think I've ever seriously considered a scenario where JR and/or CR are not part of the equation.

I like imkeylime's bookend analogy, too. The phone call is significant for a few reasons. If LS was calling DR to open the door because she'd lost her keys, that would at least tell us she intended to go home and pretty much clears DR. If not that, what was the purpose of the call? There has been speculation that DR and HT were protecting JR. But maybe it wasn't JR at all, and we haven't asked enough questions regarding what happened before Lauren left SW. What did Lauren and DR talk about that evening? Lauren and HT? Who else spent time with Lauren that day? We've never gotten a confirmed (by LE) accounting of Lauren's whereabouts and activities during the eight hours or so prior to leaving for JR's, have we? And IF DR and HT are protecting anyone, who would that be? Is there a third party we're unaware of? Or no third party, but just themselves? So many questions, and we can only hope that LE knows the answers.
 
Which suggests DR was repeating what he heard and not what he witnessed firsthand because by all reports, Lauren didn't remove her shoes until she arrived at the bar. Of course, we don't know for certain because the reporter was more interested in capturing a tantalizing sound bite than reporting the facts. :notgood:

The question of when Lauren became so intoxicated, if we're to believe the rumors, is an excellent one, imo. Does anyone recall who it was that said the group at JR's wasn't drinking? I know this has been discussed before, but it still bugs me. With all the talk of Lauren being intoxicated, severely so according to some, when and how did she come to be in that condition? She showed no signs of being inebriated walking out of SW, and if she didn't drink at JR's, that leaves Sports. But how long was she there? All of forty-five minutes? Another rumor implies she was taking Xanax. Well, that is a quick acting medication, and alcohol can intensify the effects, but still I'm bothered by the allegation. Now you've reminded us about DR's on camera statement, and as Jupiter pointed out, it does pose interesting questions.


Sorry, Jupiter. I overlooked the post where you questioned whether DR was attempting to absolve himself. It's possible that he was caught off guard by the questions and is young enough to be a little naive about the press. I doubt he considered his first audible words would be "shoeless and intoxicated". So, I lean toward giving him the benefit of the doubt.

On the other hand, I think DR has won himself a pass. Generally speaking, it's been assumed that after he left JR's he was home all night. As others have posted, the cameras at SW would/should have recorded his comings and goings. CR and JR are known bad boys and were with LS in the hours before she disappeared. The altercation at SW, the mysterious walk through the alley, and the fact that Lauren was last known to be at JR's apartment, have fed suspicions about those two. Based on what little we know, they are the logical and most likely suspects. Beside a random abduction (which I still believe is a viable possibility), until now, I don't think I've ever seriously considered a scenario where JR and/or CR are not part of the equation.

I like imkeylime's bookend analogy, too. The phone call is significant for a few reasons. If LS was calling DR to open the door because she'd lost her keys, that would at least tell us she intended to go home and pretty much clears DR. If not that, what was the purpose of the call? There has been speculation that DR and HT were protecting JR. But maybe it wasn't JR at all, and we haven't asked enough questions regarding what happened before Lauren left SW. What did Lauren and DR talk about that evening? Lauren and HT? Who else spent time with Lauren that day? We've never gotten a confirmed (by LE) accounting of Lauren's whereabouts and activities during the eight hours or so prior to leaving for JR's, have we? And IF DR and HT are protecting anyone, who would that be? Is there a third party we're unaware of? Or no third party, but just themselves? So many questions, and we can only hope that LE knows the answers.

What I recall hearing about the group gathering at JR's is there was no alcohol. I translate this to mean at certain point in the evening they ran out. This could be a reason to go Sports.

The third party could be JW. They would protect him. Edited to add: JW is not really a third party so I would say: drug dealer. They would protect a DD.

It's possible there are several guilty parties in the group--guilty of different offenses (some moral, others criminal) and of varying degrees (providing alcohol, providing drugs, disappearing body).

I'll never forget viewing Lauren's Story--the video that was shown at the Shine concert. I gasped when the photo of DR appeared, not only because it caught me off guard, but it was a poignant reminder that he played a significant role that night.

Wierd maybe, but the more time that passes:

* The more I believe something happened at the gravel lot, but not necessarily that she disappeared from there; and,

* The less likely I believe it was abduction. Too much drama went down that night to have her snatched up off the street.
 
I just thought of something: Lauren was on probation and had not been out to the bars in a long time. I don't know if she was on a sobriety program, but drinking at JR's could have been a big slip. It could have emboldened her to risk going to Sports. She may very well have been intoxicated enough at JR's earlier to put herself at risk with probation orders.
 
The problem I have with the letter is if it's a random abduction then it probably accomplishes nothing anyway but if it's some horrible accident that has spiraled out of control then the letter isn't offering a lifeline. It's basically saying they want to drop the hammer on the person(s).

If someone knows or suspects a friend's involvement this type of letter is more likely IMHO to keep them silent, not tug on their heartstrings enough to get them to speak up. If someone is directly involved and this is weighing on them then without some lifeline being offered I don't see how this will bring anyone forward either. If anything it would strengthen their resolve to just get on with their life or else face the full force of the legal system with a high profile case and parents wanting revenge.

I think the letter would stand more of a chance of reaching someone and getting them to act if it said "We just want our daughter back. If this was some type of horrible accident that spiraled out of control, then talk to us....". Then offer a lifeline of some sort rather than a hammer.

If they could make the goal seem more one of closure than seemingly wanting to find someone to blame and punish then maybe someone would speak up. If they could do this in concert with LE then so much the better. Of course this type of leniency would be for an accident type scenario that went places it never should've went not for any type of murder/coverup scenario. But then if that is what happened no matter what tact the letter takes it isn't likely to bring anyone forward.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
98
Guests online
817
Total visitors
915

Forum statistics

Threads
589,927
Messages
17,927,740
Members
228,002
Latest member
zipperoni
Back
Top