TN - Holly Bobo, 20, Darden; believed abducted 13 April 2011 - #35

Straitfan · Oct 2, 2012

wfgodot said:
It started as a "think outside the box" list.

Dont get me wrong, I think it's a great list!

~n/t~ · Oct 2, 2012

lilsleuth said:
http://neighbors.whitepages.com/search/neighbor_search/681-Swan-Johnson-Rd/Darden,-TN-38328-4830

The link above is an aerial view of the woods and the houses that are nearest to the Bobos. Press the zoom out button once and you can see all the neighbors and roads clearer.

In the picture below, Karen is looking into the direction of where Clint was when he saw Holly being led away into the woods. Karen and the reporter are standing at the point where he sees them both.

Looking at the White Pages map you can see where the pool is getting a better idea of the direction the kidnapper and Holly walked.

Interesting facts to consider retrieved from Google Maps:

The closest neighbor is about a 7 min walk away.

Holly's school is approximately 15-17 minutes (6.1 miles) away with the route headed southeast from Holly's house and in the direction of the closest neighbor's house.

Well, I'm confused again. If that is where Clint saw the perp and Holly, how could he have heard them talking? If you have the link handy, please post, if not, I'll dig it up later.

NEVERMIND: I think I answered my own question. They were at the spot where Karen is and then he sees them walking towards the wooded area near the pool, right?

~n/t~ · Oct 2, 2012

IIRC, one of our members mentioned the confidentiality agreement was put on later. Maybe a month ago.

~n/t~ · Oct 2, 2012

reedus23 said:
Good points and I think they have.

Getting back to the theories, are there any we can start taking off of the list because they're not supported by the facts. For example, DS or CB being involved. I'm not sure I'm read to take aliens off yet, but can we start narrowing it down now?

Unfortunately, we have only heard one version of the "facts".

~n/t~ · Oct 2, 2012

wfgodot said:
Okay, here's the master list (again). Tell me which to eliminate:

01. The "Boyfriend, afraid of losing her" KEEP
02. The "Holly knew too much" KEEP
03. The "In town, just passing through" KEEP
04. The "Girlfriend got jealous" REMOVE
05. The "Holly ran away on her own" REMOVE
06. The "Rogue LE" KEEP
07. The "Sibling involvement" KEEP
08. The "Holly's girlfriend's boyfriend cheated" REMOVE
09. The "Retribution against a family member" KEEP
10. The "Accidental death w/cover-up" KEEP
11. The "Preacher, brimming with passion" KEEP
12. The "Rogue spokespastor" KEEP
13. The "Victim of a serial offender" KEEP
14. The "Knew her though churchwork" KEEP
15. The "Kidnapped her to keep her" REMOVE
16. The "Rogue coon hunter" KEEP
17. The "Man who tossed Drew and his dad off the property" REMOVE
18. The "Rogue secret twin brother" REMOVE
19. The "Wheel in the sky keeps on turning" - wait, that's not one LOL
19. The "Random hunter who stumbled across the Bobo property" REMOVE
20. The "Known stalker" REMOVE
21. The "They know who dunnit but can't close the deal" KEEP
22. The "Mountain man who eluded the bloodhounds" REMOVE
23. The "Those pesky aliens in their UFOs" REMOVE
24. The "Bigfoot in full turkey camo" REMOVE
25. The "Odd person who leaves little messages" REMOVE
26. The "Fell victim to human trafficking" REMOVE
27. The "Rogue militia" REMOVE
28. The "Masonic cabal" REMOVE
29. The "Rogue Calabrese" REMOVE
30. The "Cabin 16" REMOVE
31. The "Homeless Hobo" REMOVE
32. The Serial Predator KEEP
33. The Loved One ??
34. The Passerby REMOVE
35. The Friend KEEP
36. The Acquaintance KEEP
37. The Accessory After the Fact REMOVE

My opinions to narrowing down the list. Some intertwine but it's a start.

wfgodot · Oct 2, 2012

~n/t~ said:
My opinions to narrowing down the list. Some intertwine but it's a start.

About exactly the ones I'd keep/remove. 32-37 I think I'd keep for now as each can be - with additions perhaps - inclusive of one or more of the original 31.

Let's see who checks in today and has an opinion.

Still liking the 02 - 09 - 21 trifecta, myself.

~n/t~ · Oct 2, 2012

wfgodot said:
About exactly the ones I'd keep/remove. 32-37 I think I'd keep for now as each can be - with additions perhaps - inclusive of one or more of the original 31.

Let's see who checks in today and has an opinion.

Still liking the 02 - 09 - 21 trifecta, myself.

I think it was a great excercise but unfortunately we're left with the same theories floating around since day 1. Unless and until LE says something soon or we get a break in the case that will narrow down the list, we will be here years from now still debating the whodunit.

wfgodot · Oct 2, 2012

~n/t~ said:
I think it was a great excercise but unfortunately we're left with the same theories floating around since day 1. Unless and until LE says something soon or we get a break in the case that will narrow down the list, we will be here years from now still debating the whodunit.

Quite true.

I was interested to note that a couple others also thought the perp could be known to Holly through churchwork of one sort or another. Surprised, actually.

~n/t~ · Oct 2, 2012

wfgodot said:
Quite true.

I was interested to note that a couple others also thought the perp could be known to Holly through churchwork of one sort or another. Surprised, actually.

The churchwork person was my second theory all along. I even mentioned this case. http://www.norfolkdailynews.com/new...cle_9521da68-cc3d-11e1-9d76-001a4bcf6878.html

I also made mention Karen Swift's case. Her body was found near a cemetery. Not that I think the 2 cases are related but, imo, if the person had remorse of some sort perhaps a church or cemetery would have been where the body was buried or disposed of. :moo:

wfgodot · Oct 2, 2012

~n/t~ said:
The churchwork person was my second theory all along. I even mentioned this case. http://www.norfolkdailynews.com/new...cle_9521da68-cc3d-11e1-9d76-001a4bcf6878.html

I also made mention Karen Swift's case. Her body was found near a cemetery. Not that I think the 2 cases are related but, imo, if the person had remorse of some sort perhaps a church or cemetery would have been where the body was buried or disposed of. :moo:

Holly's churchiness was sure stressed early and often - attendance, choir, good works - enough that I wondered if someone was trying to tell us something, perhaps subconsciously.

~n/t~ · Oct 2, 2012

wfgodot said:
Holly's churchiness was sure stressed early and often - attendance, choir, good works - enough that I wondered if someone was trying to tell us something, perhaps subconsciously.

Not too long ago on the AMW episode is when they released that video of Holly singing in church. Was that in anyway meant to send a message to the perp, perhaps?:moo:

My 3rd. out of the box theory is Holly having to be a witness at a trial. No basis whatsoever on this theory but it could be combined with "family retribution" theory that is already out there.

Foxfire · Oct 2, 2012

wfgodot said:
Above (at #204) I pondered in what direction our theories might lead us if Clint had seen nothing at all.

wfgodot, I think that we have a pretty good idea based on the Adam Leroy Lane investigation and investigative statistics. Add a little circumstantial evidence to the mix, a plausible scenario by a believable and over aggressive prosecutor, and we would be witnessing a trial of an ex-boyfriend, or the last person to see Holly, or she may have even been classified as an endangered runaway...

Imo, Clint waking up and witnessing the abduction abruptly changed the abductors original plans on the morning of 04/13/2011. The abductor would have heard rascal barking & more than likely observed Clint peering out the window at them.. Then the perp would have had a few options; run like hell, or pretend to be casually walking into the woods with a compliant Holly(ruse).

If armed and pursued by Clint, into the tree line. It is very possible that the Bobos would have lost another child that day..

Foxfire · Oct 2, 2012

nursebeeme said:
he could have been watching the house. Jet Duncan did it. Also: hunters in my area park their cars off the road, etc..

It can be planned and still fit any of those scenarios imhoo.

nursebeeme, Jet Duncan, BS Lavergne, Gary Hilton, the Forest Hills rapist, and many other predators prior stalked their victims.

Predators/serial killers are hunters. Simply a sport to them.. Some get very good at it over time.

That's what gets me when folks say, 'well that predator/SK seems awfully stupid'.. At times I think it is just part of their act.. Once predator/sk BS Lavergne was arrested on 07/05/2012, many folks had profiled him as being dumb as a rock. Yet once the psychological evaluation results were released, the opposite was shown to be true..
http://www.theadvertiser.com/articl...evaluation?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE

Many/most predators/serial killers are very creative, calculating, deflective, manipulative yet live in a fantasy world. They'll be whoever they want to be, & when they want to be them. Some have more other selves/personalities than Sibel..

Consider that it is estimated that .05% of the population is sociopath/psychopath. Imo, these numb3rs are sketchy at best and are on the rise. Psychopaths know right from wrong. All psychopaths don't choose the wrong path, but imo, understand the thought process of the ones that do.

An updated BTK documentary aired a couple of weeks ago on Discovery ID; Dark Minds series. It was very informative & delved into his mind and his formative years. I did not know that BTK was an emulator of another prolific CA Serial Killer. BTK; pure evil had escalated into sadistic ritualistic killings, necrophila, etc.
BTK, is an excellent example of evil, & a psychopaths ability to portray a chameleon like existence for decades among family and friends.

BTK was an active serial killer for 3+ decades while maintaining a normal family/social/religious life.
BTK achievied a BS in Admin of Criminology Justice from WSU/KS..
BTK claimed demonic possession..
BTK Ordinance Compliance Officer/Dog Catcher
BTK Honorably discharged from Military-USAF
BTK ADT Home Security installer/supervisor

BTK said, that he got as much or more satisfaction/pleasure out of stalking his intended victims; the hunt, as he did in the sadistical torturing & killing of them.

Foxfire · Oct 2, 2012

OT- FYI- update on amber alert TN

http://www.examiner.com/article/amb...parents-died-fire?CID=examiner_alerts_article

Amber Alert issued for Tenn. children missing after grandparents died in fire..

The children were last seen playing in the neighborhood about three hours before the fire at 9:30 p.m. a week ago Sunday. The Tennessee Bureau of Investigation issued an Amber Alert Friday night. They classified the missing children “endangered.”

It was first believed the brother and sister died in the fire with their grandparents. After more than a week of sifting through ashes and debris investigators say they have found no sign of the children.

The TBI said in a news release announcing the Amber Alert that multiple fire experts processed the debris of the burned-down farmhouse and found no trace of the children.

Authorities say they don’t know what caused the fire, adding to the mystery. Helm said the TBI does not have any direct evidence that the children are victims of foul play. She said there are no persons of interest in the case and that investigators are following all leads, but would not elaborate.

read more-

reedus23 · Oct 2, 2012

Straitfan said:
Would say all but about 3 of them could be removed.. My opinion isnt listed but will withhold as to not offend anyone.

If we can include bigfoot I don't think you will offend anyone. I think it's important to put all theories out there and then be willing to debate, analyze them without feeling like we are being attacked. I would welcome your theory and hope you decide to share.

shefner · Oct 2, 2012

Foxfire said:
wfgodot, I think that we have a pretty good idea based on the Adam Leroy Lane investigation and investigative statistics. Add a little circumstantial evidence to the mix, a plausible scenario by a believable and over aggressive prosecutor, and we would be witnessing a trial of an ex-boyfriend, or the last person to see Holly, or she may have even been classified as an endangered runaway...

Imo, Clint waking up and witnessing the abduction abruptly changed the abductors original plans on the morning of 04/13/2011. The abductor would have heard rascal barking & more than likely observed Clint peering out the window at them.. Then the perp would have had a few options; run like hell, or pretend to be casually walking into the woods with a compliant Holly(ruse).

If armed and pursued by Clint, into the tree line. It is very possible that the Bobos would have lost another child that day..

Foxfire, I think run like hell was out. He had already hurt Holly in some way, even if I believe that was not his original intention. For whatever reason, I think this local perp knew Clint was there and didn't care. This makes me surmise that he knew Clint personally and knew his tendencies.
I think Holly knew the perp. I think she thought she could go with him and talk him into reason.

shefner · Oct 2, 2012

wfgodot said:
The list (see above) is still awaiting your pruning or re-organizing suggestions. Tell me what you think. It's our list.

I suggest placing the most likely scenarios at the top and organizing down from there. I suggest taking our aliens and bigfoot and putting them in a class by themselves. I can't bear to totally discard them....they are near and dear and they make me laugh. And we need to laugh to keep from crying.

I think LE knows the perp but can't nail him. It seems most of us feel this way too....so maybe that could go at the top. Retribution and Holly knew too much seem to be popular as well...so they should top the list also.

If our thread members will list their top 3 numbers, I will attempt to compile them into a list, ranking from the most likely to the least, according to our ideas. (I helped my husband in his doctoral dissertation do the same, as he had to administer hundreds of individual tests concerning people's content retention after hearing speeches using varying mnemonic devices. He had to write and administer the speeches, write and administer the tests, and record all the results....taking into consideration the person's nutritional habits, education, and use of stimulants, such as nicotine and caffeine and their degree of understanding based on the particular mnemonic device used. Let's just say there was a lot to calculate. But we did it. I asked his chairman if I could receive a doctorate also...but it was a no go. Stupid chair.)

After we get everyone's top 3 ideas, Woof can list them for us. Woof go dot is so good at lists! (and many other things, I might add).

ETA: We will put everything back on the list....but the most popular ideas will go up top.

shefner · Oct 2, 2012

wfgodot said:
Okay, here's the master list (again). Tell me which to eliminate:

01. The "Boyfriend, afraid of losing her"
02. The "Holly knew too much"
03. The "In town, just passing through"
04. The "Girlfriend got jealous"
05. The "Holly ran away on her own"
06. The "Rogue LE"
07. The "Sibling involvement"
08. The "Holly's girlfriend's boyfriend cheated"
09. The "Retribution against a family member"
10. The "Accidental death w/cover-up"
11. The "Preacher, brimming with passion"
12. The "Rogue spokespastor"
13. The "Victim of a serial offender"
14. The "Knew her though churchwork"
15. The "Kidnapped her to keep her"
16. The "Rogue coon hunter"
17. The "Man who tossed Drew and his dad off the property"
18. The "Rogue secret twin brother"
19. The "Wheel in the sky keeps on turning" - wait, that's not one
19. The "Random hunter who stumbled across the Bobo property"
20. The "Known stalker"
21. The "They know who dunnit but can't close the deal"
22. The "Mountain man who eluded the bloodhounds"
23. The "Those pesky aliens in their UFOs"
24. The "Bigfoot in full turkey camo"
25. The "Odd person who leaves little messages"
26. The "Fell victim to human trafficking"
27. The "Rogue militia"
28. The "Masonic cabal"
29. The "Rogue Calabrese"
30. The "Cabin 16"
31. The "Homeless Hobo"
32. The Serial Predator
33. The Loved One
34. The Passerby
35. The Friend
36. The Acquaintance
37. The Accessory After the Fact

21, 2, 9 In that order and perhaps in combination

reedus23 · Oct 2, 2012

Ok, here's my attempt at it. Obviously tell me where you agree or disagree.

wfgodot said:
Okay, here's the master list (again). Tell me which to eliminate:

01. The "Boyfriend, afraid of losing her" The timing does not work with him across the county, which presumably can be confirmed by other means. Plus, witnesses in family members and work don't allow for this theory.
02. The "Holly knew too much"I'd leave this one as a possibility because it doesn't require omitting any known facts and there have certainly been some facts reported that such an element was present in Parsons and surrounding areas. While I don't know if Holly knew too much, the criminal element of Parsons can certainly be involved. So keep it IMO.
03. The "In town, just passing through"Too many random factors for me. Someone just in town and passing through wouldn't know the roads, the house or that Holly was there. I'd drop it.
04. The "Girlfriend got jealous"Would drop it because CB's description is that of a male.
05. The "Holly ran away on her own"Drop it. Enough said.
06. The "Rogue LE"I suppose could survive the first cut. For me, it could be grouped in the remote acquaintance category where that person could come from LE, church, friends, school etc...
07. The "Sibling involvement"Drop it. Should be able to say enough said, but suffice it say he couldn't have taken Holly more than a mile away in the time allowed. Drop it.
08. The "Holly's girlfriend's boyfriend cheated"I get a headache trying to follow it. So did gf's bf cheat with Holly and then kill Holly? I'd drop it because I don't know of any facts that support that.
09. The "Retribution against a family member"I think it survives the first cut. This too could be the criminal element that facts show is present. Could be someone fired by DB. Could be that remote acquaintance.
10. The "Accidental death w/cover-up"Drop it. Enough said.
11. The "Preacher, brimming with passion"Keep it. See number 6.
12. The "Rogue spokespastor"Keep it. See number 6.
13. The "Victim of a serial offender"Keep it. Until I hear what exactly rules someone like Britt out, his proximity, his whereabouts and his nature concern me.
14. The "Knew her though churchwork"Keep it. See number 6.
15. The "Kidnapped her to keep her"I wouldn't have a problem if it survived the first cut, but I don't think it's likely. I'd put the chances at 5%. Personally, I'd drop it based on the nature of the abduction, and statistics that say this just doesn't happen frequently.
16. The "Rogue coon hunter"Keep it. See number 6.
17. The "Man who tossed Drew and his dad off the property"Drop it for much the same reasons as DS is dropped.
18. The "Rogue secret twin brother"I'll have to defer. I'm not aware of a twin brother so I'd drop. But if others are aware of something else that says it's so, keep it.
19. The "Wheel in the sky keeps on turning" - wait, that's not oneI went back and looked at this earlier and already forgot what proposition it stands for. Suppose keep it and I'll go back and read it again.
19. The "Random hunter who stumbled across the Bobo property"It's feasible but not likely in my opinion. It could survive a first cut I suppose. Just too many factors that cut against in IMHO.
20. The "Known stalker"If there is evidence of this, keep it. Otherwise I'd drop it.
21. The "They know who dunnit but can't close the deal"I'd keep it. Whether for nefarious reasons or just lack of evidence, I have to believe LE has a fair idea of who was involved.
22. The "Mountain man who eluded the bloodhounds"Drop it.
23. The "Those pesky aliens in their UFOs" Drop it.
24. The "Bigfoot in full turkey camo" Drop it.
25. The "Odd person who leaves little messages" If there is some fact to support it, keep it. If not, drop it.
26. The "Fell victim to human trafficking"Drop it.
27. The "Rogue militia"Drop it.
28. The "Masonic cabal"Drop it.
29. The "Rogue Calabrese"Drop it.
30. The "Cabin 16"Drop it.
31. The "Homeless Hobo"Drop it.
32. The Serial PredatorKeep it, but thought this was number 13.
33. The Loved OneIf this means a family member or boyfriend did it, drop it.
34. The PasserbySee number 3.
35. The FriendDrop it.
36. The Acquaintance Keep it.
37. The Accessory After the Fact

Keep it because it doesn't take much to be an accessory after the fact.

Those were my thoughts. Not trying to remove all theories I disagree with. Just trying to see if any can be pared down without much disagreement and then maybe hashing out the remaining, smaller list will lead us to a second round of cuts.

Hatfield · Oct 2, 2012

wfgodot said:
About exactly the ones I'd keep/remove. 32-37 I think I'd keep for now as each can be - with additions perhaps - inclusive of one or more of the original 31.

Let's see who checks in today and has an opinion.

Still liking the 02 - 09 - 21 trifecta, myself.

IMO
I agree too with the ones listed that can be removed.

I also agree the 2/9/21 seems to be one of the possibilities because it is such an outrageous thing that has happened, and that particular theory combination kind of fits in with the outrageousness of it all.

It is surprising that there are so many possibilities. It is hard to narrow it down without some other information or some more evidence that could help eliminate some of the possibilities.

Thanks to all who contributed to this list. I think the answer is most likely up there in some combination form.

TN - Holly Bobo, 20, Darden; believed abducted 13 April 2011 - #35

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