2011.05.28 Sidebar Thread

panthera said:

In reply to your second question, no I don't think it's odd.....and it seems to confirm the possibility that Caylee had been "buried" somewhere in the yard prior to being moved to the car trunk.

MOO

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I read about this later as I slept in after a long week this morning, but reading about that bit of testimony gave me chills. I thought, was that Caylee's way of saying she had been buried there? To not forget her and protect Casey instead? That definitely made my eyes widen.

ThinkTank said:

Originally Posted by Turnadot
For the first time since the 911 call, I empathised with Cindy today. She wanted to do right by Caylee, and she did, but what seemed clear to me is that she also wanted to help her daughter. She still wanted to, even after she accepted the truth. I can certainly understand not wanting to help sink the needle in. Baez's defense strategy made helping KC impossible. Cindy looked torn apart on the stand today, and I couldn't help by cry for her.



I do not have sympathy for Cindy, and did not want to cry with her today ... but I did.
At the same time though, I thought she was overacting the tears a bit when she looked at Caylee's bed and Caylee's playhouse and sand box and toys ... it's not like she hasn't seen all of these things, up close and personal EVERY DAY of her life since June 16th ... it's not like she was just seeing these things that remind her of Caylee for the first time in a long time .... does she cry like she did on the stand EVERY DAY at home when she sees Caylee's things???? Just sayin ....

oh, and when she asked the Judge if they would remove the photo of Caylee on the monitor because she would get upset when she looked at it and didn't want to cry .... that was a bit much IMO. She has photos of Caylee allll over her home that she sees every day!!!! George took a small photo of Caylee to the witness stand with him the first day he testified.

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:yes: And, that is part of why Casey is crying so hard. She is "kinda" telling the truth, kwim? It is their family dynamic.

I felt for Cindy today, I admit it came out of no where. Do you want me to tell you I cried harder for Cindy today than I have for Caylee. I am not proud of that. :no:

But, Cindy is still off. George is still off. The whole family is unusual. But, it is Casey that killed Caylee. And, if any of Cindy's pain that I felt I was feeling is real: she suffers to some degree because of Caylee being gone.

I don't think Casey does at all, okay it is not easy to give up on another human being like this, okay...but Casey does not care, at all about anyone but herself.

And, after that my only fear is that Cindy is more devious than it appears like I have thought about her...for a moment remember, all that Cindy as done i.e. the throwing of innocents under the bus. (isn't that as bad as attempted murder when the innocents are other people's 'babies' and you are accusing them of something that could carry a sentence of death? )

Ag. It is Casey who is on trial and for now, as long as George and Cindy stick with what they have said all along, I can be fine with that for now. :sigh:

ETA: I was going to say I think nothing has changed but in light of the Lippman statement: something might have changed. Maybe something proved to them she did it on purpose when before they were sure it was an accident, or had to think it was till there was proof. And then...

countzero said:

Agree with ya, except I didn't cry for CA nor extend sympathy. Linda and Littman prepared her very well, although CA brought out some of her old self a few times. She slipped up a few times but because the jury knows nothing of her vindictive, hateful lies and actions she has told and done in the past three years, the jury wil see only how she testified as a broken grandmother.

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I kind of half way agree with you, but think of it this way - the jury NEEDS to see Cindy that way to be more angry with Casey and assign more guilt to her. And honestly, the SA is brilliant with their questioning. If anyone has to bring up anything ugly, it will have to be the defense. And with the foundation the SA is laying, it's not going to be believable at all if the defense is the only one bringing it up. It gives more credence to the SA. They are not going dirt digging here, they are going with facts and evidence. The defense is going to come off as shady, whiny, aggressive, dirt diggers with nothing but gossip and lies to defend Casey with. Absolutely brilliance on the SA's part!

So anyway, I'm okay with Cindy looking like a broken grandmother. She actually is one, though I do think she's still caught up in appearances. Honestly, all the venom and bile from her and GA do not go towards what this trial is about - the death of Caylee and who killed her. That is the most important thing. As much I still am leery of them, there's just no need to bring anymore ugliness into that courtroom. The important thing is to focus on Casey and who she really is and what she really did to a defenseless, precious child. That is enough for me. And I never thought I would say that, but it's true.

PeteyGirl said:

I think JB et al on the defense team should have a pretty effective "weird shield" so they can put up with KC and her sociopathic crap LOOOOONG past the time the rest of us would be screaming for mercy. To be able to defend the indefensible (I seriously believe JB and the defense team see it this way) means to shut off your own conscience in order to do your JOB (defend KC).

This makes sense to me as an old psych RN, my daily life was dealing with personality disorders. I had to go to work, I needed to support my family, so how could I continue to do that job AND keep from strangling the patients or running screaming from the unit?

You compartmentalize. In the back of your head, you KNOW this patient is seriously WRONG, maybe even evil. Yet, it is your J-O-B to provide a service to them (in my case, a therapeutic one). You split yourself apart. Some people can't and understandably won't do it. For some reason, good or bad, I can do it. I could be kind and patient while at the same time know in my heart of hearts I was being kind and patient with someone who would rape my daughter and burn down my house if they thought it would get them what they wanted.

I never thought before this moment I could compare my job as an RN to that of a defense attorney but dang it, there it is

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Wow. I never thought of it that way before. I bet that is exactly what the defense does. They know what they have, but they are doing their job.

ThinkTank said:

Whatever the Lippman's Motion was .... the Judge asked if there were any objections to it, "before he SCHEDULES it" !! So, it is something that Lippman (Cindy and George) is asking the Judge to "schedule" for them. The State has no objection to it, but the Defense sure does object. Wonder what the Judge will "schedule" for the Anthonys? The Judge cannot force the Inmate to visit with her parents in the jail video system.....
Wonder if the Anthonys are asking for the Judge to schedule an independent mental health exam of their daughter? Could the Judge do that?

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2nd is BBM

I don't know but I think I may carry this question on over to the verified lawyer thread and ask if you don't mind. you have given me that tingle - bingo feeling with this question. If it is something that could be forced by the A s via the judge by George you may just have it.

I'm baaaaack! Need to catch up on my reading here, but always true to my word, I said the other night I would change my avatar from a pic with Mean CA/wimpy GA if it looked like CA was going to do the right thing. I have done that. It reflects my smiling inside as well as outside. I hope I don't have to change it back.

cleo612 said:

There was a hearing not long ago wherein Baez asked George if he would be willing to do ANYthing in order to save/protect Casey, up to and including lying on the stand, or even not attending a court hearing even under subpoena.

George replied that he would indeed do anything, including lying under oath or not attending a hearing.

My thinking is that ICA believed with all her (vacant) heart that George was going to get up on the stand and do precisely what he had told Baez he would do--lie for his daughter.

What ICA didn't know, or maybe she did--who knows?--was that the information in the psych reports was going to come out before trial and totally rock George and Cindy's worlds.

As I recall, Jeff Ashton was the one who conducted the depos of the 2 psych doctors. I am sure that he required both doctors to provide copies of their reports for the depositions. I would lay money that Ashton contacted Mr. Lippman and informed him of what those documents/reports stated. Mr. Lippman then informed George and Cindy, with ICA none the wiser--she still believed that her parents would stand up and lie for her, just as they have done for the past 3 years.

She should have stopped with all of the lying before she talked with those 2 psych doctors.

In stating whatever it was she said to them she, in effect, signed her own death warrant.

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I agree, but I believe Baez violated the court order to SEAL those psychologist's reports, and provided them to, or told Lippman about them, 6 weeks ago. I do not believe the Prosecutors would give Lippman info from SEALED documents.
I believe Baez gave Lippman the info as advance notice of what he was planning to say about the accidental drowning, and what the Inmate told the defense psychologists about the alleged sexual abuse, so it would not be a surprise to George and Cindy and Lee at trial, and they would cooperate with the defense strategy to help their daughter/sister not get convicted and/or not get the death penalty.
Baez blew it by adding much more grotesque detail to the sexual abuse claims and George and Cindy realized that something is wrong with their daughter if she could permit her lawyer to make those claims in opening statements.

ok. I agree, I wasn't feeling her pain. While I no longer believe CA is involved she still lives in the home and wears pictures of Caylee on her braclet. Pictures alone shouldn't elicit tears. Maybe having to speak and describe the crib, playhouse etc did.
MOO

NoeticSoul said:

I wonder if Lippman might have filed a motion that asks the judge to prohibit any contact or attempted contact from the defense or ICA during the trial. Those two notes at the end of the day (yesterday and today) really have me thinking that's what it could be. Witness tampering?

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Maybe Jeremy Lyons has been harrassing them? He did just get 100 more investigative hours!!

I am just wondering is the lies really mean anything at this point since it looks like the defense admits she lied. Caseys parents might just be part of the plan even though they will deny anything abt abuse. It still may put a shred of doubt in the jurors minds.

Anyone remember when Ca states to her coworker that "someone was swimming in her pool"? Did she tell them this on June 17th, the day after Caylee is assumed to have died?

allycat1208 said:

Anyone remember when Ca states to her coworker that "someone was swimming in her pool"? Did she tell them this on June 17th, the day after Caylee is assumed to have died?

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yes, it was CA's co worker....D. Bennet, in her depo

LolaMoon08 said:

Maybe Jeremy Lyons has been harrassing them? He did just get 100 more investigative hours!!

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Who is Jeremy Lyons?

allycat1208 said:

Who is Jeremy Lyons?

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The defense's private investigator who has already been accused of harrassing witnesses (TES searchers).

gngr~snap said:

ok. I agree, I wasn't feeling her pain. While I no longer believe CA is involved she still lives in the home and wears pictures of Caylee on her braclet. Pictures alone shouldn't elicit tears. Maybe having to speak and describe the crib, playhouse etc did.
MOO

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I was crying...so I guess the pics could have done the trick.

Folks...when you have lost someone...there are so many "triggers"...her crying IMO shouldn't be judged. This must have been such an emotionally trying day for her. Regardless of how she has behaved before, today reality smacked her in the face hard. She is testifying for the first time in the 1st degree murder case of her daughter.
JMVHO

ecs5298 said:

Hate to disagree with you momtective but her committing suicide would take away the only thing she truly loves.....herself! She would never do that! She loves herself too much.

Too bad she couldn't have shown the same emotion for Caylee.

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Respectfully...

I do not necessarily agree with this.

My sister was very much like ICA--she lied, told lies upon lies upon lies upon lies incessantly. The only person that mattered in her life was HER--not her two lovely daughters, not her husband, not our mother, not our brother, not me, not ANYone--ONLY HER.

She would stand and argue about the color of the sky, the clouds, the grass, even when it was so very obvious that it was a different color. She would tell so many complex lies, in fascinating detail, and if you happened to catch her in a discrepancy her response was "What the f--- are you talking about? You're sick!! I know what I said, and I never said that!"

She destroyed family relationships, telling lies about one person to another and then turned around and told different lies to the second person. If you wanted to be a part of her life, you had to denounce any relationship with other members of our family, by pledging your allegiance to HER and to believing in her lies.

I stopped talking to her the year that she psychologically destroyed my mother because I could no longer handle the tremendous pain that she inflicted on everyone around her. I have enough of my own personal health problems that I just did not want any of that stress any more.

She committed suicide 3 years ago--when all of her lies caught up to her and she was backed into the last corner. There was no way out for her so she took the last SELFISH act of her life and swallowed 80 OxyContin pills, locked herself in the front seat of her car and went to sleep.

It would not surprise me in the least for ICA to find herself at the end of her hallway, dead-ended with nowhere else to go, and taking that last SELFISH way out.

She would, effectively, be telling the world "F--- you, I WILL get the last word," leaving the rest of her now-destroyed family to live with unwarranted guilt for the remainder of their lives.

ICA, just like my sister, is one evil, conniving, piece of human matter. She scares the hell out of me, and I worry about ANYONE else that ever comes into contact with her. She will destroy you, turn and walk away laughing and not give you another thought.

SHE DOES NOT CARE.

She is evil incarnate and diabolically clever.

chckmate22 said:

IMO the biggest revelation from CA testimony is -- on June 16th the flurry of phone calls CA received at work from ICA - was ICA looking for a sitter - and one of the only few times CA said "NO" - ICA gave CA the ultimate punishment for that ...and CA will have to live with that for the rest of her life

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I have been following the full time, and I had never heard this before! Did we know this?

Can someone tell me where I can find complete video coverage of today's testimony? I checked out wftv but it seems to be missing part of it. I had to leave when Cindy was talking about Zanny.

Thanks

I remember the phone calls. I will be glad when the contents of the calls are revealed.

Beyond Belief said:

I am just wondering is the lies really mean anything at this point since it looks like the defense admits she lied. Caseys parents might just be part of the plan even though they will deny anything abt abuse. It still may put a shred of doubt in the jurors minds.

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I think as a total picture they do still show ICA going far beyond simply detaching.Her lies are always so far beyond what is reality. She kept up this fake job for two years! That was prior to Caylee being murdered.
She told AH that George had a stroke when she didn't feel like giving AH a ride to Jacksonville.
She told AH that Cindy was giving her their house and she and AH could live there.AH even had a change of address completed.
It shows ICA as a LIAR about more than Caylee being missing. If you can't believe anything else she says,how can you believe the story of abuse and drowning?
The lying is still huge evidence,IMO.