17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #25

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mikeysmommom said:
I sure hope they preserved evidence since GZ has been charged he does have the right to have all evidence collected that night.How can he possibly have a fair trial if evidence not collected might show he acted within the law.
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Good point.
 
grammieto5 said:
This my question...I now know there will be evidence from Trayvon's autopsy. But what of all the other evidence, is no other evidence apart from Trayvon's autopsy because there was no arrest. When there is no arrest does that mean LE does not have to preserve the crime scence because as far as they were concered there was no crime because GZ told them this???? is that all it takes for a crime to be committed.....the SYG law?
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I really hope not.......it is my opinion that spd seems to have done both tm and gz a great disservice in not doing a proper investigation into what happened that night.
 
heres what i wonder...if after the defense receives its first set of discovery , can they change their defense strategy and forgo the whole stand your ground defense? and if they do, what other defense could they claim?
 
This is some very good reading:
>> snip
The Wyche case, as I said, is factually different than the Zimmerman-Martin case. But I think its explanation of the statutes, defenses, burden of proof and court procedures is quite helpful.
I've excerpted some of the relevant statutes on self-defense, stand your ground, murder, and manslaughter here.
On the issue of bond, in case I don't get back to it soon, here's Judge Hirsch's decision in Wyche after holding an "Arthur Hearing" finding Wyche was entitled to bond. Again, it's a good explanation of the procedure.<<

http://www.talkleft.com/story/2012/4/12/194725/132
 
grammieto5 said:
This my question...I now know there will be evidence from Trayvon's autopsy. But what of all the other evidence, is no other evidence apart from Trayvon's autopsy because there was no arrest. When there is no arrest does that mean LE does not have to preserve the crime scence because as far as they were concered there was no crime because GZ told them this???? is that all it takes for a crime to be committed.....the SYG law?
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For one, things such as whether that blood that police noted on GZ really came from Trayvon.

JMHO
 
mikeysmommom said:
I sure hope they preserved evidence since GZ has been charged he does have the right to have all evidence collected that night.How can he possibly have a fair trial if evidence not collected might show he acted within the law.
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The Seminole County ME's office has a policy that is similar to MANY (no, I can NOT speak for ALL MEs' offices) jurisdictions of which I have familiarity. "The Medical Examiner is responsible for the body of the deceased. It may not be touched or moved, except for lifesaving efforts, without permission. The Medical Examiner and an investigator respond to every homicide and suspicious death scene before the body is taken to the office for investigation. Non-suspicious deaths are brought in by a contracted transport company without scene visitation." and the link: http://www.seminolecountyfl.gov/comsrvs/medexaminer.aspx#whyme

NOW, regarding the investigator, this individual provides significant data (measurements, conditions, photos, etc) to the forensic pathologist (just reflect back to the "other" recent Fla. case and the amazing work of Steve Hansen!). The clothing & materials of the decedent will be retained by the ME's office and EXAMINED as needed, referred to other agencies as necessary.

I believe the answer to this FAQ, "Why is an Investigation Necessary? " from the site (and DARN, that is one well-written presentation, IMHO!) REALLY gives hope that there is SOME credible, objective information available to ALL participants in this legal case!: "In the case of unexpected or violent (non-natural) death the attending physician cannot legally sign a death certificate. Investigation is necessary to determine the cause and manner of death and establish the identity of the deceased before a Medical Examiner can sign the death certificate.
As the last voice for the deceased, the Medical Examiner can uncover hidden evidence of injury to explain a sudden death or can document natural diseases to show that no foul play was involved in the death. Families of the deceased person rely on the Medical Examiner's determination to settle disputed issues in civil matters such as accident versus suicide or natural death. The offices of State Attorney, Public Defender and private attorneys rely on the Medical Examiner's determination to resolve issues of guilt or innocence. All persons rely on the Medical Examiner's determination in the pursuit of justice on behalf of the deceased person."


:moo::moo::moo: BBM/UBM the most important concepts presented within these quotes....and IMHO, those worthy of plagiarizing to other ME pages! :woohoo:
 
mikeysmommom said:
I sure hope they preserved evidence since GZ has been charged he does have the right to have all evidence collected that night.How can he possibly have a fair trial if evidence not collected might show he acted within the law.
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Exactly! If there is no arrest would they bother to preserve any evidence? What if the only evidence is from Trayvon's autoposy and that evidence does not match what GZ says happened?
 
grammieto5 said:
Exactly! If there is no arrest would they bother to preserve any evidence? What if the only evidence is from Trayvon's autoposy and that evidence does not match what GZ says happened?
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What if it does match?
 
grammieto5 said:
This my question...I now know there will be evidence from Trayvon's autopsy. But what of all the other evidence, is no other evidence apart from Trayvon's autopsy because there was no arrest. When there is no arrest does that mean LE does not have to preserve the crime scence because as far as they were concered there was no crime because GZ told them this???? is that all it takes for a crime to be committed.....the SYG law?
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IMO, I see two possibilities, It's possible that SPD assumed that the SYG law, by being justifiable homicide, also assumed that meant a normal homicide investigation did not need to happen. I also think, as a poster posted this morning, that SPD wrongly profiled Trayvon and were not going to waste resources to figure out what really happened. So I'm not sure if it's an SYG law problem, SPD problem, or both.
 
jjenny said:
What if it does match?
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welll then, if it does match, then i would think the sa overcharged. But im not sure how the evidence from trayvons autopsy would help exonerate gz. Evidence of gzs injuries, i believe would help. If there are signs of a struggle on trayvons body it would only prove that an altercation did happen. i could be missing something though??
 
jjenny said:
What if it does match?
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Well if it does match then it would go along with what GZ is saying, right? But if it doesn't match and that's all the evidence there is what then? Trayvon could have bruises on his hands because he was fighting off GZ, not because he-Trayvon_ was beating on GZ face/nose, but where is the evidence for GZ that he had a broken nose, or any other marks? If there are no pictures, xrays, nothing, no evidence other then Trayvon's autopsy.
 
grammieto5 said:
Well if it does match then it would go along with what GZ is saying, right? But if it doesn't match and that's all the evidence there is what then? Trayvon could have bruises on his hands because he was fighting off GZ, not because he-Trayvon_ was beating on GZ face/nose, but where is the evidence for GZ that he had a broken nose, or any other marks? If there are no pictures, xrays, nothing, no evidence other then Trayvon's autopsy.
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Yes GZ medical will be important as well as any witnesses, and also the 911 calls.Hopefully evidence was taken at the scene, I guess we all just have to be patience.JMO
 
belle3 said:
welll then, if it does match, then i would think the sa overcharged. But im not sure how the evidence from trayvons autopsy would help exonerate gz. Evidence of gzs injuries, i believe would help. If there are signs of a struggle on trayvons body it would only prove that an altercation did happen. i could be missing something though??
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Since there are eyewitnesses to a physical altercation, I would think that if the only marks on TM's body is the bullet wound and/or defensive-type wounds from GZ (like scratches), then the autopsy could exonerate GZ, particularly in light of the police report documenting a head and nose injury to GZ at the scene. Not saying that is the case, just saying that I think it is possible that there could be some exculpatory evidence gleaned from the autopsy report. And vice-versa, of course.
 
Does anyone know what point GZ reached when he was running? Where was GZ when he allegedly turned to go back to his truck?
 
does anyone think we will ever be in a place where we believe the "facts" in this case?? Will there ever be a thorough enough investigation into the events of that night that will satisfy the need for truth in this case? I wonder>
 
grammieto5 said:
Exactly! If there is no arrest would they bother to preserve any evidence? What if the only evidence is from Trayvon's autoposy and that evidence does not match what GZ says happened?
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I've not held any issue with what may have been done or saved from Trayvons autopsy for some reason.

I have been concerned about what evidence was taken from GZ and the area that night. If it was raining as I've heard would there even be any evidence in the area of what happened? Did the police take pictures of the injuries GZ claims, did they take and process his clothes? Nail Clippings or scrapes? What about a ba or drug test? Those are the things I am concerned about.

Any or all of that can either support GZ's claim or disprove it, or even be inconclusive for that matter but it would mean they actually did what they should have. k
 
belle3 said:
does anyone think we will ever be in a place where we believe the "facts" in this case?? Will there ever be a thorough enough investigation into the events of that night that will satisfy the need for truth in this case? I wonder>
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I think where this issue is going to be the most pressing is at the pre-trial hearing for immunity based on SYG.
I think it will be impossible for Zimmerman to get to the standard of proof required to be immunized from the law because the most important facts, as we know them today anyway,will be missing.
IMO, this almost has to go to a jury to wade through everything that is known and decide if prosecution was able to prove their elements and if the self defense evidence is adequate.
 
Isabelle said:
Sounds like a very good possibility, considering GZ's statement that these "***" always get away. He wasn't going to let this one get away!
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George's remarks on the call are very damning, IMO. It does seem like he was trying not to let this one get away..and I do honestly believe it sounded like he said PUNK, not the racial C word...but either way, I believe the call is very damning because of many factors. He seems intent on not letting Trayvon get away...he admits to following Trayvon...he is told not to follow Trayvon..the police were on the way...etc etc etc.

I have tried to be as objective as possible in every way, and I find it most believable that this would not have happened if George had not gotten out of his car, period. I also don't believe George had a valid reason for making the call in the first place, but he had NO business getting out of the car. I am concerned at the "f* punks" who always get away with it...this proves he has profiled Trayvon into a group of "them". Whoever "they" are, and what "they" allways do. Not good, very damning...
 
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