Malaysia airlines plane may have crashed 239 people on board #8

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revampz said:
there are reports it flew at 5000

they have to be very experienced to do this
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Flying at 5000ft is higher than most cessna's would usually fly. So no, they don't require much experience to do this at all...

Try flying at 100ft - 500knts :p
 

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Derryn Hunch said:
If its a hijack scenario, then the passengers HAVE to have had some value to the hijackers, because if it were just for the aircraft, well, as Snoopster said above, almost anyone in the world can get hold of a 777 - and any other large aircraft for that matter - and it would be a hell of a lot easier to hijack a cargo plane or any other non-pax airliner (or indeed just steal one) than conduct an elaborate plan like this to hijack one just for the sake of an aircraft.
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Totally agree! The only reason I can envision to hijack a plane carrying over 200 passengers is for collateral, not because the hijackers want the aircraft for some future purpose.

MOO
 
Chilly Willy said:
I'm convinced it's misinformation that the transponder was turned off before, rather than after the voice transmission, but setting that aside, it is definitely important to determine who the speaker was - especially if it was neither of the pilots.

I'd like one of our pilot friends to clarify if they can - where exactly is the hatch door for the ACARS system. Some reports I've seen say it's actually in the cockpit covering a hole in the floor that contains the electronics, other reports say it's accessible from elsewhere in the plane and the pilots may not have been aware it was turned off.
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I believe it was confirmed (regarding the transponder) in the PC.

Also, the pilot that was asked to radio MH370 said he was almost certain it was the younger pilot.
 
And if you look at terrorism it has other motives. The pilot is reported as not being OK with his govt – a good way to impact the country is good ole money. MAL is a state airline, already in financial trouble, and look at the costs they have incurred thus far .

The airline stock has plummeted since MH went down. All the resouves of the govt since Friday .

So if he did it, and his only motive was to impact a govt he did not like – success thus far.

Other motives:
a clear strategic objective: to compel modern democracies to withdraw military forces from the territory that the terrorists view as their homeland."

Conventional wisdom holds that terrorists also hold the power to inflict grave harm upon modern economies.

-Reducing consumers’ and firms’ expectations for the future

Forcing governments and the private sector to invest in security measures, which reduce efficiency in vulnerable industries (such as transportation and trade) and redirect investment away from more productive economic uses

Altering behavior by inducing economic actors (consumers, investors, businesses) to avoid areas of perceived risk (either sectors, such as aviation or tourism, or geo¬graphic areas affected by terrorism)

.- Triggering wider geopolitical conflict (This certainly has not helped China/MAL relationship.

(After 9-11 )The world airline industry was similarly affected. After earning $10.7 billion in profits in 2000, world airlines lost $11.8 billion in 2001.
http://www.kas.de/wf/doc/kas_10991-544-2-30.pdf?131022171614

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/mi...financial-woes-2014-03-10?link=MW_latest_news
 
Rereading that NYT article, I bet it's an editing error where the article is being updated and an old paragraph before the timing was confirmed was left in.
 
Chilly Willy, I think we are talking about different things. It was confirmed this morning about 14 hours ago at the press conference by the acting transport minister after questioning from a reporter that the ACARS switch off was BEFORE the "alright, good night" communication, this several of us heard live, was posted all over twitter and printed on multiple news sites
 
revampz said:
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/missing-malaysia-airlines-plane-live-3245935

see the breaking news re the flying at 5000 feet to avoid radars...

It has been on our news for the last hour...

very experienced to do that and done on purpose....
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I am quoting myself because the article above says that the communication was turned of AFTER the "all right good night"

FOR GOODNESS SAKES :banghead: I wish they would get it right straight up.....this is important and needs to be confirmed.

If it was before, then there is a very high chance it was the pilot (yes maybe with a gun at his head!)..

I am confused...

as there are loads of articles around like this

http://www.businessinsider.com.au/jets-acars-communication-system-was-shut-down-2014-3
 
Chilly Willy said:
From a report about the press conference:


The plane’s transponder, which sends tracking signals to air traffic controllers, was disabled at 1:21 a.m., about a dozen minutes after ACARS was disabled, making it difficult to monitor the plane’s movements through the usual means.

........

Malaysia Airlines has previously said that the last voice communication with the plane came around 1:30 a.m. Mr. Hishammuddin was not asked and did not say whether that communication came after the disabling of the transponder as well as of ACARS.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/17/world/asia/malaysia-airlines-flight.html
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It was turned off before. And is one of the main reasons they now say it was diverted deliberately
 
ptandj said:
That same article says the "alright goodnight" WAS before. I wonder if the 1:30 comm was the one with the other plane mentioned in early stories (at request of Vietnamese ATC)?
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I think you're right, that was the time originally given for the transmission from the other plane.

To me it's obvious that the transponder was shut off AFTER the verbal message, just as the plane left Malaysian control. Otherwise Malaysia would have demanded to know why the transponder was off and would have known there was a potential problem. They wouldn't have accepted, "All right, good night" as any kind of response and let the matter go.
 
Derryn Hunch said:
Flying at 5000ft is higher than most cessna's would usually fly. So no, they don't require much experience to do this at all...

Try flying at 100ft - 500knts :p
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oh ok...just going by what they said on the news: that you would need experience to go down and fly a plane this size at the altitude.....was just on again this past minute on channel nine....maybe they haven't checked what they were saying.
 
Chilly Willy said:
From a report about the press conference:


The plane’s transponder, which sends tracking signals to air traffic controllers, was disabled at 1:21 a.m., about a dozen minutes after ACARS was disabled, making it difficult to monitor the plane’s movements through the usual means.

........

Malaysia Airlines has previously said that the last voice communication with the plane came around 1:30 a.m. Mr. Hishammuddin was not asked and did not say whether that communication came after the disabling of the transponder as well as of ACARS.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/17/world/asia/malaysia-airlines-flight.html
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They said it was shut off approximately 12 minutes prior to 1:21am. But I saw another article question if it was off before it left the ground since the flight took off at 12:41am. That is a tight window.


The plane’s transponder, which sends tracking signals to air traffic controllers, was disabled at 1:21 a.m., about a dozen minutes after ACARS was disabled, making it difficult to monitor the plane’s movements through the usual means.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/17/wo...es-flight.html

While he didn't say it, the times indicate the transponder was off before the last communication.
 
Waddles said:
Chilly Willy, I think we are talking about different things. It was confirmed this morning about 14 hours ago at the press conference by the acting transport minister after questioning from a reporter that the ACARS switch off was BEFORE the "alright, good night" communication, this several of us heard live, was posted all over twitter and printed on multiple news sites
Click to expand...


Absolutely. The ACARS and the transponder are two different things. The ACARS was shut down at 1:07. The voice transmission was at 1:20. The transponder was shut down at 1:21, as the plane left Malaysian airspace. That's what I've been saying all along.
 
Look at all the countries the plane may have flown through if it was going to the end point of the northern arc:

"The plane, based on one potential endpoint, could have spent nearly all its flight time over the Indian Ocean as it headed toward an area west of Australia. But if the plane traveled in the direction of Kazakhstan or Turkmenistan, it would present a more perplexing scenario in which the aircraft would have evaded detection for hours while flying through a volatile region where airspace is heavily monitored: Burma, Pakistan, India, Afghanistan and western China are all in the neighborhood of that path, as is the United States’ Bagram air base in Afghanistan."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world...7397d6-abff-11e3-af5f-4c56b834c4bf_story.html

Did they shoot it down and are keeping secret? Why would they admit it, knowing that it's full of innocents. This seems the most logical explanation to me right now. But it doesn't explain the focus on the cockpit officers. What reason would they have to get to Kazakhstan or Turkmenistan? But others might and they may gave coerced the pilot.
 
Chilly Willy said:
Absolutely. The ACARS and the transponder are two different things. The ACARS was shut down at 1:07. The voice transmission was at 1:20. The transponder was shut down at 1:21, as the plane left Malaysian airspace. That's what I've been saying all along.
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aaah, now I get it :)
sorry!!
 
SeriouslySearching said:
An anonymous Iranian told the Persian service on Monday in a phone interview from Malaysia that he met ...... He stayed for almost a week in Malaysia." he said

http://www.straitstimes.com/breakin...lane-iranian-fake-passport-was-my-high-school

Why did they stay a week? When did they get those "cheap tickets"?
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Hummm that is a great question especially condidering the story they gave us is the tickets were bought 24 hours prior.to the flight

How could two people "hang" in MAL for a week
Those tickets expired, she said, because Mr. Ali did not confirm them. Last Thursday, she booked the tickets again
?????



http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/12/world/asia/malaysia-flight.html?_r=0
 
Derryn Hunch said:
If its a hijack scenario, then the passengers HAVE to have had some value to the hijackers, because if it were just for the aircraft, well, as Snoopster said above, almost anyone in the world can get hold of a 777 - and any other large aircraft for that matter - and it would be a hell of a lot easier to hijack a cargo plane or any other non-pax airliner (or indeed just steal one) than conduct an elaborate plan like this to hijack one just for the sake of an aircraft.
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Having the right pilot/hijacker in place already makes taking the plane even easier though.
 
https://twitter.com/uandv/status/445344301275283456

Plane dropped to 5000' and used terrain masking to avoid radar detection.

ETA Australian media link info:

The Today Show ‏@thetodayshow 3h

#BREAKING: @MAS #MH370 aircraft dropped to 5000 feet & may have used 'terrain masking' to avoid detection. @LauraTurner_9 reports #today9
 
Chilly Willy said:
Absolutely. The ACARS and the transponder are two different things. The ACARS was shut down at 1:07. The voice transmission was at 1:20. The transponder was shut down at 1:21, as the plane left Malaysian airspace. That's what I've been saying all along.
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But the voice transmission was not at 1:20am according to your own post earlier. It was at 1:30am and the transponder was turned off at 1:21am.. Correct?

(See my post previously with your quote)

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Derryn Hunch said:
If its a hijack scenario, then the passengers HAVE to have had some value to the hijackers, because if it were just for the aircraft, well, as Snoopster said above, almost anyone in the world can get hold of a 777 - and any other large aircraft for that matter - and it would be a hell of a lot easier to hijack a cargo plane or any other non-pax airliner (or indeed just steal one) than conduct an elaborate plan like this to hijack one just for the sake of an aircraft.
Click to expand...

OR a test of control of an aircraft.

BTW, the northern 'corridor' goes over Myanmar. Does their military government have any aircraft technology? How extensive is their radar monitoring? It seems to me that this government has no strong relationships with other governments. If a rogue aircraft flew over the country would they tell anyone? Would they do anything about it?
 
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