The message on the door

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NocturnalLady said:
I read an article written by Anne Bremner today that I can't find to link to for the life of me! Anyhow in the article I noticed that AB quotes the "suicide note" as reading: She save him, can you save her? It may just have been a typo to leave off the "ed" at the end of the first "saved" BUT the possibility occurred to me that perhaps Rebecca spoke English as a second language and if so maybe she made the common mistake of misusing verbs and sometimes saying the present tense when she meant the past or future. If that is the case and Anne Bremner's article is correct then I read the "suicide note" as having a very mocking tone. As in making fun of Rebecca for not speaking English correctly.

Even when I first read the wording of the "suicide note" I wondered if this was a reference to something Jonah possibly had said to Dina. If I heard from my ex-husband with whom I had had an ugly divorce that he felt that his new girlfriend had "saved him" - well that comment might rankle! If I then lost my only child in a horrific way while under the new girlfriend's watch and I then murdered her to get revenge on my ex-husband...well "She save him, can you save her?" might be just what I would say out of spite.

Found it: http://womenincrimeink.blogspot.com/2011/09/more-questions-than-answers-justice.html
Click to expand...

That actually makes me think that RZ wrote the note herself, since English was not her first language. Thank you for this post.
 
CDS22 said:
That actually makes me think that RZ wrote the note herself, since English was not her first language. Thank you for this post.
Click to expand...

We have now heard three versions of the message.
So frankly I wouldn't begin to guess which version was correct, <Mod Snip>
 
If Rebecca was confronted with the ER Dr.'s opinion that Max's injuries weren't consistent with the accident she had described, she would have protested any wrongdoing, and, believing that it was her performance of CPR on him that kept him alive long enough for the EMTs to be able to restart Max's heart, and thus, she had saved him, she would have said so. And I can see an angry confront-er thinking, really? You saved him? Let's just see who can save you!

The message makes sense to me now.
How awful. For everybody.
 
NocturnalLady said:
I read an article written by Anne Bremner today that I can't find to link to for the life of me! Anyhow in the article I noticed that AB quotes the "suicide note" as reading: She save him, can you save her? It may just have been a typo to leave off the "ed" at the end of the first "saved" &#8230;

Found it: http://womenincrimeink.blogspot.com/2011/09/more-questions-than-answers-justice.html
Click to expand...
(respectfully snipped: BBM )


I just read Anne Bremner's article linked above. I think we can rule out her version as a typo, because she specifically says it is inconsistent with the version in the autopsy report.

Written on a door in paint was the phrase &#8220;She save him, can you save her.&#8221; But the autopsy cites the language as &#8220;She saved him, can you save her. &#8220;
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greenpalm said:
(respectfully snipped: BBM )


I just read Anne Bremner's article linked above. I think we can rule out her version as a typo, because she specifically says it is inconsistent with the version in the autopsy report.
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Right that's what I was thinking too.

For what it's worth in my experience with people who speak English as a second language they usually write "better" than they speak in the sense that they may make a mistake during the rapidity of speech and say "save" when they mean "saved" but when they write they usually have more time and are more careful and accurate.

From what I have read, Rebecca sounds like she was a reasonably intelligent person, reasonably educated. I can see someone like that making the occasional verbal slip but not slipping up in a short, written message that was intended to be their last ever statement on earth. I can however, see someone who perhaps thought of Rebecca as a bitter rival latching onto an occasional mistake in Rebecca's speech and mocking her for it.
 
NocturnalLady said:
Right that's what I was thinking too.

For what it's worth in my experience with people who speak English as a second language they usually write "better" than they speak in the sense that they may make a mistake during the rapidity of speech and say "save" when they mean "saved" but when they write they usually have more time and are more careful and accurate.

From what I have read, Rebecca sounds like she was a reasonably intelligent person, reasonably educated. I can see someone like that making the occasional verbal slip but not slipping up in a short, written message that was intended to be their last ever statement on earth. I can however, see someone who perhaps thought of Rebecca as a bitter rival latching onto an occasional mistake in Rebecca's speech and mocking her for it.
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I respectfully disagree with you. Many of my non-native English language friends will often make mistakes with writing if they are nervous or angry or upset (for example, when taking a test). I think it's very possible that this proves RZ did write the message. That is only my opinion, of course.

Thank you for posting this information here. It certainly makes the case more intriguing.
 
Given that they claim she had paint on her hands, I think it is possible she wrote it - with a gun to her head. It fits with stripping her naked - forcing her to write something with the slight promise that if she complies, she will not be killed. Of course, it was just part of the whole humiliation. If she was alive when she went over the rail, as they claim, just think how all this was torturous - making her write, stripping her, possibly making her bleed in some way, binding her, all to extract some revenge before the final push.

Then slamming the door behind her in anger. But that was a big error that the person then had to correct.
 
does JS have an older son? That I'm speculating may have been at MS's accident? And RZ's younger sister was present as well, not in the shower as reported?

she saved him, can you save her = my younger sister lied to police and said your older son was not involved or present at MS's accident. Can you please see that nothing happens to her if the truth comes out?

she (RZ's younger sister) saved him (JS's older son who I am speculating was present at MS's accident. Saved him by not telling police what his involvement might be eg: doing a trick on the staircase.)

Can you (JS) save her (RZ's younger sister. Save, as in protect her if the truth comes out that RZ's younger sister and JS's older son - if he does in fact have one - had some part in the accident)
 
Lexiintoronto said:
does JS have an older son? That I'm speculating may have been at MS's accident? And RZ's younger sister was present as well, not in the shower as reported?

she saved him, can you save her = my younger sister lied to police and said your older son was not involved or present at MS's accident. Can you please see that nothing happens to her if the truth comes out?

she (RZ's younger sister) saved him (JS's older son who I am speculating was present at MS's accident. Saved him by not telling police what his involvement might be eg: doing a trick on the staircase.)

Can you (JS) save her (RZ's younger sister. Save, as in protect her if the truth comes out that RZ's younger sister and JS's older son - if he does in fact have one - had some part in the accident)
Click to expand...

Wow! That was a scenario that never occurred to me. And it makes sense out of the message if written by RZ. IMO. Thank you for giving me more to consider!
 
this is interesting and worth considering. however, this message interpretation is disconnected or hard to link to the suicide. its like , my sister protected your son, please protect her , ok ? while i commit suicide.
...... unless , Im not getting your drift yet. anyway, its definitely another message interpretation to consider.

Lexiintoronto said:
does JS have an older son? That I'm speculating may have been at MS's accident? And RZ's younger sister was present as well, not in the shower as reported?

she saved him, can you save her = my younger sister lied to police and said your older son was not involved or present at MS's accident. Can you please see that nothing happens to her if the truth comes out?

she (RZ's younger sister) saved him (JS's older son who I am speculating was present at MS's accident. Saved him by not telling police what his involvement might be eg: doing a trick on the staircase.)

Can you (JS) save her (RZ's younger sister. Save, as in protect her if the truth comes out that RZ's younger sister and JS's older son - if he does in fact have one - had some part in the accident)
Click to expand...
 
And what exactly would be a motive for suicide in such a scenario? She would not be blaming herself. Why would the sister need protecting? From what?
I don't think it adds up.
 
coastal said:
If Rebecca was confronted with the ER Dr.'s opinion that Max's injuries weren't consistent with the accident she had described, she would have protested any wrongdoing, and, believing that it was her performance of CPR on him that kept him alive long enough for the EMTs to be able to restart Max's heart, and thus, she had saved him, she would have said so. And I can see an angry confront-er thinking, really? You saved him? Let's just see who can save you!

The message makes sense to me now.
How awful. For everybody.
Click to expand...

The AR states that Rebecca was not performing CPR when the police officer arrived. She told the cop that she had given a few breaths but no reason was stated on the AR as to why she stopped. In that context, the message makes no sense to me.

JMO
 
Pach said:
this is interesting and worth considering. however, this message interpretation is disconnected or hard to link to the suicide. its like , my sister protected your son, please protect her , ok ? while i commit suicide.
...... unless , Im not getting your drift yet. anyway, its definitely another message interpretation to consider.
Click to expand...

I finally found that JS does have a 13 yo boy and 14 yo girl. I remembered the rumour about them all (MS, step-brother and sister and RZ's sister) 'planking' on the staircase, and the two step-siblings left before EMS arrived

(note: the following is ALL MY SPECULATION)

RZ and RZ's sister lied to police, saying that MS was alone at the time of his accident. (She 'saved him'. him = JS's older son)

RZ's last request to JS was that he protect her younger sister (can you save her) as police know the younger sister was definately at the scene. (she had cut her leg on the broken glass, i believe).

To me, that is also why RZ wrote it in paint on the door, not in a note that could be hidden or ripped up or otherwise overlooked. She had to write it in code in order to not let the secret out. But she wanted it heard loud and clear.

My feeling is that the phone message she received pushed her to the edge.

-Did he say 'get out'? And she was thinking she had nothing to turn to?

- Did he say 'MS is about to die.' and RZ was grieved, but also thought now it could be a full-police investigation? One doctor had *initially* mentioned that MS may have been suffocated - did RZ, with a criminal record, think that she might be distrusted and the cover-up might be found out? What a mess they were all now in, and she was the only adult on the scene.

She felt she had to go, but was thinking of her sister.

The above will cost you :twocents: :)
 
From what we know now, it appears the brother was not there at the time.
So it really isn't relevant whether JS has an older son or not if he was not at the house during the accident.
 
jjenny said:
And what exactly would be a motive for suicide in such a scenario? She would not be blaming herself. Why would the sister need protecting? From what?
I don't think it adds up.
Click to expand...

still my own speculation because I can't sleep:

Suicide, because with MS now dying at that point, her world might have seen to have unravelled. It was the breaking point. The police have said that her 'phone journal' indicated she was struggling with something prior to the accident. No job, maybe she felt she failed somehow at her task to look after MS, maybe she thought she would lose JS as a result.

In my theory, RZ's sister can be put at the scene of the accident, the other two children cannot. However, the older boy was somehow involved, and RZ's sister covered for him. (So did RZ, but that didn't matter because she was about to die).
 
jjenny said:
From what we know now, it appears the brother was not there at the time.
So it really isn't relevant whether JS has an older son or not if he was not at the house during the accident.
Click to expand...

He definately wasn't there? (my poor head)
 
Lexiintoronto said:
He definately wasn't there? (my poor head)
Click to expand...

Supposedly the older children left that morning to go back to their mother, before the accident. But, regardless, in a such scenario, it would not be RN with the most to lose. Why would she kill herself over it?
 
jjenny said:
Supposedly the older children left that morning to go back to their mother, before the accident. But, regardless, in a such scenario, it would not be RN with the most to lose. Why would she kill herself over it?
Click to expand...

I think her knowing that MS was about to die was the breaking point which led her to take her life. There are likely a myriad of underlying reasons.

IMO, her last words were to JS, asking him to protect her sister.
 
Lexiintoronto said:
I think her knowing that MS was about to die was the breaking point which led her to take her life. There are likely a myriad of underlying reasons.

IMO, her last words were to JS, asking him to protect her sister.
Click to expand...

Protect her sister from what? What did the sister need to be protected from?
And by the time of the supposed suicide, the sister has already left, so it doesn't look like she was in any danger anyway.
 
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