TN - Holly Bobo, 20, Darden; believed abducted 13 April 2011 - #33

We don't know if LE ever got an idea of where the getaway car was stashed, so we don't know if they got possible tire tracks, but we do know the lack of roadblocks was a failure. That's another reason to want the 911 audio. Did Karen or Clint specifically communicate to the dispatcher that Holly had been taken off the property? If so, the failure was on local law enforcement's end...not communicating with each other or assessing the situation correctly.

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For me, my bold/underline is pretty relevant. We dont know,

I think that's a reason to examine what happened...maybe doing so could help another local force somewhere in the future when faced with a similar incident.

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Do you mean that we as armchair sleuths should examine the chain of events or that LE needs to assess? Because there isnt a chance that this case goes from Local, to TBI, to FBI without anyone reviewing.

Unless I am gravely misunderstanding the situation the theories here seem to reflect that LE hasnt found Holly because they did something wrong or they arent committed. Or they dont understand the resources they have available to them. And perhaps Holly hasnt been found because her family is covering up her death. Except for her mother.

Holly's mother calls every day for an update and the update never changes. Of course she is frustrated. So is the department.

I once knew the mother of a young woman who disappeared in the North East. Every fall she would bake homemade chocolate chip cookies and bring them in to the detective who was responsible for her daughter's case. During this same visit they would catch up on each other's lives and before she left she would tell the detective that she hoped this hunting season would be the one where someone would stumble across her daughter's bones and she could finally take her home to be buried.

This mother died a few years ago and the detective has never stopped looking, especially when the leaves drop. You may never see him walking the woods, but he is there.

~n/t~ said:

I disagree.

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Why do you disagree? What do you know that we dont know?

~n/t~ said:

bbm. Good luck!

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lol I know it. I was kinda trying to be sarcastic. I meant I would really like to get my hands on the timeline/calls. I know it ain't happening.

believe09 said:

For me, my bold/underline is pretty relevant. We dont know,



Do you mean that we as armchair sleuths should examine the chain of events or that LE needs to assess? Because there isnt a chance that this case goes from Local, to TBI, to FBI without anyone reviewing.

Unless I am gravely misunderstanding the situation the theories here seem to reflect that LE hasnt found Holly because they did something wrong or they arent committed. Or they dont understand the resources they have available to them. And perhaps Holly hasnt been found because her family is covering up her death. Except for her mother.

Holly's mother calls every day for an update and the update never changes. Of course she is frustrated. So is the department.

I once knew the mother of a young woman who disappeared in the North East. Every fall she would bake homemade chocolate chip cookies and bring them in to the detective who was responsible for her daughter's case. During this same visit they would catch up on each other's lives and before she left she would tell the detective that she hoped this hunting season would be the one where someone would stumble across her daughter's bones and she could finally take her home to be buried.

This mother died a few years ago and the detective has never stopped looking, especially when the leaves drop. You may never see him walking the woods, but he is there.

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I'm just talking about the lack of roadblocks. That's something we do know should have been done. I'm saying that a little media spotlight on that issue may help. It would be the perfect sort of thing for a law enforcement journal or publication to pick up also. But without the 911 audio the world in general doesn't know if the dispatcher was specifically told that Holly and the perp had been seen leaving the area.

believe09 said:

Why do you disagree? What do you know that we dont know?

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No disrespect, believe09. After reading the posts here, I believe ~n/t~ was giving her opinion.

jmo

I trust there are folks on here who are much more knowledgeable than I about how LE conduct missing person investigations and so I would ask them these questions in general:

- when a case is over a year old, realistically, how much time per day or per week is LE typically able to devote to it? I imagine that there are new crimes occurring regularly that must also be investigated, and without new leads, an older case would be at risk of getting buried by more recent ones. I do not believe an older case is ever forgotten, certainly not by the lead investigators, but just overshadowed by more current investigations. I don't know how LE departments could operate otherwise.

- If for instance, the hypothetical answer to my question above is that an investigator in the HB case is able to focus 2 or 4 or even 8 hours per week to the HB case, would that involve active boots-on-the-ground searching, or more like follow-up interviews, phone calls, re-visits to witnesses, family, friends? "Searching for Holly" can happen on countless different levels, no? I'd say ALL of us here are searching for Holly/Kyron/Lauren/Mickey/etc. by participating in the WS discussions and keeping them in our hearts, minds, and prayers.

- Does the FBI really have unlimited resources?

Just thinking and questioning out loud, and THANKS to anyone who can shed some light on my queries. :seeya:

wishuwerehere said:

No disrespect, believe09. After reading the posts here, I believe ~n/t~ was giving her opinion.

jmo

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I thought n/t had information that I missed. Seeing as how there are so many missing women from TN and missing blonde women etc etc, I would be stunned if a profiler hadnt taken a gander at her case. In any case, it is reasonable to me that the FBI would have done that anyway given the events of the abduction.

~n/t~ said:

So is it 2 neighbours who heard screams? There was a lot of confusion at the time it was revealed the neighbour was the son. Everyone thought it was the woman who was on tv but then Karen told the media it was the son of a neighbour.

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All I can say, is that I saw the clip on tv.

It showed a petite woman with short blondish/grey hair, saying that she heard the screams, plural.

dejavoodoo64 said:

That baffles me also and I've wondered who actually stopped Drew from hunting. Sometimes families can have problems between different members and it can be over something simple. I've seen it and lived it on my Mom's side of families, some haven't spoken in years.

After reviewing my post about the times I don't think I made it clear. If Drew was stopped from hunting around sunrise and called Karen to help straighten it out, then how could she be sure where he was later that morning when she told Clint it wasn't Drew with Holly? If its confirmed he was at work by 8 I guess its not possible he could have been who Clint saw. But I'm wondering if he planned on hunting, did he make arrangements to be late to work that morning? I would like to get the timeline and get the times of the phone calls straight. JMO

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There is a phone call timeline online. I believe Karen put it together with the help of others who made calls.
I have it saved, and will post it later.

~n/t~ said:

bbm How do you know this or is it just speculation? If you know this as fact, would you mind sharing with the rest of us. It would be great to know there are many still physically searching. Is it a SAR team?

TIA

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CUE was here searching recently. Also, Monica said that she would not stop searching for Holly until she is found, so she'll be back again.

At the same time she was here, law enforcement was searching a different area.

Thanks, Karen Anne.

dejavoodoo64 said:

That baffles me also and I've wondered who actually stopped Drew from hunting. Sometimes families can have problems between different members and it can be over something simple. I've seen it and lived it on my Mom's side of families, some haven't spoken in years.

After reviewing my post about the times I don't think I made it clear. If Drew was stopped from hunting around sunrise and called Karen to help straighten it out, then how could she be sure where he was later that morning when she told Clint it wasn't Drew with Holly? If its confirmed he was at work by 8 I guess its not possible he could have been who Clint saw. But I'm wondering if he planned on hunting, did he make arrangements to be late to work that morning? I would like to get the timeline and get the times of the phone calls straight. JMO

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Ok, this is not the one I was looking for, I will look for the other one in a minute, but thought I would post this. I have it saved, as possibly being posted by plumeria here on WS.


April 13th

4:30 am Holly wakes up to study with bedroom door shut
Dana wakes up shortly after Holly.
5:30 am Dana talks to Holly through her bedroom door about gas $
5:30 or 5:35 am Dana leaves money on counter in kitchen.
Karen wakes up to get ready for school and sees Holly
sitting on bed studying.
7:00 am Karen is leaving for work. Holly has dressed and is at
dining table.
Holly talks to Hannah on the phone. Texts back & forth.
7:00 ish am Hannah says cell is weak. Calls Holly from home phone.
Holly says she is going to put on shoes, eat breakfast.
Before 7:30 am Drew calls Holly to tell about problem with hunting
Flurry of phone calls between Karen, Drew and Holly.
7:30-7:35 am Karen hangs up from talking to Holly.Clint still asleep.
7:40 am Neighbor's son hears scream. Tells his mom. She calls
Karen's school.
7:50 am Clint wakes up, sees Holly's car, calls mom. No answer.
Karen calls Clint from school library.
Karen calls 911.
Clint looks out window sees Holly and a man walking
towards woods. Clint calls Holly's phone and Drew's.
Karen calls Clint again. Clint says he sees them walking.
Tells Clint to call 911 and go out with a gun.
Karen calls 911 again. Clint gets gun, goes out back door
sees puddle of blood.
Neighbor pulls up tells Clint about screams.Clint calls 911.
8:00am Classmate worries about Holly. Drew at work.
8:05am Deputies arrive at Bobos.
Karen arrives home with friend shortly after police.
8:30 am Dana arrives home.

dejavoodoo64 said:

That baffles me also and I've wondered who actually stopped Drew from hunting. Sometimes families can have problems between different members and it can be over something simple. I've seen it and lived it on my Mom's side of families, some haven't spoken in years.

After reviewing my post about the times I don't think I made it clear. If Drew was stopped from hunting around sunrise and called Karen to help straighten it out, then how could she be sure where he was later that morning when she told Clint it wasn't Drew with Holly? If its confirmed he was at work by 8 I guess its not possible he could have been who Clint saw. But I'm wondering if he planned on hunting, did he make arrangements to be late to work that morning? I would like to get the timeline and get the times of the phone calls straight. JMO

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This still isn't the one from Karen that I'm looking for, but it may be buried deeper in my files, so in the meantime, here is one posted by Smooth that has a lot of info. I'll keep looking for the other one that has just the calls only on it.

10-16-2011, 03:27 PM
SmoothOperator
It's Always worth a closer look..
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,155

4:30am*Holly awoke to study for an exam @8am. She studied in her room, alone, on her bed, and with the door shut..(time verified only via Holly's telling her mom later that morning)
5:30am*Dana stops at Holly's bedroom door and speaks to Holly thru her closed door asking did she need any money. She replies yes and he leaves it for her on kitchen counter.
5:35am*Dana leaves for work.
5:35am*Karen awoke and went into Holly's room to speak with her. Holly was studying on her bed.
Just shy of 7:00am*Holly is now studying at the kitchen table. Karen packs Holly's lunch and puts her breakfast in the microwave.
7:00am*Karen leaves to go to work(26 min travel time to work)
7:00am*Hannah calls Holly from her home landline on Holly's cell.. Holly indicates she is going to eat her breakfast and put her shoes on to leave.
Almost 7:30am*Holly's at the kitchen table studying when she receives a call from Drew. He proceeds to tell her of the cousin not recognizing him and wasn't giving permission for he and his dad to hunt on her grandma's 60acres located across the county.
7:30-7:35am*A flurry of calls take place between Holly, Drew, and Karen discussing the incident of Drew's not being recognized to hunt grandma's property.
7:35am*Karen speaks to Holly for the last time via cell phone.<Noted that Clint was still in bed asleep.>.
7:40am*James Barnes(neighbor to the south)Hears a scream from the Bobo's house. He alerts his mom(who lived there as well) and then left for work.
Around 7:40am*Cathy Wise(James' mom) calls Karen at school amd leaves her a msg in the office.
7:45am*Karen receives the neighbor's msg while in the school cafeteria.
7:50am*Clint is awakened by the dog barking. He looks out the window and sees no unfamiliar vehicles, but does see Holly's car. This prompts him to call mom as he'd already looked around and knew Holly was not in the home. He says his call was to ask if Holly had received a ride to school or did not have school that day. Mom's phone is in her classroom so he gets no answer.
At some point AFTER 7:50am**mom after receiving neighbor's msg she uses library phone to call home. Clint tells mom that Holly's car is still home. Mom immediately hangs up and calls 911(routed to Henderson Co)
7:50am*After the call Clint looks out the kitchen window and sees his sister and who he believed to be Drew casually walking towards the woods. This prompts him to call Holly's cell. It rings 5 times and goes to voicemail. He then calls Drew's phone.. It rings 5 times and goes to voicemail.<Noted that this assures Clint that Holly/Drew were indeed together with neither answering their cell phone.>.
7:55am*Karen again calls home with Clint relaying he'd just seen Holly/Drew walking towards the woods. Mom immediately tells Clint that is NOT DREW.call 911.Mom then tells Clint to get a gun and go after the man! Mom immediately hangs up and calls 911 a second time.*<Noted that at this time mom still HAD NOT told Clint that Drew had been on the other side of the county hunting.. THO THAT WAS MUCH EARLIER BUT FACT WAS CLINT STATED AT THAT TIME HE STILL BELIEVED IT TO BE DREW.
8:00am*Clint with loaded gun leaves out the backdoor of the residence, walks thru the open garage attached to the house. He sees a puddle of blood near Holly's car. *<Noted that even at this point Clint was still NOT alarmed, still believed it was Drew, and the blood was from a turkey(tho clearly no turkey in site)>.
About 8:00am*Clint walked towards the woods when Cathy Wise pulls up the driveway( James who heard the scream's mother)*<Noted that the school secretary told Cathy to go to the Bobo home to check> Cathy proceeds to tell Clint about the screams she had heard just some 15-20mins prior.[I personally noted that it does state that "she" heard the scream(s), but could just be the author's choice in words and not meaning it that "she" actually heard the scream(s)]
*<Noted it is at this point that Clint becomes alarmed for the first time> .
About 8:00am*Clint calls 911 at the same time as he heard the engines rev of the quickly approaching patrol cars onto their Swan Johnson Rd.
*<Noted that Clint states that the first officers were on the scene IN LESS THAN 10 mins from the time that he saw his sister/male walking towards the woods>
8:00am*Drew is at his job in Parsons
8:00am-ish*Mom arrives home with Terrie Bromley from school.
8:30am*Dana arrives back home.

Next paragraph has Smooth listing missing details in this timeline. (Not included here, for sake of brevity.)

dejavoodoo64 said:

I would like to get the timeline and get the times of the phone calls straight. JMO

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~~ Respectfully snipped ~~

This may be as close as I can get to the actual report of the calls as reported by Karen.
And as we all know, there could be some discrepancies here.
I apologize that I did not note the poster's name who responded to my plea for the timeline long ago, and no longer remember, but the credit goes to him/her with gratitude.

Karen

(From websleuths. Timeline:
4:30 AM (Holly awoke and was in bedroom studying, witnesses unknown)
5:30-5:35 (Holly still in bedroom, witness is father)
5:30-5:35 (Holly’s father leaves for work, witness is himself)
6:30-7:00 (Holly in bedroom and at breakfast table and mother makes a lunch for Holly, witness is mother)
7:00-ish (Holly’s mother leaves for work, witness is herself)
7:00-ish (Holly talking on phone with college girlfriend, witness is girlfriend)
7:30-ish (Holly talked with boyfriend on phone about him being accused of trespassing on her grandmother’s property across the county that morning while turkey hunting, witness is boyfriend)
7:30-ish (a flurry of calls between Holly/Holly’s boyfriend and Holly’s mother about the mistaken trespassing incident, witnesses are boyfriend and mother)
7:30-7:35 (Holly talked with mother on phone, witness is mother)
7:40-ish (Holly going outside to car-possibly 5 minutes earlier than usual so as to not miss a college exam, no witnesses)
7:40 (someone screamed at Holly’s house, male witness to scream is nearest neighbor to Holly’s house)
7:40-ish (male neighbor tells his own mother who also lives with him about hearing the scream)
7:40-ish (male neighbor’s mother calls Holly’s mother at work about the scream, witness is secretary who relays info to mother)
7:50 (Holly’s brother wakes up, witness is himself)
7:50-ish (Holly’s brother notices Holly’s car is still there and calls mother but gets no answer because mother’s phone is not with her, witnesses are himself and secretary)
7:50-ish (mother gets message from secretary and calls son/Holly’s brother who tells his mother about Holly’s car still being there, witnesses are son and mother)
7:50-ish (the alarmed mother calls 911 but is not satisfied that she talked to the right office, witness is Henderson County dispatch)
7:50-ish (Holly is seen being led into woods by a man, witness is brother)
7:50-ish (mother calls son again and son says Holly is walking into woods with a man he thinks is her boyfriend-mother says it cannot be her boyfriend and to call 911 and go outside with a gun and follow them, witnesses are son and mother)
7:50-ish (mother calls 911 again, witness is Decatur County dispatch)
7:50-ish (brother tries to call Holly but gets voicemail, witness is himself)
7:50-ish (brother tries to call Holly’s boyfriend but gets voicemail, witness is himself)
7:50-ish (brother gets a pistol and walks out of house and notices blood by Holly’s car, witness is himself)
8:00 (neighbor woman pulls up to Holly’s house and reports the scream her son heard to Holly’s brother, neighbor woman and Holly’s brother are witnesses for each other)
8:00-ish (brother calls 911, witness is presumably the dispatcher)
8:00-ish (first police car arrives)

The main difficulty with the timeline is the amount of events around 7:50-ish. Since it has been estimated that Holly and the man went into the woods at 7:50, it seems possible that Holly’s brother actually awoke around 7:40 to 7:45, perhaps awoken by the sound of the scream. This would allow ample time for all of the 7:50-ish events to occur.

End of WS post.

:fireworks::happy4th::fireworks2:

I have never seen this childhood photo of Holly.

Karen Anne RN said:

CUE was here searching recently. Also, Monica said that she would not stop searching for Holly until she is found, so she'll be back again.

At the same time she was here, law enforcement was searching a different area.

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You're awesome! Thanks for that info. I looked up CUE and indeed it was back in March when they had a large scale search and rescue for Holly with the help of Central Alabama SAR team. I'm really surprised it didn't make national news or maybe it did but I missed it.

I got the information from Central Alabama SAR homepage.

Central Alabama SAR responds to assist CUE Center

Chief Cantrell of Walker County Search & Rescue commented, “We were very honored to be requested to assist the CUE center. We have worked with them in the past on the Missing Persons Road Tour that they promote every year and they have been very instrumental in helping us to gain media attention for three of our cases that we are currently working in Alabama.”

“The case that we were called to assist on was the Holly Bobo case, a young woman that has been missing for almost a year now. The location and detail are classified of course because of the on-going criminal investigation. There were search and rescue teams from all over the United States and it’s amazing to see the work that goes on behind the scenes of such a large scale search effort. The advantage we have was that the CUE center actually paid all the expenses except for the fuel to get there, so we were glad to be able to go help. We are one of the few organizations in the state that actually work missing persons cases past the initial searches and having the CUE center in our corner is a great asset. Two of our members were assigned to Incident Command and our ground search teams and K-9 were assigned several sectors in the search area. We didn’t actually dive but we were the only dive team at the scene.”

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http://www.sarcentral.org/?p=132


It's great to get this kind of information. Now we know dive teams are available if needed. I wonder why they didn't search the water? Maybe they will after the ground searches are exhausted?

Fantastic! :rocker:

I have a random thought I'd like to throw out! I have been looking at the timelines and trying to figure out how the kidnapper could so "quietly" bring Holly to the point where she would contritely go with him into the woods! Because I have to tell you that if it were me and my brother, who were about the same age difference as Holly and Clint, I would have been kicking and screaming, hoping to get my brother's attention! I know she screamed at least once. But by Clint's account, the abductor did not have his hand over her mouth or anything as she was walked into the woods.

So just how did the kidnapper subdue her, AND cause at least some of Holly's blood to be spilled? Some have talked about a stun gun, but I would think this would disrupt her ability to walk right. A gunshot would make too much noise. How about a hunting bow? Are turkeys shot with bows? (Sorry, I'm not a hunter and don't know any!) Could he have hidden across from the carport and shot her when she came out to get in the car? Would the pain have then produced a scream? Does an arrow injury produce much blood? I've thought about a punch in the nose! But he'd have to get close enough to her to do that without her running back inside. If she saw him coming, she'd have time to react! I don't think I have heard anyone talk about bows--just the guns the Bobo's owned. Karen told Clint to get a gun and go after his sister!

Just thinking out loud here, and, of course, JMHO!

Whisperer said:

I've said it before...if LE arrived within x10 minutes, there is NO excuse for this case not being resolved. They had an eye witness to a kidnapping and are baffled. Are you kidding me?

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Early reports said that the kidnapper looked to be a "young" or "younger" man dressed in camouflage! If Clint only saw a silhouette in the garage and the back of the man later, I wonder what gave the impression he was young? Maybe the voice? Wonder if there was any attempt ever made for a composite sketch, even if they never released it?

Middleton echoed the family's concerns about no more roadblocks being put up. He said that from Swan Johnson Road you could be on the interstate in 15 minutes and from there you could be in any of three states in about two and half hours.

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The roads surrounding the woods by the Bobo home are Swan Johnson Road, 5 Forks Road, Myracle Town Road and connecting roads.

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http://www.jacksonsun.com/article/2...s-early-handling-investigation?nclick_check=1

Is the picture at the link Swan Johnson Road? That is not where Clint saw Holly and the perp, right? This road appears to be leading to the front of the house. If the perp didn't go this way then one would assume he would have taken one of the 2 other roads. Where do they lead to?