GUILTY UK - Joanna Yeates, 25, Clifton, Bristol, 17 Dec 2010 #12

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veggiefan said:
While searching for VT's return date, I happened to come across that very odd quote from neighbour LP (tenant at No.42), reported in the Daily Telegraph on 1st January:

"I assumed she had absconded with someone, I didn't think she'd had been killed."

I wonder what led him to make that assumption?
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I think it's a reasonable assumption, given that he knew next to nothing about her and her relationships. It's very common for someone to leave their partner for another. Murder is rare though.
 
veggiefan said:
While searching for VT's return date, I happened to come across that very odd quote from neighbour LP (tenant at No.42), reported in the Daily Telegraph on 1st January:

"I assumed she had absconded with someone, I didn't think she'd had been killed."

I wonder what led him to make that assumption?
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Perhaps he meant that it's more likely for someone to leave their partner for someone else than be killed. If one of my neighbours went missing, I might assume the same until it became clear that they'd been abducted / murdered.
 
Myserty64 said:
The great mystery is where the L/L fits in all this. He isn't making any noise either.
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His bail conditions probably prohibit him from speaking about the case. Could be the very reason why they have not been lifted, perhaps they don't trust him to keep quiet. OTOH it could be something to do with the car.
 
bees said:
Perhaps he meant that it's more likely for someone to leave their partner for someone else than be killed.
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True enough.

bees said:
If one of my neighbours went missing, I might assume the same until it became clear that they'd been abducted / murdered.
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I don't think I would, unless I was aware that she was seeing someone else while her husband was out.

It's probably just a throw-away phrase from LP, although he was one of the few who could have had a good view over the low garden wall of the front door of Flat 1 at No.44
 
bees said:
If he was "away" as he told some journalists, you'd think the people who could corroborate that would have said something that would have leaked out by now.
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He may just have said that to fob them off. Which would go to show, it's always safest just to say 'no comment', as anything you do say to the media can come back and bite you later.
 
Patticake said:
Tabak Family Summit

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3382641/Vincent-Tabaks-family-summit.html

Not sure if this was in Marcel's video ... but Vincent called a family summit [minus the children] when he was visiting at Christmas to tell them he was "under suspicion.

So his family could not have been completely surprised when he was arrested.

.
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According to the brother, police turned the place "on it's head" before the Christmas holiday ... the brother says in his interview that when VT talked about what happened, he made sure children were not around. That is, he did not discuss the murder investigation around the children. VT apparently said that the investigation was stressful (it was probably stressful for everyone in the house, at work, and in Bristol), especially for the girlfriend ... and that there was absolutely nothing in the Life of Vincent (Dutch can include first name, but not last initial ... by law) that suggested he could be involved in murder.

It's still interesting that everyone around Vt, from his family to people he worked with, felt the stress of the investigation.
 
veggiefan said:
While searching for VT's return date, I happened to come across that very odd quote from neighbour LP (tenant at No.42), reported in the Daily Telegraph on 1st January:

"I assumed she had absconded with someone, I didn't think she'd had been killed."

I wonder what led him to make that assumption?
Click to expand...

i agree a very odd remark, and probably not one said by someone in a relationship with a woman...very much a batchelor remark.
we have some in our local ramblers group who might say something similar....
 
Missjones said:
I get the scenario, but in VTs case we have no motive, he is not a rapist has a good clean record in Holland as well as in the UK, worked hard to get the PHd and good job, got a new life with lovely GF spending Christmas with her parents from 24 till 26 Dec then goes home to his family in Holland till 2 Jan, goes back to work, why kill JY, why throw it all away, his family are so shocked and love him too . I cant think of another murdered who didnt have something in their background to make them a killer if not at the least some motive
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Try reading the following story from yesterday's Daily Mail. In brief, a 45 year old executive at Deutsche Telekom had a bad day at the office, and so relieved his frustrations by abducting, raping, and killing a 10 year old boy before dumping his body in the woods.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...tive-murders-boy-10-blames-office-stress.html

You cannot infer guilt or innocence from past conduct.

Murder often makes no sense at all.
 
aneurin said:
Try reading the following story from yesterday's Daily Mail. In brief, a 45 year old executive at Deutsche Telekom had a bad day at the office, and so relieved his frustrations by abducting, raping, and killing a 10 year old boy before dumping his body in the woods.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...tive-murders-boy-10-blames-office-stress.html

You cannot infer guilt or innocence from past conduct.

Murder often makes no sense at all.
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I figure crimes such as you describe would fall into one of the main types: "Crimes of Opportunity".

Such as someone who has a proclivity to robbery sets out his day with no crime intended. Then he sees an old lady who has just paid for purchases and has a nice sum in her purse.

As she walks on a lonely street, he mugs her and steals the purse.

If VT is the killer in this case, I suspect it could be a "crime of opportunity" and not premeditated.

.
 
otto said:
According to the brother, police turned the place "on it's head" before the Christmas holiday ... the brother says in his interview that when VT talked about what happened, he made sure children were not around. That is, he did not discuss the murder investigation around the children. VT apparently said that the investigation was stressful (it was probably stressful for everyone in the house, at work, and in Bristol), especially for the girlfriend ... and that there was absolutely nothing in the Life of Vincent (Dutch can include first name, but not last initial ... by law) that suggested he could be involved in murder.

It's still interesting that everyone around Vt, from his family to people he worked with, felt the stress of the investigation.
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If VT was truly under suspicion, why would the police allow him to leave the country?

In the video [which I have not seen] did VT's brother make it seem like the police had indicated he was under suspicion, or rather that VT himself guessed he was under suspicion because the police decided to search his flat?

And, under the gag rules in place in the UK, can VT's family make public appeals and proclaim his innocence? Or are their hands tied?

VT's stoicism and impassivity seems odd IMO.

.
 
aneurin said:
Try reading the following story from yesterday's Daily Mail. In brief, a 45 year old executive at Deutsche Telekom had a bad day at the office, and so relieved his frustrations by abducting, raping, and killing a 10 year old boy before dumping his body in the woods.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...tive-murders-boy-10-blames-office-stress.html

You cannot infer guilt or innocence from past conduct.

Murder often makes no sense at all.
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A funny lot to work for, Deutsche Telecom. A strange culture, that used to remind me of the movie "The Stepford Wives"...with me playing the part of the "malfunctioning" one. What that nutter's done though..well, that was one hell of a way to resign from your job after a particularly bad day there.
 
naturally suspicious said:
i agree a very odd remark, and probably not one said by someone in a relationship with a woman...very much a batchelor remark.
we have some in our local ramblers group who might say something similar....
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Agree (to all of it). When you read his Twitters you realise his use of the word wasn't odd, not for him anyway. I just think he's odd full stop. I've come to the conclusion you have to be odd to live in Clifton.
 
goldielox said:
Agree (to all of it). When you read his Twitters you realise his use of the word wasn't odd, not for him anyway. I just think he's odd full stop. I've come to the conclusion you have to be odd to live in Clifton.
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agree, even though a resident implied that all this couldn't possibly be happening in clifton...after all the lord mayor lives up the road....!!!

i suppose you have a certain number of professionals having the salary to live there...rent or buy...but remember that includes at least 300 on the sex register...probably mostly men....but having the money/status does not exclude some from being odd.
when i think of nos 42/44 canynge rd i imagine it full of such people, even though they may be "pillars of the community".

not a place i would feel comfortable living...particularly if the landlord made himself free/available to enter tenants' property.....for which they are paying him money...

son and girlfriend live round the corner...but still 2 doors away...in bought property...so a different ethos....but still look down onto shared carpark area...so as you imagine...i have found the whole business CREEPY...

lord mayor, by the way, is a lovely bristolian with a handicapped daughter, of whom he is very proud...says a lot about him....very down to earth.

other son's girlfriend describes clifton pubs as having flowers on the tables...and as a place where people drink good wine...not beer...!
 
goldielox said:
His defence costs are paid from public funds otto. If in due course he's convicted then there's a possibility he could then be asked to contribute towards his costs but since he'll be jobless, locked up and has no property then, unless he has savings (over £3k) he wouldn't have to because obviously he'd have no means to be able to.

Re bail - defendants can't put themselves up to stand surety for themselves. Someone else has to come forward to do it for them. They don't pay the court anything but they agree to...should the defendant breach bail conditions.
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Thanks for clarifying ... so his employer or his girlfriend or her father could have stood bail for him ... so that's not a factor if everything is on the up and up ... or ... he would never let them (too proud) do that for him
 
Patticake said:
If VT was truly under suspicion, why would the police allow him to leave the country?

In the video [which I have not seen] did VT's brother make it seem like the police had indicated he was under suspicion, or rather that VT himself guessed he was under suspicion because the police decided to search his flat?

And, under the gag rules in place in the UK, can VT's family make public appeals and proclaim his innocence? Or are their hands tied?

VT's stoicism and impassivity seems odd IMO.

.
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The whole house was searched ... that's what VT said. VT's brother did not make it seem like anyone was under suspicion, just that the house was turned on its head because of the investigation ... that it was stressful.

In the video, there was a focus on some aspects of British law, in particular the "silence" point ... since media was on his mother's doorstep within on or two hours, that silence point wasn't exactly in place. No discussion of the facts and evidence is allowed in order to protect the rights of the accusd. I don't think there's anything in British law to prevent anyone from expressing an opinion about guilty or inncence.
 
otto said:
Thanks for clarifying ... so his employer or his girlfriend or her father could have stood bail for him ... so that's not a factor if everything is on the up and up ... or ... he would never let them (too proud) do that for him
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He can still apply for bail. The stronger the case against him the less likely he is to get it so it could be that they wait till they get the depositions (evidence) bundle, or till May 4th to apply, though he can apply sooner than that too.

It can take time to sort some things out before a bail hearing ie have a suitable address (most probably outside the Bristol area) to go to, then to find people willing to stand surety and then for those people to gather proof to take to court that they do actually have the funds to pay it should they need to.

This article in the link below is a good reference re bail in the UK
http://www.yourrights.org.uk/yourrights/the-rights-of-defendants/bail.html

Unless he has some very close and generous friends in the UK he may be struggling (or have struggled) to find anyone to help him where living accomodation is concerned. God knows what the status of his job is right now- if they haven't sacked him is he classed as on unpaid leave or what? Without any salary how does he pay rent for anywhere if he's bailed? I have a feeling TM's father, a lawyer himself, may not want VT as a lodger in the circumstances, or to be any more involved than giving statements that VT was "a lovely boy".

Is he "lovely boy" enough to risk losing £20k-£30k on by standing surety? I'd have to be absolutely certain of someone's innocence and have absolute trust in them too to even think about doing it. I'd do it for my parents; that's about it. No one else. I wouldn't be doing it for a daughter's boyfriend that's for sure. I wouldn't do it for my own lol.
 
Missjones said:
I get the scenario, but in VTs case we have no motive, he is not a rapist has a good clean record in Holland as well as in the UK, worked hard to get the PHd and good job, got a new life with lovely GF spending Christmas with her parents from 24 till 26 Dec then goes home to his family in Holland till 2 Jan, goes back to work, why kill JY, why throw it all away, his family are so shocked and love him too . I cant think of another murdered who didnt have something in their background to make them a killer if not at the least some motive
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I am not saying VT is guilty that is for the Court's to decide, there has to be some substantial evidence against VT for the CPS to go with Case.
Just because someone has a Degree, loving Relatives, a nice girl friend and a good life, is not to say that they are not capable of doing this, Killer's come from all different part's of Society,

You said VT had a lot to lose, look how many murder's are committed in an act of rage, a Husband kill's his Wife or vise versa, they too have a lot to lose their Family(Children) freedom etc, but in a moment in a total loss of control and all normal reality goes out of the window, I know they were not Married, I was sighting an example of loss of control, at the time the Person committing a killing is not thinking about what they have to lose, rage consumes them and nothing else.

If VT is guilty, there is the possibility that VT never meant to kill JY, then after the act of what happened, self preservation and self survival took over.
We won't know anything until the Trail, as for the motive we may never know.
I do understand what you are saying though.
 
goldielox said:
Agree (to all of it). When you read his Twitters you realise his use of the word wasn't odd, not for him anyway. I just think he's odd full stop.
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Indeed. And an important distinction. His remark tells us much more about him than about whom he speaks. It just results in speculation based upon the comments of someone who had the option but not the wisdom to say "no comment".
 
Black Frost said:
His remark tells us much more about him than about whom he speaks.
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It just tells me he's got a large vocabulary and likes to make use of it. Nothing wrong with that.

The vast majority of people would have said they assumed X had "run off" with somebody (polite version) or that X had " _____ed off" with someone (insert popular vernacular expression of your choice). :shush:
 
otto said:
I watched a bit of it again. At 4:01 minutes (approx) the brother discusses VT being away for work. He says that the flat that Joanna and GR were in was empty for a few months, and then Joanna and GR were there for only a couple of months, and in the same time VT was in the US working ... so there wasn't much opportunity for them to have contact.

I suppose this suggests that if VT did murder Joanna, then it would be a random, stranger attack.
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Thank you for that otto :)
 
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