Possible Murder Motives#2

All that really remains for me is whether or not she was sexually assalted, or if there was even an attempt at sexual contact. My feeling is no. Which would mean this is simpler than we all can believe: he got angry and killed her over an argument, at least on the surface, about work. I think it's hard for us to put our arms around this. If there was evidence of sexual assault we would all be familiar with it. It seems to me that whenever a guy kills a woman, the vast majority of the time, it turns out to be preceded by a sex crime. This kind of thing just doesn't happen that often. I think we are BEFUDDLED that there WAS NOT A SEXUAL ASPECT.

I know...seems crazy, huh? Still, though, his statement doesn't say she wasn't sexually assaulted - he only says they never had a romantic affair. For some reason, I keep thinking it was over a colony of mice/pregnant mice and how dirty their habitat was. If it was very dirty, the ammonia would be off the hook I would think, and make them more prone to disease and or death, etc. ... especially when being "test" mice / engineered mice.
 
Please leave the forensic astrology in the forensic astrology forum.
This is not the place for that discussion nor is it the place to discuss forensic astrologers themselves.
 
With all due respect, I seriously can't see how Annie wouldn't have gone through with her conversion to Judaism. Everything about her pattern in life is worked through. She starts, she conquers, she finishes. If she starts something, it seems to me as though she finishes it. She sets a goal and conquers it. I believe she set out to convert & was bound & determined to convert. She grew up in America, therefore more than likely was used to Americanized ways. I don't think anything about her Vietnamese heritage regarding Catholicism holds 100% true in her situation. She grew up in California, which is the reason I think this. Still, I understand why it may be hard to fathom she'd consider a conversion, but I find it quite normal considering the fact she was immensely in love with her soon to be husband. Everything that I've learned about Annie shows hard work and dedication. I find it hard to believe she'd work so hard to learn something she knew nothing about and have it all be in vain.
 
I know...seems crazy, huh? Still, though, his statement doesn't say she wasn't sexually assaulted - he only says they never had a romantic affair. For some reason, I keep thinking it was over a colony of mice/pregnant mice and how dirty their habitat was. If it was very dirty, the ammonia would be off the hook I would think, and make them more prone to disease and or death, etc. ... especially when being "test" mice / engineered mice.

He, Jersey Girl. I think that the police have said that there were no indications of sexual assault; certainly there are no such charges. I think that you're right: Resentment could have been sparked by recurring problems in the lab: It could have either or both ways: Clark and Le could have been felt that the other was not doing something properly. (I work in an office where an executive assistant, now mercifully gone, actually attempted to have a night-time cleanup crew member suspended or fired for not cleaning her coffee equipment every night to specifications.)

From observations of several brides-to-be, I would imagine that Annie Le might have had no patience that day for anything that Raymond Clark had to say.
 
reminder the topic is:
Possible Murder motives
The topic is not other posters. Discussing other posters is not ok.
thank you.
 
I posted this elsewhere, but it relates to her conversion:

* Her friends have said in comments on YDN that she was converting. Doesn't sound like something she was dabbling with or doing just to temporarily placate his parents.
* There are hints that her family was not pleased with the marriage. Her uncle is quoted in the YDN article "Ten hour days and still smiling" as saying "she seemed hell-bent on getting married."
* Yale's police called in the FBI because they felt there was a chance of inter-state abduction because her family wasn't pleased about the wedding and they theorized it might have been an abduction by a member of her family (this was a side-comment in one of the articles I read today, but I can't remember which one, unfortunately... will edit with link when I refind it). I had been wondering on what grounds they had called in the FBI. That also explains why the FBI bowed out when it ceased to be a missing person case.

All that said, I don't think her conversion/non-conversion or her family's feelings about same are related to her murder, but people here seem interested, so...
 
I posted this elsewhere, but it relates to her conversion:

* Her friends have said in comments on YDN that she was converting. Doesn't sound like something she was dabbling with or doing just to temporarily placate his parents.
* There are hints that her family was not pleased with the marriage. Her uncle is quoted in the YDN article "Ten hour days and still smiling" as saying "she seemed hell-bent on getting married."
* Yale's police called in the FBI because they felt there was a chance of inter-state abduction because her family wasn't pleased about the wedding and they theorized it might have been an abduction by a member of her family (this was a side-comment in one of the articles I read today, but I can't remember which one, unfortunately... will edit with link when I refind it). I had been wondering on what grounds they had called in the FBI. That also explains why the FBI bowed out when it ceased to be a missing person case.

All that said, I don't think her conversion/non-conversion or her family's feelings about same are related to her murder, but people here seem interested, so...

fully agree

Ditto!
 
Thanks to all who responded to my post on the earlier thread! I read the first ones, then was gone for the day, so still want to go back over the subsequent pages there.

Couple of thoughts:

I expect Annie was impatient with much that was going on at Yale that day as she was planning on leaving for her wedding soon and her thoughts were undoubtedly on the future. One thing she probably felt she didn't need was an unexpected, unscheduled trip to the animal facility; she may have thought she had everything wrapped up there to be taken care of during her absence. But she was so dutiful and responsible that she went there at the requested time. Very sad, indeed.

I would also like to add that these mice in question were not field mice or mice that might be found in the cellar/basement of a home. Yale had a lot invested in these mice -- in terms of protocols, treatments, medicines, investigators. I expect that the mice had to be analyzed (perhaps dissected) at certain times to determine if these protocols, medicines, treatments, etc., were having their desired effect. Given that, it could be construed as demeaning to say that Raymond Clark "cleaned mice cages" for a living. Not to defend what he is accused of doing to Annie, in any way. But just to encourage a thought or two about the language used in reference to his job which, after all, he had held for four years.

MOO.
 
Another angle...

She's getting married very soon....the wedding is going to be a very expensive affair...his wedding is a long way away and won't be nearly as nice...his fiancee works there, too...perhaps she's heard about Annie's plans and is very jealous of Annie's wedding, Annie's future career, and Annie's fiance's future career....so, she continues to bad mouth Annie to anyone and everyone (hence the bad rumors about Annie)....perhaps she even sabotages Annie on occasions. It wouldn't surprise me since she may have suspected that her fiance thought that Annie was cute or a "good catch" or whatever.

Also...all of Clark's fiancee's talk about "how nice Annie's wedding is going to be" would be annoying the heck out of him...making him feel more inadequate and cheated out what he thinks should be his, too.


Hmmm...I like this thought angle. I think this murder still boils down to power and rage as many have us have been speculating, but I think it is possible that the jealousy issue, which you're introducing, could partly be the fuel.

We have to remember that JH may have known (or known of) Annie, too. Also she had previously ranted about who Ray doesn't like in the YARC. So there was possibly a lot of cross-talk about work stuff between JH and RC (and the other fam members) at home, and perhaps that included Annie who is more educated, having this dream wedding, etc.... all this stuff that sets Annie apart (higher) than RC and his fam.
 
I posted this elsewhere, but it relates to her conversion:

* Her friends have said in comments on YDN that she was converting. Doesn't sound like something she was dabbling with or doing just to temporarily placate his parents.
* There are hints that her family was not pleased with the marriage. Her uncle is quoted in the YDN article "Ten hour days and still smiling" as saying "she seemed hell-bent on getting married."
* Yale's police called in the FBI because they felt there was a chance of inter-state abduction because her family wasn't pleased about the wedding and they theorized it might have been an abduction by a member of her family (this was a side-comment in one of the articles I read today, but I can't remember which one, unfortunately... will edit with link when I refind it). I had been wondering on what grounds they had called in the FBI. That also explains why the FBI bowed out when it ceased to be a missing person case.

All that said, I don't think her conversion/non-conversion or her family's feelings about same are related to her murder, but people here seem interested, so...

Re: the FBI (see bolded). Really? I thought they were still involved? One of the news reports said they were at the arrest scene, and I remember them being at the post-arrest conference.
 
Re: the FBI (see bolded). Really? I thought they were still involved? One of the news reports said they were at the arrest scene, and I remember them being at the post-arrest conference.

No - right after her body was found, it was announced that the New Haven Police were taking over the investigation in its entirety because they had jurisdiction.
 
We have to remember that JH may have known (or known of) Annie, too. Also she had previously ranted about who Ray doesn't like in the YARC. So there was possibly a lot of cross-talk about work stuff between JH and RC (and the other fam members) at home, and perhaps that included Annie who is more educated, having this dream wedding, etc.... all this stuff that sets Annie apart (higher) than RC and his fam.

Her department head, Joseph Schlessinger, was quoted in the YDN as saying she was always talking about the wedding. Those of us who've worked with brides-to-be can probably relate. I've worked with women who were about to get married, and yes, as the day gets closer, they are pretty much single-minded about the big day. And we, their co-workers, cut them slack because we know how it is.

http://www.yaledailynews.com/news/university-news/2009/09/11/ten-hours-days-and-still-smiling/

If JH and RC, who are the same age as Le, were having to scrimp and save for a not-as-lavish wedding more than a year away, there could have been some resentment, particularly if she talked about it all the time, as brides-to-be commonly do. People who are already envious often can't see past that to realize it's just because she's excited about her wedding. They may see it as the bride rubbing it in that she has something they don't.
 
Her department head, Joseph Schlessinger, was quoted in the YDN as saying she was always talking about the wedding. Those of us who've worked with brides-to-be can probably relate. I've worked with women who were about to get married, and yes, as the day gets closer, they are pretty much single-minded about the big day. And we, their co-workers, cut them slack because we know how it is.

http://www.yaledailynews.com/news/university-news/2009/09/11/ten-hours-days-and-still-smiling/

If JH and RC, who are the same age as Le, were having to scrimp and save for a not-as-lavish wedding more than a year away, there could have been some resentment, particularly if she talked about it all the time, as brides-to-be commonly do. People who are already envious often can't see past that to realize it's just because she's excited about her wedding. They may see it as the bride rubbing it in that she has something they don't.


The thing is, I'm sure the people in her lab knew all about it, but I really think it's unlikely she'd be talking about it inside the animal facility.
 
Perhaps Ray Clark's girlfriend/"fiancee" told him she wouldnt move in with him unless/until they were "engaged," so he decided to get "engaged" to her with a wedding date years in the future. The rent on an apartment is surely more manageable if two people are sharing it! Just an idea....

MOO.
 
I posted this elsewhere, but it relates to her conversion:

* Her friends have said in comments on YDN that she was converting. Doesn't sound like something she was dabbling with or doing just to temporarily placate his parents.
* There are hints that her family was not pleased with the marriage. Her uncle is quoted in the YDN article "Ten hour days and still smiling" as saying "she seemed hell-bent on getting married."
* Yale's police called in the FBI because they felt there was a chance of inter-state abduction because her family wasn't pleased about the wedding and they theorized it might have been an abduction by a member of her family (this was a side-comment in one of the articles I read today, but I can't remember which one, unfortunately... will edit with link when I refind it). I had been wondering on what grounds they had called in the FBI. That also explains why the FBI bowed out when it ceased to be a missing person case.

All that said, I don't think her conversion/non-conversion or her family's feelings about same are related to her murder, but people here seem interested, so...

I agree it's not related to her murder. There is a thread here for the personal side of Annie. I think that that information would be wonderful to post and discuss there because it gives us a rich full picture of who this victim was...in all her glory. RIP Annie.
 
The thing is, I'm sure the people in her lab knew all about it, but I really think it's unlikely she'd be talking about it inside the animal facility.

Is it common for a grad student to have the same one or two animal techs assigned to her project, or would pretty much anyone on the animal tech staff handle her particular mice? I'm wondering if RC was her designated animal tech, in which case she'd have more reason to talk to him. And if she had to make arrangements with someone about what to do with her mice when she was out of town, would it be just one tech or their supervisor or another grad student?
 
I know...seems crazy, huh? Still, though, his statement doesn't say she wasn't sexually assaulted - he only says they never had a romantic affair. For some reason, I keep thinking it was over a colony of mice/pregnant mice and how dirty their habitat was. If it was very dirty, the ammonia would be off the hook I would think, and make them more prone to disease and or death, etc. ... especially when being "test" mice / engineered mice.

Extremely dirty cages become very humid inside, the bedding gets wet and the food molds. It is not a pretty sight.

Pups (baby mice) will die of hypothermia if the cage floods. If a cage is without food or water for too long, mice will cannibilize any pups in the cage.

Mice will sometimes fight, especially the males and they can wound each other very badly.

If you do not wean a litter at the correct time, within a week or two all the females will be pregnant. If you are really negligent, you could end up with a LOT of mice in one cage.

Husbandry SOP is 5 adult mice per cage, or one mating pair plus litter per cage. If you do harem mating, you have to take the pregnant females out of the cage before they give birth, because you can't have multiple litters in one cage.

It is sometimes very difficult for the animal techs, because ultimately they are responsible for the mice in the room, but the mice belong to the PI, not the technician, so there can be some tension there.

Good technicians really do have a hard time if students and techs are sloppy in the room. Alternately, it can be maddening to a PI to be assigned a careless animal tech.

I would suspect it was not a regular cage or a food/water issue because he would be responsible for that. It was more likley something to do with specially flagged cages or overcrowding since she would be responsible for that. Animal techs are not expected to do any weaning, that's the responsibility of the lab.
 
Perhaps Ray Clark's girlfriend/"fiancee" told him she wouldnt move in with him unless/until they were "engaged," so he decided to get "engaged" to her with a wedding date years in the future. The rent on an apartment is surely more manageable if two people are sharing it! Just an idea....

MOO.

Could be. Or even to appease her parents or his parents.
 
Forgive me if this question has been asked before and I missed it.

Would Clark keep any kinds of records to show if Le's mice overpopulated, or a similar problem that would hamper Clark doing his job?

My thought is, Le would not have been slack -- she had a flawless reputation in her research.

But since her wedding was only a week away, it seems possible her mice got put on the back burner. Clark was trying to keep his "domain" under control, and Le was "making a mess." Possible?
 

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