WA WA - Shantina Smiley, 29, & Azriel Carver, 8 (fnd deceased), Olympia, Mar 2010 - #3

PaulR said:

By the way, I didn't know girls could join boy scouts. Is that new?

(Serious question.)

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She reminded me of this; I'd forgotten about Venture.

http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/Venturing.aspx

She says all adults are checked. Which makes me wonder if SS was actually a leader or simply helped RS.

I don't think RS had anything directly to do with the tragedy, but I think he suspected that something might be amiss ahead of time. Did something happen @ home before that Saturday?

SS left a clear trail that night about where she was - stopping @ several stores, bought a jug of wine, stopped at a diner but left without taking the food ordered, stopped at a house. In at least two of these locations, she said she was lost & asked for directions to I-5, which from my first post I have maintained didn't make sense, especially since it was reported that her grandfather said she visited Castle Rock recently.

She was @ the Williams' house approx. 10:00 pm, after driving around "lost" in Olympia for several hours, somehow unable to find I-5, even after looking at a map earlier & being given directions. Low tide @ the beach was approx. 10:34, give or take a few minutes, IIRC. IMO, she drove directly to the beach after leaving the Williams' house.

From the photos I've seen of that beach, it doesn't look like the kind of soft, loose sand that is easy to get stuck in. I've been stuck on a sandy beach before. The sand on that beach looks like it has a lot of beach rocks, shells, etc. - in other words - things that provide traction. Especially since it's been reported that shellfish are cultivated in those waters. Shellfish leave shells. Traction.

The getting lost in Olympia for that many hours is curious. It wasn't unfamiliar territory, if she'd been through there recently to visit the grandparents.

The driving to a remote, difficult to find beach in the dark is also curious, unless she'd been there before. Media & LE have both commented on how remote a location it is - they can't understand how she wound up there - the "opposite direction of her destination."

Leaving the cell phone behind.

Stopping @ so many different locations during those hours of "being lost". As if she wanted to leave a noticeable trail, and wanted a trail of witnesses that believed she was lost, confused, worried.

The van she was driving mysteriously stuck in the sand @ the water's edge with the hatch & door open. Mismatched shoes, an orange ball, a half-empty jug of wine, and an asthma inhaler found not far away. Her wallet & car key found in the van. But, mysteriously, her purse & overnight bag are missing.

Now her little boy has drowned.

And she is nowhere to be found.

If her body doesn't wash up on a beach in the near future, I'll be suspicious.

Knox said:

Thanks Calliope. The reason I ask is Shantina was also a leader, the last contact with CPS had been very recent? Is that not something that shows up on a background check?

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I'd think unless there were criminal charges, CPS investigations are private. I know with Aveion, for example, they didn't release specific info on their files until they knew he was deceased. But... wouldn't the DUI be a criminal charge?

Silver~Bell said:

I would not be surprised if more unhappy information comes out. People who have had kids taken away, allowed kids to be placed in danger, and so forth rarely just have one or two instances. The kids are often in danger again and again and again, until tragedy happens like it has.

Odds are SS is dead. I am sorry for her rotten life, but why give Azriel such a rotten life? By the way, the minute I heard his name I was perturbed. That is a very famous name, in literature, a lot of fantasy literature -- it's the name of the ANGEL OF DEATH. It seems to me to just be taking him so lightly to have named him that. Seems he didn't really COUNT, didn't really MATTER his whole short life. Oh yes, I'm angry.

----

To those who keep wondering about shouting, screaming in the water, I'm not really sure how many screams a person could get out in that extremely cold water if they were knocked off their feet and with the clothes soaked and pulling you down. The water is so cold it takes your breath away.

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The first thing I thought of was the smurfs. =\

darlin gal said:

It may be the Angel of Death in fantasy literature but it's actually Hebrew and doesn't mean that at ALL!

The meaning of the name Azriel is God Is My Aid
The origin of the name Azriel is Hebrew

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Yes, the name literally means 'God Is My Aid,' however, Azrael (also spelled Azriel) is The Archangel of Death.

I had the same initial gut reaction as Silver~Bell and others.

Azrael

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Jump to: navigation, search
This article is about the angel of death. For other uses, see Azriel.
Not to be confused with Sir Azreal, a Knight of the Round Table.
Artistic depiction of Azrael, the Angel of Death.


Azrael is the traditional name of the Archangel of Death. He is also the Angel of Death in Islamic extrabiblical tradition and folklore. It is an English form of the Arabic name Azra'il (عزرائي&#1604 or Azra'eil (عزرای&#1604, the name traditionally attributed to the angel of death in Islam and some Hebrew lore.[1] The Qur'an never uses this name, referring instead to Malak al-Maut (which translates directly as angel of death). It is also spelled Izrail, Izrael, "Azriel", Azrail, Ezraeil, Azraille, Azryel, or Ozryel. Chambers English dictionary uses the spelling Azrael. The name literally means Whom God Helps.[1]

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Thanks,
Soulscape

Lipin One said:

Please refer to Idaho4Groenes post #113. Thank you.

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As the person he was speaking to, I didn't take what he said as anything but a genuine question. I asked the same thing when my daughter told me she was now a boy scout lol. Also (IIRC), scouting in other countries is often coed. I'll check with her but I remember her telling me of a scout troop from England (I think) who spent time at the boy scout camp, and they consisted of both boys and girls.

alsmom said:

Actually, I believe that the Angel of Death is Azrael, totally different than Azriel.

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Azriel is one of a number of variant spellings of Azrael, "who is is generally depicted as an archangel (...) Rather than merely representing death personified, Azrael is usually described in Islamic sources as subordinate to the will of God 'with the most profound reverence.' In Jewish mysticism he is identified as the embodiment of evil, not necessarily or specifically evil itself."
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azrael)

While the name Azriel is an unusual one, several important figures - rabbis, Talmudic scholars, journalists, professors - have shared the name.
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azriel)

Calliope said:

I'd think unless there were criminal charges, CPS investigations are private. I know with Aveion, for example, they didn't release specific info on their files until they knew he was deceased. But... wouldn't the DUI be a criminal charge?

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What you are saying makes sense now that I think about it. CPS investigations would only be relevant if criminal charges were filed as a result of said investigation.

I am not trying to be judgmental, just wondering how thoroughly people who work with children are checked out in organizations like the Scouts. The DUI was also H&R IIRC, so yes I think it would be on a person's record.

Knox said:

What you are saying makes sense now that I think about it. CPS investigations would only be relevant if criminal charges were filed as a result of said investigation.

I am not trying to be judgmental, just wondering how thoroughly people who work with children are checked out in organizations like the Scouts. The DUI was also H&R IIRC, so yes I think it would be on a person's record.

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Ah, you know what. She wouldn't have had a criminal record on the DUI:

A Kitsap Sun search of court records revealed that Smiley was charged with DUI and hit and run in April 2005. She received a deferred prosecution, according to the Cowlitz County Clerk’s Office, meaning that her charges would be dropped if she stayed out of trouble. It appears the deferred prosecution was to last five years, and she’d had no problems since. It’s set to end April 13, 2010.

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http://www.kitsapsun.com/news/2010/mar/17/missing-silverdale-woman-had-a-dui-and-order-in/


That means she was never prosecuted, never convicted, and so no criminal record.

This is the Boy Scouts Adult application (pdf): http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/28-501.pdf

It states a criminal background check will be done and has a place for the applicant to indicate if they've been convicted of a criminal offense and if their drivers license had been suspended.

I don't know if a DUI precludes a leadership position but there is a strict no alcohol policy at scouting events.

Here's a link to the WA state petition for Deferred Prosecution (Word doc): http://www.courts.wa.gov/forms/documents/CrRLJ 04.1100_012010.doc

But wait again ...

It says the DUI was in '05 and prosecution was deferred if she didn't get into any further trouble. She was investigated by CPS in '07? For neglect r/t alcohol intoxication? That's when they took him away and made her go to rehab.

Clearly, there needs to be a system where records like this are shared among state agencies. Had the prosecutor known of her CPS case involving alcohol, they would have gone through with pressing charges and conviction.

At the very least, she wouldn't have had a license to drive and this may have been avoided altogether.

powayparent said:

This is the Boy Scouts Adult application (pdf): http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/28-501.pdf

It states a criminal background check will be done and has a place for the applicant to indicate if they've been convicted of a criminal offense and if their drivers license had been suspended.

I don't know if a DUI precludes a leadership position but there is a strict no alcohol policy at scouting events.

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It would if it hadn't been a deferred prosecution. She could truthfully have said she'd never been convicted.

sorrell skye said:

The driving to a remote, difficult to find beach in the dark is also curious, unless she'd been there before. Media & LE have both commented on how remote a location it is - they can't understand how she wound up there - the "opposite direction of her destination."

Leaving the cell phone behind.
Her wallet & car key found in the van. But, mysteriously, her purse & overnight bag are missing.

Now her little boy has drowned.

And she is nowhere to be found.

If her body doesn't wash up on a beach in the near future, I'll be suspicious.

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I agree....and I am guessing she might have been kidnapped, OR... she plannned to runaway and leave the boy behind. But, I'm not sure she planned on him drowning.

Calliope said:

It would if it hadn't been a deferred prosecution. She could truthfully have said she'd never been convicted.

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I'd hope her license would have been suspended and in the explanation for the suspension she'd have to indicate it had been a DUI.

I found this on an attorney's site (haven't fact checked source):

Deferred Prosecution Conditions

The required two-year substance addiction treatment program is quite rigorous and occurs in three phases. Additionally, two Alcoholics Anonymous or other self-help meetings per week are required for the full two years, and can be required for the entire five year period. The DUI defendant is also placed on supervised probation, which means that they may be required to meet on a regular basis with a probation officer and must pay for those services. Additionally, the Deferred Prosecution requires installation of the Ignition Interlock Device for at least one year.

Soulscape said:

Yes, the name literally means 'God Is My Aid,' however, Azrael (also spelled Azriel) is The Archangel of Death.

I had the same initial gut reaction as Silver~Bell and others.

Thanks,
Soulscape

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Azriel or Azrael is also the cat Gargamel had in the children's cartoon The Smurfs, who many of us grew up with.

Just a thought, in case nobody had mentioned before.

Calliope said:

Ah, you know what. She wouldn't have had a criminal record on the DUI:



http://www.kitsapsun.com/news/2010/mar/17/missing-silverdale-woman-had-a-dui-and-order-in/


That means she was never prosecuted, never convicted, and so no criminal record.

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The interesting thing is that that case number (from what I remember seeing earlier today) goes back to 2001 and was then revisited in 2005. Not sure if she had an incident in 2001 then another incident in 2005.

http://dw.courts.wa.gov/

Is it known that she definitely had an overnight bag packed? I seem to recall she did not...

That would greatly change her possible intentions.

SusanB said:

Is it known that she definitely had an overnight bag packed? I seem to recall she did not...

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There was an article I posted yesterday stating that she had in fact carried an overnight bag and purse. That was confirmed by LE.

It's odd to me that everything washed up to shore in the same area, but nothing out of her purse which I would imagine to be unzipped if her wallet was out.

90Nine said:

There was an article I posted yesterday stating that she had in fact carried an overnight bag and purse. That was confirmed by LE.

It's odd to me that everything washed up to shore in the same area, but nothing out of her purse which I would imagine to be unzipped if her wallet was out.

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She's seen pulling her wallet out of the front pocket of her sweatshirt. She may have tossed it onto the seat or in the center console rather than putting it back in her purse.