Who Is Caylee's Biological Father?

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Brini said:
Link, please re: most female inmates being incest victims.

What percentage are sociopaths? It is not rare for a sociopathic mother to kill her kids. ID has had a few shows on that, BTW.

I think if you research, you will find that sociopathy is causal to child murder, with or without sexual abuse. If incest was causal, we'd have a tremendous increase in child murder.

So, you think Bundy, Ramirez, Peterson, and Bianchi were ALSO incest victims? They were all sociopathic murderers.

What grooming symptons/behaviors are you seeing?

Would you say LA is more charismatic, manipulative, and stronger willed than KC? Those are groomer qualifications.
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Would you say that Casey is more charismatic, manipulative, and stronger willed than Lee? Maybe she was the initiator. It's still incest if that is the case.
 
Brini said:
Link, please re: most female inmates being incest victims.

What percentage are sociopaths? It is not rare for a sociopathic mother to kill her kids. ID has had a few shows on that, BTW.

I think if you research, you will find that sociopathy is causal to child murder, with or without sexual abuse. If incest was causal, we'd have a tremendous increase in child murder.

So, you think Bundy, Ramirez, Peterson, and Bianchi were ALSO incest victims? They were all sociopathic murderers.

What grooming symptons/behaviors are you seeing?

Would you say LA is more charismatic, manipulative, and stronger willed than KC? Those are groomer qualifications.
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There are tens of thousands of cases each year of sexual abuse by fathers and brothers, and many more not reported. I think you think or are trying to portray that one is either all the way sociopathic or they are not sociopathic. I would hope you know that is far from reality. Sociopathic members of society can be completely normal for much of their life. Serial murderers tend to be 30 plus years old. It is cultivated through time so your scenarios fit, but I do not believe this is the case. I think Casey entered through time an alternative reality of sorts from excessive guilt, shame, and enabling. A nurtured sociopath of sorts. There are about 200 cases documented on average per year of mothers killing their children. You brought up four men. Men are different than woman and I would hope you know that so comparing them to Casey would be quite a stretch. As far as grooming, who knows. I don't think Lee would have forced himself upon her in the least, but the four year difference in age would help in assuming if the period of abuse (averaging 7 years) started well before conception, it is abuse. I do think the opportunity was there and they both lived at home well after Lee graduated from high school and well before he met Mallory.
 
Maybe Caylee's father was "in the system" and when they ran the DNA they came up with a name. Maybe that is why they say they know who the father is and don't seem to be following that lead as a possibility.
 
Broderick said:
There are tens of thousands of cases each year of sexual abuse by fathers and brothers, and many more not reported. I think you think or are trying to portray that one is either all the way sociopathic or they are not sociopathic. I would hope you know that is far from reality. Sociopathic members of society can be completely normal for much of their life. Serial murderers tend to be 30 plus years old. It is cultivated through time so your scenarios fit, but I do not believe this is the case. I think Casey entered through time an alternative reality of sorts from excessive guilt, shame, and enabling. A nurtured sociopath of sorts. There are about 200 cases documented on average per year of mothers killing their children. You brought up four men. Men are different than woman and I would hope you know that so comparing them to Casey would be quite a stretch. As far as grooming, who knows. I don't think Lee would have forced himself upon her in the least, but the four year difference in age would help in assuming if the period of abuse (averaging 7 years) started well before conception, it is abuse. I do think the opportunity was there and they both lived at home well after Lee graduated from high school and well before he met Mallory.
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Thank You, I agree with everything you've mentioned...you have a knack for verbalizing my thoughts....but with much more clarity:)
Brini when I commented on "grooming" I was not suggesting this was the case only rebutting the "forced" statement---I am only observing and doing some "armchair analysis". Imo to make a d/x of sociopathy or any other "damning d/x" is unjust, without having spoken to family/KC and collected case history. That said----to me the family's b/x is indicative of sexual abuse (1 out of 3 girls will be a victim)
 
belleyes said:
Thank You, I agree with everything you've mentioned...you have a knack for verbalizing my thoughts....but with much more clarity:)
Brini when I commented on "grooming" I was not suggesting this was the case only rebutting the "forced" statement---I am only observing and doing some "armchair analysis". Imo to make a d/x of sociopathy or any other "damning d/x" is unjust, without having spoken to family/KC and collected case history. That said----to me the family's b/x is indicative of sexual abuse (1 out of 3 girls will be a victim)
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I appreciate that. I don't believe it, but thanks. Seemingly it is a far more uncomfortable subject for many than something as rare as someone killing their child out of spite and resentment. I think it relates more to the uncomfortableness around this taboo subject, and the understandably harsh rebuke and response you get when you broach it one way or another. I don't shy away from it, because it is something that should be discussed because it makes sense.

Today. No denials and no rebuttals from the family. I think the silence is deafening because if you follow the family, and Casey as well, they will deny and disagree on the most minutia of subjects but not this. In Casey's interview at one time while she was uhah, uhuh, and hmmhuming responses, it was quite telling that she would get defensive/responsive about something as simple as a phone, or a chair, but not to the murder of her own daughter.
 
Broderick said:
Now you believe everything Cindy say. Okay. I don't.
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The counselor also advised her to get KC out of the house, and encourage her to stand on her own, per CA, and per Rick.
 
Broderick said:
There are tens of thousands of cases each year of sexual abuse by fathers and brothers, and many more not reported. I think you think or are trying to portray that one is either all the way sociopathic or they are not sociopathic. I would hope you know that is far from reality. Sociopathic members of society can be completely normal for much of their life. Serial murderers tend to be 30 plus years old. It is cultivated through time so your scenarios fit, but I do not believe this is the case. I think Casey entered through time an alternative reality of sorts from excessive guilt, shame, and enabling. A nurtured sociopath of sorts. There are about 200 cases documented on average per year of mothers killing their children. You brought up four men. Men are different than woman and I would hope you know that so comparing them to Casey would be quite a stretch. As far as grooming, who knows. I don't think Lee would have forced himself upon her in the least, but the four year difference in age would help in assuming if the period of abuse (averaging 7 years) started well before conception, it is abuse. I do think the opportunity was there and they both lived at home well after Lee graduated from high school and well before he met Mallory.
Click to expand...

But, sociopaths do do not feel shame or guilt. So, how would this proposed incestuos relationship move one to murder?

And, yes, I do know that there are tens of thousands-- prolly more than that, of incest cases in the country. In fact, I can tell you which regions of the country most of them come from. I was a psychaitric case manager for almost 20 years. I just do not see anything but speculation, on your part, in this case.
 
TripleA said:
Maybe Caylee's father was "in the system" and when they ran the DNA they came up with a name. Maybe that is why they say they know who the father is and don't seem to be following that lead as a possibility.
Click to expand...

We don't even know that they DO know who the father is.
 
belleyes said:
Thank You, I agree with everything you've mentioned...you have a knack for verbalizing my thoughts....but with much more clarity:)
Brini when I commented on "grooming" I was not suggesting this was the case only rebutting the "forced" statement---I am only observing and doing some "armchair analysis". Imo to make a d/x of sociopathy or any other "damning d/x" is unjust, without having spoken to family/KC and collected case history. That said----to me the family's b/x is indicative of sexual abuse (1 out of 3 girls will be a victim)
Click to expand...

The unjust dx of sociopathy was first presented by CA, herself. It has since been echoed by a number of talking head psychiatrists on TV and the Net.

Are you saying THAT "dx" is unjust to the family, but your "dx" of incest is just?

MOO
 
Broderick said:
Sorry I got this conclusion in my mind kind of late. I have been trying to come to an explanation in the case that made sense not only of Casey's behavior but the family's behavior. In the beginning I kind of thought there might be truth in the kidnapping or a biological parent on the father's side taking the child and then I quickly learned that wasn't the case. Then I thought perhaps it was an accident and more information came out that led me to believe it was premeditated to a degree, albeit rushed. Now after reviewing everything, I found there was no simple explanation for everything until I put the scenario of a Lee and Casey union as Padilla suggested and now it seems to make more sense of everyone, and everything involved.

Some people probably see the whole picture faster than me, as I had to come to some of what I am saying through time. I will give credit where credit is due, and if you were on that train of thought much earlier you deserve the credit for it.
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Im sorry Broderick i wasn't trying to start anything its just when i heard that the night it was on dana pretzer show and then he stopped mom n dad from doing lie detector tests and from helping anymore and the dna i just had said this very thing about 5 times and i dont know no one seemed to say anything about it after i mentioned it anyway no harm done Im with you lets just bring her home no matter what has happened before the tradegy she just needs to come home and sort the rest out after ...
 
CanManEh said:
Im sorry Broderick i wasn't trying to start anything its just when i heard that the night it was on dana pretzer show and then he stopped mom n dad from doing lie detector tests and from helping anymore and the dna i just had said this very thing about 5 times and i dont know no one seemed to say anything about it after i mentioned it anyway no harm done Im with you lets just bring her home no matter what has happened before the tradegy she just needs to come home and sort the rest out after ...
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I know you weren't. I think you were correct right from the start. We will see how it plays out. Since the Anthony family seems to have tossed the little girl aside, I hope America's girl as I call her finds a proper resting spot and I hope she is never forgotten.
 
Brini said:
Incest is possible- anything is possible. But, not indicated.

Continuing silence from KC/the family can easily be explained by what they said-- they don't know who the father is. Rick said KC was impregnated at a specific party, where there was more than one contact.

We don't KNOW whether KC was normal and well-behaved as a child. All we know about KC prior to this is the opinion of one of her teachers.

The women appear to be dominent in this family-- not the men.

The family secret is... the daughter of the house is a sociopath and habitual thief.

MOO.
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Wouldn't Christmas (or thereabouts) have been too late for conception? Who has a Christmas party as early as the 4th?
 
Brini said:
But, sociopaths do do not feel shame or guilt. So, how would this proposed incestuos relationship move one to murder?

And, yes, I do know that there are tens of thousands-- prolly more than that, of incest cases in the country. In fact, I can tell you which regions of the country most of them come from. I was a psychaitric case manager for almost 20 years. I just do not see anything but speculation, on your part, in this case.
Click to expand...

I personally believe that incest is a possibility. I would say that guilt or shame as a motivator to kill is incorrect. I'd be more inclined to say anger, resentment and depression are more likely motivators. I think to put it in the simplest terms, she just didn't want Cindy controlling her anymore. It wasn't about "Tony", although he could have been a motivator, anybody who could get her out of the house would have sufficed. It was about getting away from Cindy through whatever means possible, unfortunately.
 
I really don't get the sense that KC had any meaningful relationships with men. It sounds more like she used them, just like she used everyone else. For shelter, to party or for sex. Tony R could certainly vouch for that! Lol.
 
JustanotherJane said:
I personally believe that incest is a possibility. I would say that guilt or shame as a motivator to kill is incorrect. I'd be more inclined to say anger, resentment and depression are more likely motivators. I think to put it in the simplest terms, she just didn't want Cindy controlling her anymore. It wasn't about "Tony", although he could have been a motivator, anybody who could get her out of the house would have sufficed. It was about getting away from Cindy through whatever means possible, unfortunately.
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I agree that Tony wasn't the motivating factor at all. I think Casey even put it as a safe place. I think he was a mere convenience to escape the situation to a degree which caught up to her on several occasions when she would be awake sweating. She has a conscience. She might have so much to lose and she might be protecting the family and herself all the same.
 
Pink Panther said:
I really don't get the sense that KC had any meaningful relationships with men. It sounds more like she used them, just like she used everyone else. For shelter, to party or for sex. Tony R could certainly vouch for that! Lol.
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That is a hallmark symptom for someone that was abused at a young age by men close to her. I think if Lee is the father, than this would be one characteristic that came as a result of that. She was unable to be close and always seemed to have a backup guy(s) because perhaps there was fear of losing someone and being with nobody. I hate to say it, but if her first real feelings in that way were with someone in the family, it would be very hard for her to duplicate in subsequent relationships when that person is still "right there". Sick, sad, but feasible.
 
Brini said:
He said the Christmas party on 12/04/04.
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JustanotherJane said:
Wouldn't Christmas (or thereabouts) have been too late for conception? Who has a Christmas party as early as the 4th?
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Yes, December would be too early for Caylee's conception. I've never seen Rick say anything about a Christas party on 12/4/04. I have only seen him say this:
"I think she got knocked up at a party around Christmas, got drunk and maybe banged a bunch of guys that night and don’t know who the dad is. That is my theory."
 
JBean said:
Please Post about KC's Psych Profile here

not here.
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Hey Jbean, if one is discussing the possibility of Lee being the father, I think some of the psychological assessments and patterns are a bit relevant in wrapping the mind around the potential. I think she exhibits classic incestuous abuse symptoms to a high degree that exponentially developed through enabling while being saddled with the burdens that resulted from the abuse. It resulted in premeditated murder for relief and spite. JMO, but it is the crux of what I see in developing and discussing the theory. We shall soon find out.

Anyway, I didn't want to do something wrong. Please advise.
 
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