PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #4

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This case needs to be solved. I read the entire site the assistant DA who worked with him put up and there were so many red flags there. It doesn't sound as if it were investigated as adamantly as it should have been, but then we don't know what they did or or didn't actually do. It is troubling.

How does a high profile person like Ray G. disappear with very few clues?!
 
This case needs to be solved. I read the entire site the assistant DA who worked with him put up and there were so many red flags there. It doesn't sound as if it were investigated as adamantly as it should have been, but then we don't know what they did or or didn't actually do. It is troubling.

How does a high profile person like Ray G. disappear with very few clues?!

I agree, the investigation was botched, can't say whether it was intentional or not. If you read back to Ray's brother's comments and the fact that to this day LE/Investigators have not said a word about Carolyns (IIRC that is her name, the coworker) siteing of Ray which blows their original timeline, something is wrong with this, very, very wrong.

I am still convinced this is drug case related, whether he was taken out because he was getting ready to blow something wide open, someone retaliated that he pissed off, get in line, a lot of people in the drug world with prior dealings and prosecutions, again, IIRC, something fairly recent happened and someting fairly recent, like that coming Monday things were comign up, all drug related. Or he had to dissappear for some reason.

One other thing maybe....there is always the option that some abuser got him, he did A LOT of work for victims of abuse.

I still really lean towards paragraph one.

I don't think he just walked away....at times I have seasoned the idea, but I just can't get it to sit.
 
I was disappointed to see the thread gone from the CourtTV boards on her manuscript.

I think she was eloquent about Ray's character...I understand her point of view regarding the lack of leadership displayed after Ray's disappearance but think she took the internet message board thing too seriously. Any nationally renowned case generates its own wacko followers who try to insinuate themselves inside the investigation via the internet...Imagine if an investigator on the JonBenet case took the Bennett woman seriously...Oops that really happened!

After reading Karen's manuscript (and it is a manuscript because it is published on the web), I am more inclined to believe the murder theory. She made a big point about him not throwing county property (the laptop) into the river.

Likewise an honest, forthright, concerned with the victim type prosecutor is not going allow the waste thousands of dollars (if not more) on an investigation into his own fake disappearance or suicide. Frugal people (honest ones) are also frugal with other people's money entrusted into their care.

The one thing that makes me scratch my head is her near constant use of the word "paramour." What's her bone to pick with Ms. Fornicola to use such a word that has a lurid connotation over and over?
 
After reading Karen's manuscript (and it is a manuscript because it is published on the web), I am more inclined to believe the murder theory. She made a big point about him not throwing county property (the laptop) into the river.

Likewise an honest, forthright, concerned with the victim type prosecutor is not going allow the waste thousands of dollars (if not more) on an investigation into his own fake disappearance or suicide. Frugal people (honest ones) are also frugal with other people's money entrusted into their care.
These are very good points however if Ray did orchestrate his own disappearance or commit suicide, he wasn't necessarily thinking the way one would expect. Whatever would drive someone to do either of those things would probably be enough to cause that same person to disregard the responsibility he has to others' money or county property. Some things are big enough and/or powerful enough to make us behave completely out of character.
 
My dear IzzyB,:blowkiss:
I hold a great amount of Respect for you.
All of my Love and Respect,
dark_shadows


Hello friend!!! thank you for your kind words. the feeling is mutual, i assure you. i have returned to a 50 hour work week and have not been posting much, but to try to read threads to "keep up with everyone". best regards to you. love, izzyB
 
I believe this case has not been solved because the police and the FBI dont want it solved the question is why? I think there are people with a great deal of power that dont want this case solved. I believe the people who are supplying the drug dealers with their drugs are also the same people who dont want this case solved . I do believe the mafia have the power to pull the strings to make sure this case is never solved. Ray isnt just some guy off the street this he is a very important person and after all this time this case is no closer to being solved.:(
 
All of this time later, I still don't know what I personally believe but I don't think that you're alone in your beliefs, nappy. Something's seemed awry regarding the investigation of this case from very early on.
 
I believe this case has not been solved because the police and the FBI dont want it solved the question is why? I think there are people with a great deal of power that dont want this case solved. I believe the people who are supplying the drug dealers with their drugs are also the same people who dont want this case solved . I do believe the mafia have the power to pull the strings to make sure this case is never solved. Ray isnt just some guy off the street this he is a very important person and after all this time this case is no closer to being solved.:(


:clap: :clap: :clap: yep
 
Its so nice to see Ray hasnt been forgotten!

I believe someday maybe not today or even a year from now but this case will be solved .I truly believe what I write is pretty close to the way things
happend and why this case is not solved yet.
 
I haven't forgotten Ray. It is hard to believe that nobody has found even a little clue as to what happened to him. Did he really run into someone that knew him at that mall? Didn't someone see someone sitting in his car talking with him that day at the mall before his car was spotted? Someone who was smoking and there were cig butts on the ground on the passenger side? If that was the truth did LE take the butts and check them for DNA?

I don't believe that he committed suicide. Not after the affect his brother's suicide had on the whole family. It's hard to believe that he just walked away to start a new life too. Unless maybe he was afraid for his life then I could understand him walking away and not telling anyone where he was going for the safety of his family and girlfriend. I don't know how often that happens though. If he feared for his life why not go to LE and ask for protection and let them handle whoever he feared?

I hope that he is in hiding and will surface someday. My heart goes out to his family and how they must suffer everyday not knowing what has happened to Ray.
 
I haven't forgotten Ray. It is hard to believe that nobody has found even a little clue as to what happened to him. Did he really run into someone that knew him at that mall? Didn't someone see someone sitting in his car talking with him that day at the mall before his car was spotted? Someone who was smoking and there were cig butts on the ground on the passenger side? If that was the truth did LE take the butts and check them for DNA?

I don't believe that he committed suicide. Not after the affect his brother's suicide had on the whole family. It's hard to believe that he just walked away to start a new life too. Unless maybe he was afraid for his life then I could understand him walking away and not telling anyone where he was going for the safety of his family and girlfriend. I don't know how often that happens though. If he feared for his life why not go to LE and ask for protection and let them handle whoever he feared?

I hope that he is in hiding and will surface someday. My heart goes out to his family and how they must suffer everyday not knowing what has happened to Ray.

Bobbisangel,

IIRC, there were unconfirmed reports that a man was seen leaning into the passenger side of the mini cooper while parked by the mall. If that truly happened that would explain the ashes and smell of cigarette smoke coming from the car. Ray was an avid non-smoker. Patty Fornica has said that Ray would not allow anyone to smoke in his car.
The cigarette butts you refer to were found outside of the car, initially police felt they had nothing to do with Ray Gricar's case.

This case has always stuck with me, also. I wish his disappearance would have been investigated more thoroughly in the beginning. IMO the police either had it planted in their heads it was a suicide or walk a way, they then stuck with that theory. Meanwhile, all the viable leads dried up. A blueprint for a cold case in the making. It's a shame because Ray Gricar deserved so much more.


Because this case will be 3 years old this April, much of the information that used to be readily available has been moved to newspaper archives.
The Collegian (Penn State student paper) actualy has quite a few articles about Ray Gricar archived.

I agree with you. Suicide just doesn't seem to fit Ray's character, from all that I have read about him.

JMO
 
I just wanted to say one thing that really bothers me is that LE found five readable finger prints , Ray drove this car everyday and they only found that many? Just think of all the places you touch in your car everyday .

I think what ever happend to Ray was well thought out and I also believe who ever did this has done this kinda thing before . I also believe this was a dummy investigation and what I mean is to put on a good show for the public and that way there isnt a whole lotta questions asked and it look like they did thier job.

My guess is ray was taken care of before the car even got to where they found it, so who was driving the car and where are their finger prints? maybe they were wearing gloves or maybe the le didnt want to find the prints I dont know but one thing I do know is this case was a done deal before it even happend!
 
What happend to Ray Gricar ?
 
I just wanted to say one thing that really bothers me is that LE found five readable finger prints , Ray drove this car everyday and they only found that many? Just think of all the places you touch in your car everyday .

I think what ever happend to Ray was well thought out and I also believe who ever did this has done this kinda thing before . I also believe this was a dummy investigation and what I mean is to put on a good show for the public and that way there isnt a whole lotta questions asked and it look like they did thier job.

My guess is ray was taken care of before the car even got to where they found it, so who was driving the car and where are their finger prints? maybe they were wearing gloves or maybe the le didnt want to find the prints I dont know but one thing I do know is this case was a done deal before it even happend!


Why wouldn't LE want to find Ray? What kind of person would have wanted him dead and then LE not really bother to do a through investigation? Could he be in that program where he changes his name, etc because his life was in danger or until they arrest a certain person? When they are in that program they aren't allowed to even contact their family. Did they ever check those cig butts for DNA? Did someone that knew Ray actually see him at that mall on that date? If someone that Ray put in prison murdered wouldn't LE want to catch the killer? This is such a mystery to me.
 
Why wouldn't LE want to find Ray? What kind of person would have wanted him dead and then LE not really bother to do a through investigation? Could he be in that program where he changes his name, etc because his life was in danger or until they arrest a certain person? When they are in that program they aren't allowed to even contact their family. Did they ever check those cig butts for DNA? Did someone that knew Ray actually see him at that mall on that date? If someone that Ray put in prison murdered wouldn't LE want to catch the killer? This is such a mystery to me.

I believe LE was ether bought off or scared off by the organization who carried out Rays death and I believe LE did a quick investigation to make it look good before they swept Ray's case under the rugg and I think the people who killed ray was the people suppling drugs to the dealers. . They say they checked the cig butts but did they really? The protection program is a possible idea . There are somedays I think I got it figured out and other days I dont. This is such a strange case in the way everything happend I just hope Ray is okay or they catch who ever did this!
 
http://www.centredaily.com/news/local/crime_courts/story/356858.html

Human remains found in Bald Eagle State Park

Sara Ganim

The skeletal remains of a human were found Wednesday in Bald Eagle State Park.
State police at Rockview said the bones were found in Howard Township about 3:25 p.m. Wednesday. A forensic anthropologist determined the bones were human remains.
Centre County Coroner Scott Sayers said he and the anthropologist’s team sifted through the gravel and dirt and found remains, which Sayers’ office will attempt to identify in the next several months.
“They basically had somebody eye it up,” District Attorney Michael Madeira said. “As I understand it, it’s more bones and bone fragments than it is an actual body.”
Madeira said preliminary indications are the bones had been in Howard Township for a “long, long time.”
“More than five years, but that’s very preliminary,” Madeira said.
http://ad.doubleclick.net/jump/mi.c...oc=bts;=NTL3;sz=300x250;tile=3;ord=123456789?
There are a number of unsolved missing persons cases in the county, most notably former District Attorney Ray Gricar, who has not been seen since April 15, 2005.
 
It would be nice if this case could be resolved for his family and friends. Does anyone know how close this park area is to where he was last seen?

Thanks for the update, Christine.
 
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