GUILTY GA - Jorelys Rivera, 7, Canton, 2 Dec 2011 - #5

If Ryan were being railroaded, we'd have heard something from his lawyer by now. My feeling is they have rock solid evidence and they are making the case bullet proof. I just hope there are no plea deals - he needs to be put away forever if he committed this horrible act.

I agree. LE would first look hard at the RSO's & others in the complex with a criminal record. A 20 yo without a record would hardly show up on their radar screen unless evidence pointed to him.

Also, about Jorelys diary - way too much is being made of it - and that is hardly an opinion - that is based on much experience with young children. In first grade, they are still learning to print - cursive isn't normally introduced until 2nd grade. At that age writing is time consuming & tedious & they don't have a large vocabulary of words. Diaries are fun because of the cute pictures & the lock & key - the 'writing' is brief & there are mostly drawings or stickers. If her purse & diary are missing, it's because she keeps her diary in her purse & had them with her on the playground.
 
The neighbor who lives across from the apartment where the child was tortured needs to be ruled out. I'm curious to know if he is a RSO and was ruled out. He could have grabbed Jorelys and taken her in the apartment across the hall but LE said the the previous tenant had a key so they likely kept the door locked until the day they carried out their plan to murder the child.
The previous tenant probably had a key because they didn't turn them in. Typically, a resident who leaves a mess doesn't turn in their keys - they just don't care. This sounds like a skip anyway. Someone who owed rent or was evicted.

If he wanted to know when Jorelys got off the school bus, all he had to do was walk or look outside his window. I personally don’t think he committed this crime but LE needs to know if he heard or saw anyone living in the apartment who was there on Friday. I wonder if LE are interested in pursuing the leads the detectives who inspected the apartment generated.

Of course they talked to the guy across the hall and asked if her heard or saw something - and why wouldn't they pursue other leads?

LE said it appeared to him that the former was still living there so it looks like they hadn’t finished moving out yet and that’s why they had a key to the apartment and were allowed to be there.

The apartment she was killed in was noted as a vacant and thus, why "Mark" the maintenance person took LE to it. Not that I've read everything, but where did you hear the former resident still had a key?

In November Joseline moved out of an apartment into another at RR complex so I wonder why she wanted to move - what was her purpose for doing that?
IIRC, she got a roommate.

Feces was spotted in the apartment which suggests the tenant had young children in diapers who were in the process of being toilet trained.
??? They were mistaken IIRC. Are you saying the former resident was potty training and the child pooped all over and they just left it? ewww.

LE also detected blood droplets from a nosebleed and because the heat was on in the apartment, a dry climate can cause a child's nose to bleed.

LE said this? I believe what the officer said was he "thought" the blood was from a nose bleed. All that was mentioned about the heat was the officer had to get out of the apartment because it was so hot.

Doctors recommend applying vaseline into the nasal passages to eliminate the problem. Normally a caretaker inspects a suite with the tenant the day the lease expires and the tenants turn in the keys, etc. Joseline had plans but I don't know what they were.

I doubt the resident that left furniture and trash all over the place would go to the manager and ask her to walk the apartment with them? It's never happened to me, ever. Walking the apartment is not a requirement, it's optional for the resident so they can have something signed stating whether or not there will be charges to the deposit. ---- "Joseline had plans.....????

The killer disposed of the body immediately after they had finished beating up an innocent child so they didn’t leave a dead body in the apartment. It is too risky and besides, the killer planned everything out in advance and it was executed effeciently and with precision. The killer knew the child had to be reported missing and LE had to be notified so they removed the body after the child was beaten nearly to death and had no intention of going back there because they had to leave and be where they were supposed to be to cover up the crime and avoid further questioning.

BEM: How do we know the body was disposed of immediately? We know she died within two hours, but not when the body was taken to the compactor.

We don't know that it was planned and we KNOW it wasn't done efficiently, there was blood all over the place....as for precision, how is that defined in this case?

BEM 2: Nearly beaten to death? She was still alive when thrown in the dumpster?

<snip>

If the victim wasn’t dead but unconscious after the beating, duct tape over the mouth prevented them from moaning or using their hands and feet should they regain consciousness. The killer took this into consideration. When the elements of premeditation and planning are present, the charges are first degree murder punishable by lethal injection. Therefore the killer can't claim they were insane when they committed the crime so they wouldn't be able to plea "not guilty due to reasons of insanity".

Making sure she was dead does not prove premeditation and it's not requisite for an insanity plea. Knowing right from wrong excludes the insanity plea.

Jorelys was murdered in early December and her father was expecting her to come and spend the Christmas Holidays with him. What was the mother's plan? Joreslys looks afraid in some of her most recent pictures imo. The mother said the last time she saw her daughter was on Thursday so she did wasn't protecting her child from harm the day the crime against her occurred. The mother said she had no contact with her daughter around the time she was murdered and I do not believe her.

This would mean everyone who said she was sleeping were lying to LE?

<snipped>


Q: Does anyone know of a previous case where a mother was convicted for sexually assaulting, beating and murdering their own child? Melissa Huckaby, the Sunday School teacher, had one daughter but the girl she kidnapped, sexually assaulted and murdered, Sandra Cantu, was not her child - IOW Melissa didn't inflict or dump her emotional problems onto her child - IOW, she protected her child from experiencing her pain.

Step-mothers, foster caretakers, and girlfriends - but I've not read or heard of a biological mother molesting and killing her child. I will tell you that I know mothers molest their children - but it's hard to prove, especially when the child is dead and they can't tell what happened to them.

Was there animosity between the mother and father over the little girl? I don't recall.
 
(snipped to save space)
Was there animosity between the mother and father over the little girl? I don't recall.

vlpate, There is no indication that there was animosity between the mother and father. There are no grounds for the theory or speculation. Best to just leave it alone.
 
Originally Posted by Bluesky#1
Feces was spotted in the apartment which suggests the tenant had young children in diapers who were in the process of being toilet trained.

<snipped>

Feces spotted in apartment suggests when people die they void (empty) their bowels.

Which could suggest that victim was moved to the bathroom. I would think victim may have even been killed in bathroom as well. A bathroom is usually smaller than most rooms in an apartment. So it would be easier to control a person.
 
vlpate, There is no indication that there was animosity between the mother and father. There are no grounds for the theory or speculation. Best to just leave it alone.

:deadhorse: ?
 
Originally Posted by Bluesky#1
Feces was spotted in the apartment which suggests the tenant had young children in diapers who were in the process of being toilet trained.

<snipped>

Feces spotted in apartment suggests when people die they void (empty) their bowels.

Which could suggest that victim was moved to the bathroom. I would think victim may have even been killed in bathroom as well. A bathroom is usually smaller than most rooms in an apartment. So it would be easier to control a person.

Please go back and read the case from the beginning. This kind of discussion just causes confusion. The "feces" that was observed was later determined to be blood.

I need to step away...far, far, away.
 
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
December 22, 2011 Thursday
Main Edition writes
Dixon and another firefighter, Kendra Chapman, would be the first to encounter blood in vacant apartment No. 10009, which police have since identified as the crime scene. The pair did not report their finding.
They thought some of the dried, brown blood they found in the bathroom was feces. What they did identify as blood did not appear to be "that bad," Dixon told investigators.

And another

an AJC Multimedia Archive states that
An officer recalled that the heat was on in the apartment and he felt light headed. After he cleared the rest of the apartment, "he walked outside to get some air."

This makes me wonder if the heat was left on and turned up on high on purpose. Could the Perp have been trying to get the blood in the apartment to dry up? IDK much about evidence, but would heat damage blood evidence.

~I would like to think that LE knew what they were seeing when they went into the crime scene. I would also like to think that until the evidence has been tested, then we don't know for sure what was found. There should be procedure that everyone must follow regardless of redundancy.
 
Please go back and read the case from the beginning. This kind of discussion just causes confusion. The "feces" that was observed was later determined to be blood.

I need to step away...far, far, away.

OK the two deputies that searched the crime scene saw small amounts of blood droplets which they feel came from a person who may have had a nose bleed, which found in the apartment. The deputies didn't report the blood because it didn't look serious to them. They also stated that it was feces all over the floor and toilet, which later was so called determined to also be blood.

I apologize for miss understanding what was found. Perhaps the overheated apartment turn the blood brown, giving it a not so obvious appearance of blood. God rest your soul Jorelys Sweet Angel.
 
Hi everyone...I'm new. Hope it's ok if I join you. This case has gotten me so upset...more than others in the past. I just can't get Jorelys and her mom off my mind...I hope they have found the real sicko behind this!
 
Here's my thoughts on it...I'm still learning to quote and snip, so please forgive my lack of doing those items.

The heat in the apartment? Could very well have been purposely turned up to dry up blood...but why? And is Ryan really that smart to have thought of it? I sure wouldn't have. In fact, I would have thought that turning up the heat would make things smell worse, quicker, and draw attention to the apartment. Unless they were thinking the heat would dry up the clean-up job...but then that still leaves the blood left in the bathroom.

The couch left in the apartment. I know when I have moved out, I've been pretty lazy. At one point in my life, I moved 6 times in a year, and by the last move, I pretty much threw my stuff in boxes and into the storage unit. One move, I left about $200 worth of liquor under my kitchen sink...never got that back! :crazy: So it doesn't seem odd to me that a couch would be left behind, especially if the person/people were getting new furniture, or moving in with a roommate, or the couch was crappy.

Jorelys face based on her funeral pictures. It looks to me that the right side of her face is "off"...like that was the side that needed the most work. Would this make the murderer a lefty? If I was to hit someone across the face/head, I would use my dominant hand, and that would incur the most damage to the opposite side of my victim's face/head/body. Unless the victim was hit from behind, in which case the damaged side would be the same side as my dominant hand.

Anyway, these are just my thoughts and :twocents: based on the last couple of weeks of reading this forum. This child has captured my heart and I just can't stop thinking about her...
 
Here's my thoughts on it...I'm still learning to quote and snip, so please forgive my lack of doing those items.

The heat in the apartment? Could very well have been purposely turned up to dry up blood...but why? And is Ryan really that smart to have thought of it? I sure wouldn't have. In fact, I would have thought that turning up the heat would make things smell worse, quicker, and draw attention to the apartment. Unless they were thinking the heat would dry up the clean-up job...but then that still leaves the blood left in the bathroom.

The couch left in the apartment. I know when I have moved out, I've been pretty lazy. At one point in my life, I moved 6 times in a year, and by the last move, I pretty much threw my stuff in boxes and into the storage unit. One move, I left about $200 worth of liquor under my kitchen sink...never got that back! :crazy: So it doesn't seem odd to me that a couch would be left behind, especially if the person/people were getting new furniture, or moving in with a roommate, or the couch was crappy.

Jorelys face based on her funeral pictures. It looks to me that the right side of her face is "off"...like that was the side that needed the most work. Would this make the murderer a lefty? If I was to hit someone across the face/head, I would use my dominant hand, and that would incur the most damage to the opposite side of my victim's face/head/body. Unless the victim was hit from behind, in which case the damaged side would be the same side as my dominant hand.

Anyway, these are just my thoughts and :twocents: based on the last couple of weeks of reading this forum. This child has captured my heart and I just can't stop thinking about her...

Hello, welcome, I am pretty new, too.
I think we decided not to linger on her appearance, but I will briefly agree that yes, the left side looked worse, but honestly her poor little face looked traumatized in general, and we have to keep in mind that this was not a gentle disposal so there could have been damage done from being in a compactor over the weekend, as well. I don't read much into the lefty theory, personally. For some reason I picture the attacker standing over her and hitting her with something (blunt force trauma with object), and in that case, the blow could land on which ever side was closer.
 
Welcome to the forum milagoddess. Jorelys has struck a nerve with so many of us here. It is great to have you with us.
 
Regarding the 'jacked up' thermostat: considering RB left enough evidence that the GBI felt confident making an arrest within 24 hours of collecting said evidence, I don't believe RB is clever enough to know he'd be potentially degrading blood evidence by turning up the heat. This young man has a tenth grade education--and not even a very good one from one can deduce from his grammar and spelling. He's no forensic scientist.

I believe it's possible that considering the apartment was a 'vacant' one, it would be one that the management would keep the thermostat low in. While the daytime temps in Georgia on the days surrounding Jorelys' murder had been running in the 50s and 60's, the nights were the first stretch of nights where temps ran in 30s that I can remember this year, aside from a fluke night here and there in October, I believe.

Ryan has probably never been in charge of a home/apartment thermostat in his life. He would be unfamiliar with working one. His adoptive mom likely was, and probably his new roommate was in the apartment he shared. This is the first month he ever he lived 'on his own' supposedly. I know grown adults with college educations who are stymied by figuring out how to work their home HVAC thermostat--their spouses do it. And yes, one is male and college educated.

I think Ryan was setting up his den of horrors and realized it was too cold for him to be comfortable to enjoy his 'work'. (I believe it was in the 30s the night before and this was a ground level apartment IIRC, and those retain the cool longer. By 5 that evening, I think it was in the 50s.) So he jacked up the heat to warm it up to his liking. He's probably inexperienced with how they work and fiddled with the levers and/or buttons until he heard the heat click on. And my guess is, he erroneously thought the higher he jacked it up, the faster it would warm up. (I swear my husband believes this!)

Then, he had a 'mess' to clean up and a body to dump. Probably the apartment wasn't horrendously over-warm yet like it was when the searches went through, and in his hurry to 'clean up', I doubt returning the thermostat to its previous 'vacant' setting was even remotely on his mind. :twocents:
 
Also...forgot to mention...in the Cherokee County IA report, the maintenance man is called by two different names...Mark and then later on, Martin. Maybe a mistake on the reporting officer's part...or did the maintenance man give two different names?
 
So he jacked up the heat to warm it up to his liking. He's probably inexperienced with how they work and fiddled with the levers and/or buttons until he heard the heat click on. And my guess is, he erroneously thought the higher he jacked it up, the faster it would warm up. (I swear my husband believes this!)



It doesn't?

:smile:
 
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
December 22, 2011 Thursday
Main Edition writes
Dixon and another firefighter, Kendra Chapman, would be the first to encounter blood in vacant apartment No. 10009, which police have since identified as the crime scene. The pair did not report their finding.
They thought some of the dried, brown blood they found in the bathroom was feces. What they did identify as blood did not appear to be "that bad," Dixon told investigators.

And another

an AJC Multimedia Archive states that
An officer recalled that the heat was on in the apartment and he felt light headed. After he cleared the rest of the apartment, "he walked outside to get some air."

This makes me wonder if the heat was left on and turned up on high on purpose. Could the Perp have been trying to get the blood in the apartment to dry up? IDK much about evidence, but would heat damage blood evidence.

~I would like to think that LE knew what they were seeing when they went into the crime scene. I would also like to think that until the evidence has been tested, then we don't know for sure what was found. There should be procedure that everyone must follow regardless of redundancy.

So he was too dense to wash the blood off the walls and wherever else it was visible? Instead her turned up the heat to dry it to make it look like feces?
:waitasec: That was a very short bus he rode to school....

If the temperatures were below freezing for two days in a row, he was probably told to go around turning up the heat in the vacant units. Sometimes the faucets are left dripping, but that can lead to disaster when maintenance neglects to turn the water back off and a stopper engages accidentally.
 
I agree. LE would first look hard at the RSO's & others in the complex with a criminal record. A 20 yo without a record would hardly show up on their radar screen unless evidence pointed to him.

Also, about Jorelys diary - way too much is being made of it - and that is hardly an opinion - that is based on much experience with young children. In first grade, they are still learning to print - cursive isn't normally introduced until 2nd grade. At that age writing is time consuming & tedious & they don't have a large vocabulary of words. Diaries are fun because of the cute pictures & the lock & key - the 'writing' is brief & there are mostly drawings or stickers. If her purse & diary are missing, it's because she keeps her diary in her purse & had them with her on the playground.

Maybe in the process of "grooming" her, he sat and taught her how to write his name? Or maybe wrote his name for her, not thinking, at that point, that he would kill her and the diary would lead to him...I mean, the blood in the bathroom and on the mattress....not much forward thinking, IMO.
 
vlpate:
Maybe in the process of "grooming" her, he sat and taught her how to write his name? Or maybe wrote his name for her, not thinking, at that point, that he would kill her and the diary would lead to him

Is that facetious? Grooming her? Does that mean you think it was premeditated that he was going to assault or molest her? No intent to kill, just molest or rape? Or he was just being nice?

I hope that doesn't come across snarky...I am asking respectfully.
 

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
179
Guests online
1,778
Total visitors
1,957

Forum statistics

Threads
589,951
Messages
17,928,083
Members
228,013
Latest member
RayaCo
Back
Top