Nancy Grace - Monday, November 17, 2008

What still isn't making any sense is Cindy removed some things from the car, even washing Casey's pants and took a dinner knife out and washed it, yet she left all this other stuff in the car. It's almost like wanting to remove anything that could implicate Casey in something but not wanting to take away the "trash" which could be used to explain the stench in the car. MOO

Or maybe the boxes of frozen food with crumbs in them were ADDED to the car before LE arrived at the A's home on the 15th, to try to account for the smell, because remember, the bag with the pizza box had been thrown over the fence at the tow yard, so the A's maybe had to think of something else to put in the trunk. :confused:
 
Take note that Dr. Lee never mentions decomp on trash bag.

The more I think about that bag that was in the trunk, the more I get concerned. There was obvious decomp on the outside of that bag...Why wouldn't she toss the bag when she disposed of Caylee? :waitasec:

Was Caylee still in the car in the towyard? like under the cover of the wheel well? Maybe her body was carefully wrapped and then rolled in a blanket inside a duffle bag and stored in the well. :eek:
 
This may also lead directly to KC's claim that she was getting a "new" car. She apparently told several friends that. Maybe why she was calling the Lexus dealership?

Salem


Do you happen to know what happened to the parents green Toyota 4-runner suv?

I have traced the toll pays on that car..and they had it in even up to 30 July. I have not seen this discussed. Did it just go off the radar?
 
Okay. Phew. I'm all caught up after last night (Netherlands is + 6 hours from the East Coast).

A couple of questions for you sleuthies out there:

1. There were a LOT of pings in the neighborhood of Amscott. Could KC have returned to the abandoned car to "check" things and perhaps:
a) put frozen items in to preserve the body and/or slow down decomp?
b) put other trash in to mask odor?

2. If Henry Lee discovered "more evidence" and this evidence proves the prosecution's case, how will this work for him as defense expert witness? Are there more cases where an expert witness who was originally called by the defense ends up helping prove the prosecution's case? Can this only come out in cross?

3. If there was only "residue" in the frozen food boxes, what were they doing in there? Did KC drive around with a microwave so that she could eat in her car??? I don't get how there would be "empty" frozen food boxes in the car. Where is the food unless it was 1) eaten or 2) these are "smoke and mirror" boxes.

4. Will the jury be allowed to smell the car at trial? (sorry for the crude question but I'm wondering if it will be allowed or unconventional)

Thank you for any insight you all may have. I'm having trouble following this all at this point.
 
Okay. Phew. I'm all caught up after last night (Netherlands is + 6 hours from the East Coast).

A couple of questions for you sleuthies out there:

1. There were a LOT of pings in the neighborhood of Amscott. Could KC have returned to the abandoned car to "check" things and perhaps:
a) put frozen items in to preserve the body and/or slow down decomp?
b) put other trash in to mask odor?

2. If Henry Lee discovered "more evidence" and this evidence proves the prosecution's case, how will this work for him as defense expert witness? Are there more cases where an expert witness who was originally called by the defense ends up helping prove the prosecution's case? Can this only come out in cross?

3. If there was only "residue" in the frozen food boxes, what were they doing in there? Did KC drive around with a microwave so that she could eat in her car??? I don't get how there would be "empty" frozen food boxes in the car. Where is the food unless it was 1) eaten or 2) these are "smoke and mirror" boxes.

4. Will the jury be allowed to smell the car at trial? (sorry for the crude question but I'm wondering if it will be allowed or unconventional)

Thank you for any insight you all may have. I'm having trouble following this all at this point.

1. I don't think she was trying to slow down comp. It is tropical climate. frozen food wouldn't last but a short time. Many people say she put trash in car to difuse smell. We do not know what was in bag except for some papers and a pizza box. Nothing else has been told by the state. Dr. Lee said things today we do not know about yet...such as the empty frozen food boxes. We know there were maggots, most likly feeding off decomp on outside of bag. We can only pray some were inside with some live flies (to be able to possibly get evidence)

2. Dr. Lee is a "paid" witness. He will twist and confuse facts to promote jury confusion. He will not say anything that could aid the prosecution. Yes, if he opens the door, somehow in his testimony, then they can cross him on his findings. He is a professional at this stuff (meaning as a witness for whoever hires him). People hold him in such high regard, he is able to turn a bad event to the benefit for the side that is paying him by just a few words. i.e, in the OJ case all he had to say was, "Somthing wrong here" and the jurors assumed the prosecution was up to no good, thus...no conviction.

3. Kc, maybe, took bag from dumpster and placed it in her car to defuse smell (most people think)...... Dr. Lee brought up "residue" ...was he referring to decomp or what? again, his vaguenes was done to confuse the potential jury pool.

BUT there WAS decomp on the outside of the bag. It means, to me, that the body came in direct contact with the trash bag. Why didn't she throw away the bag if she disposed of a body? Either she intended to return to the car to dispose of the bag later( but why wait?) or the body was still in the car and she planned on returning or disposing of entire car and its contents.

4. I don't think we will be seeing a trial for quite some time...the defense will go for a continuince. By that time I would think smell would be neglible. IMO they don't need jurors to smell anything they have testimony of brother, father, mother, tow truck co. mgr, 2 homicide detectives and cadaver dogs. Also, Body farm institute has proof of decomp in their research of the carpet and stain.
 
I was thinking the same thing....but Ham? did he mean sandwich meat type ham...or a large ham.....that was a little bit weird.....

Lee's job is to do his best to throw some kind of doubt on the Body Farm results--so there are some VOCs found in the trunk he has to try to explain away.
One of the VOCs found is identified in both pig and human decomposition--another is identified in both dog and human decomposition. So it's not surprising that Lee picked HAM as his choice of meats which could have been in the trunk.(Body Farm tests were done on a pepperoni and mushroom pizza--so, no ham there) Next , Lee will prabably say that Casey ran over a dog in her travels.:rolleyes: Still there is a set of VOCs that were found in the trunk that the Body Farm defined as unique to human decomposition. So Henry's got some explaining to do...


The Body Farm was way ahead of them on this though. Here's a snip:


"Finally, we wish to discuss the possibility that these chemical signatures are of human origin.The decomposition odor products of animal remains (dog, deer, and pig-primarily bone)have been studied since these are the most commonly encountered in outdoor environments these animals can be distinguished from human remains by the percentages of chemicals
(ketones, amines, aldehydes and alcohols..."(SNIP)
 
trunk:

food, pizza, meat, ham, soda, maggots, all sorts of garbage in trunk

Not only does Casey lie, she's a slob!
OK, so I've been known to find some weird left-overs in my car from my Grandkidlets but geesh, she had enough crud in her car to feed a family of four!
 
Lee's job is to do his best to throw some kind of doubt on the Body Farm results--so there are some VOCs found in the trunk he has to try to explain away.
One of the VOCs found is identified in both pig and human decomposition--another is identified in both dog and human decomposition. So it's not surprising that Lee picked HAM as his choice of meats which could have been in the trunk.(Body Farm tests were done on a pepperoni and mushroom pizza--so, no ham there) Next , Lee will prabably say that Casey ran over a dog in her travels.:rolleyes: Still there is a set of VOCs that were found in the trunk that the Body Farm defined as unique to human decomposition. So Henry's got some explaining to do...


The Body Farm was way ahead of them on this thouigh. Here's a snip:


"Finally, we wish to discuss the possibility that these chemical signatures are of human origin.The decomposition odor products of animal remains (dog, deer, and pig-primarily bone)have been studied since these are the most commonly encountered in outdoor environments these animals can be distinguished from human remains by the percentages of chemicals
(ketones, amines, aldehydes and alcohols..."(SNIP)

Lee does mention that he has not reviewed the report; that he was only asked to look a the (physical) car.
 
2. If Henry Lee discovered "more evidence" and this evidence proves the prosecution's case, how will this work for him as defense expert witness? Are there more cases where an expert witness who was originally called by the defense ends up helping prove the prosecution's case? Can this only come out in cross?

Regardless of his findings, Henry Lee will never say or do anything to help the State's case.

In the case of Scott Peterson, Lee knew he could not add anything to help the defense, so he was never called to testify.
 
Were all of the items listed by Mr. Lee actually loose in the trunk? Or are they the contents of the garbage bag retrieved from over the fence? I thought the trunk contents had been logged by LE upon investigation of the trunk and IIRC there was not much there?? Could he be going on what CA "claims" to have removed from the trunk during her clean out? I've been digging and can't find anything listing empty frozen food containers or soda boxes or anything he talked about??
 
Were all of the items listed by Mr. Lee actually loose in the trunk? Or are they the contents of the garbage bag retrieved from over the fence? I thought the trunk contents had been logged by LE upon investigation of the trunk and IIRC there was not much there?? Could he be going on what CA "claims" to have removed from the trunk during her clean out? I've been digging and can't find anything listing empty frozen food containers or soda boxes or anything he talked about??
I really do think that he was just referring to the items that we've seen listed and the contents of the bag. He makes it sound like a lot more because probably from a forensics standpoint, it's a lot. Even when he's describing the food - he has broken down the ingredients of a meat and cheese pizza! (He's a technical expert in forensics so, this wouldn't surprise me.) :rolleyes:
 
Originally Posted by tsitra01
Beware of Dr Lee, he will always lean toward the side that is paying him. He has a reputation of being the best and that best also includes confusing and twisting the evidence.


I could not have said it any better. You are spot on!
:blowkiss:
 
Regardless of his findings, Henry Lee will never say or do anything to help the State's case.

In the case of Scott Peterson, Lee knew he could not add anything to help the defense, so he was never called to testify.

Exactly, magnolia. Henry Lee has been hired by the Defense. It is now his job to come up with some scientific alternative (no matter how improbable it may be) to the evidence of human decomposition found in the trunk.
He hasn't been hired to tell the truth, but to confuse it, rearrange it and make it look scientifically feasable in the process.

When I first started following cases I was stunned by these paid experts who would do flip-flops from one case to another and do everything short of LIE on the stand. I've finally come to accept that this is all part of a "fair trial." Doesn't mean I have to like it though....
 
I got the impression that Dr Lee was hired only to inspect the car for trace evidence - a temp job, as it were. This is his quote on the subject from the transcript linked above:

My initial agreement was just to examine the car, to look at the car. So I don`t know any other evidence. And of course, a lot depends on the schedule and -- to look at the hair or not. And I`m sure if it`s important -- Larry -- Dr. Kobilinsky is another excellent forensic scientist. I`m sure he can look at the hair, too.

Dr Lee turned his findings over to LE, and went home to Connecticut. Doesn't sound as if he's planning to be involved in the testing of whatever it was he found.
 
Lee's job is to do his best to throw some kind of doubt on the Body Farm results--so there are some VOCs found in the trunk he has to try to explain away.
One of the VOCs found is identified in both pig and human decomposition--another is identified in both dog and human decomposition. So it's not surprising that Lee picked HAM as his choice of meats which could have been in the trunk.(Body Farm tests were done on a pepperoni and mushroom pizza--so, no ham there) Next , Lee will prabably say that Casey ran over a dog in her travels.:rolleyes: Still there is a set of VOCs that were found in the trunk that the Body Farm defined as unique to human decomposition. So Henry's got some explaining to do...


The Body Farm was way ahead of them on this though. Here's a snip:


"Finally, we wish to discuss the possibility that these chemical signatures are of human origin.The decomposition odor products of animal remains (dog, deer, and pig-primarily bone)have been studied since these are the most commonly encountered in outdoor environments these animals can be distinguished from human remains by the percentages of chemicals
(ketones, amines, aldehydes and alcohols..."(SNIP)

It's possible Lee was calling the pepperoni ham. It's certainly an easier word to pronounce.
 
I think when she was texting Amy and others, when she said she had mommie duties and couldn't go out, I think she was lying. I think she was really out with other friends or other guys and didn't want Amy to know.
 
Well, what surprised me most of all regarding Dr.Lee, is that there was not one mention of squirrel.

The squirrel population of Fla must still be doing the happy dance :partyguy:. Reminds me of the Geico squirrel commercial. At least we know why THEY were hi-fivin' each other :clap:
 

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