AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - # 7

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These are the things to me (drugs) and being AZ, that make me suspect someone from Mexico! Sadly you don't want to mess with someones drugs or money...they can get up close very quick! As I posted earlier could be wrong house, wrong child! I pray noone in that house was involved with any drug deals south of the border, it can be a costly mistake! I am sure LE is looking at this possibility!:banghead:

That crossed my mind too.. But more like what if Isabel was 'traded' for drugs/debt.. I can't remember the little girl's name, but anyone else remember the case where a mom gave her own daughter to a man for a drug/sex exchange? There were surveillance photos of the man carrying the little girl into a hotel elevator, where he raped and then killed the little girl. IIRC, the mother originally claimed/told police that her daughter was missing or kidnapped. I feel bad that I can't remember that sweet little girl's name... The story upset me greatly... It was such a horrific situation
 
To me (maybe not anybody else?), there is still confusion about this "uncle":

1. How is he an uncle (SC's brother, BC's brother, some other relation but not really an "uncle" by definition;

2. Was he staying at the house or did he arrive in the morning?

If the uncle is involved, I cannot imagine SC helping him cover up the scene of his own child, unless of course he was involved as well, which I don't think at this point........

I do have to say though last night (maybe on NG or the show after hers), they ran a clip of the infamous Susan Smith begging for her boys' lives and she never looked up to the camera. It was eerily similar to SC's news conference.

There was a LOT of other things that added to Susan Smith being suspected almost at once by people. That the boys were kidnapped in front of her, the description of a black male, her personal situation etc. The whole scenario was far hinkier than a child kidnapped in the dead of night Her crocodile tears were just the icing on the cake and an added outrage.

Dad cried like a lot of men I know, shaking more than blubbering. Not really a cry so much as a break down. Far as looking to the camera, without experience in public speaking I am sure he just focused on something to get through the statement.

I always thought that Diena Somers and Mark Lunsford were such effective advocates for their daughters because they were equally angry as devastated and the anger let them be clear and determined in multiple public statements, looking at the cameras almost defying the perp to stay hidden. Not everyone can react that way.
 
That crossed my mind too.. But more like what if Isabel was 'traded' for drugs/debt.. I can't remember the little girl's name, but anyone else remember the case where a mom gave her own daughter to a man for a drug/sex exchange? There were surveillance photos of the man carrying the little girl into a hotel elevator, where he raped and then killed the little girl. IIRC, the mother originally claimed/told police that her daughter was missing or kidnapped. I feel bad that I can't remember that sweet little girl's name... The story upset me greatly... It was such a horrific situation

This is the case you are talking about!

http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/story?section=news/local&id=8234936
 
That crossed my mind too.. But more like what if Isabel was 'traded' for drugs/debt.. I can't remember the little girl's name, but anyone else remember the case where a mom gave her own daughter to a man for a drug/sex exchange? There were surveillance photos of the man carrying the little girl into a hotel elevator, where he raped and then killed the little girl. IIRC, the mother originally claimed/told police that her daughter was missing or kidnapped. I feel bad that I can't remember that sweet little girl's name... The story upset me greatly... It was such a horrific situation

Shaniya Davis iirc. In that case there was evidence of bad lifestyle choices, drugs, etc. There is not an iota of evidence to suggest drugs. The fact they live in AZ and have a hispanic background does not a drug trafficker make.
 
I'm off to play soccer mom this morning in e freezing cold!!! But will be lurking on mobile, hoping something breaks today.

Wanted to say a big thank you to all for the maps, the videos, the sleuthing, the scanner folks, etc. I haven't been able to participate as much as I wish I could this week, so all your posts have made it so easy to follow along. :blowkiss:
 
Shaniya Davis iirc. In that case there was evidence of bad lifestyle choices, drugs, etc. There is not an iota of evidence to suggest drugs. The fact they live in AZ and have a hispanic background does not a drug trafficker make.

I agree, just adding the possibilty...and as I posted, I add could be wrong house, wrong child! IMO
 
Ok, just watched the video on my iPhone. My screen is small so I'm sure what I saw is the mysterious figure or not. Is it on the opposite side of the walkers in the upper corner?


I am watching on my kindle and had to watch it twice. In that corner I saw movement but then it looked like trees blowing. I'm not sure if I am l9oking in the right spot. And this tree looks like its on the other side.
 
That crossed my mind too.. But more like what if Isabel was 'traded' for drugs/debt.. I can't remember the little girl's name, but anyone else remember the case where a mom gave her own daughter to a man for a drug/sex exchange? There were surveillance photos of the man carrying the little girl into a hotel elevator, where he raped and then killed the little girl. IIRC, the mother originally claimed/told police that her daughter was missing or kidnapped. I feel bad that I can't remember that sweet little girl's name... The story upset me greatly... It was such a horrific situation

I think you are talking about Shaniya Davis ?
 
Would drug cartels snatch a child from their bedroom? Wouldn't they just kidnap the entire family or do a home invasion and kill them all?


Hundreds of kidnappings for ransom occur in Arizona every year. However, these mostly have to do with drugs and/or illegal aliens. And I don't think stealth is a priority. I think if a cartel had something to do with this they wouldn't have done it in this way.
 
I am watching on my kindle and had to watch it twice. In that corner I saw movement but then it looked like trees blowing. I'm not sure if I am l9oking in the right spot. And this tree looks like its on the other side.

On the left side of the video, around the :49 mark, you can see someone look like they are coming from behind the tree or along the wall. It's after the group of 5 is out of the parking lot. It's a very white shadowy figure but definitely someone who seemed to be hiding.

Have the police mentioned this person, because as I watch the video over and over, it seems like it's clipped right after the figure emerges. I can't imagine the police wouldn't have seen it and me thinks there was intention of where the clip ended.

Now where is the rest of it?
 
The curtains were "sheers " ? I have not read that before. They were described as "blinds " at one point... MOO

I saw a light-colored sheer curtain hanging on Isabel's window on NG with no blinds.

If the abduction occurred in the middle of the night, the kidnapper might have shone a flashlight into Isabel’s room and it didn’t wake her up.

I’m not convinced the male voices the next-door-neighbor heard at 6:30 AM were Isabel’s abductors.

What age does the male appear to be on the video ?
 
Shaniya Davis iirc. In that case there was evidence of bad lifestyle choices, drugs, etc. There is not an iota of evidence to suggest drugs. The fact they live in AZ and have a hispanic background does not a drug trafficker make.

I wasn't trying to make a blanket statement that anyone that lives in AZ and is hispanic are drug traffickers or have anything to do w/ drugs. It just appears to me that the person(s) who took Isabel were close enough to her, they knew where she would be sleeping, knew the house layout, weren't scared off by barking dogs, and not terribly concerned they would be caught in the act. I have no doubt Isabel's mom is 100% drug free...as a nurse, she is subject to drug testing. But we don't know about 'uncles', cousins, or others close to Isabel.
 
Have there been any cases where a biological parent murdered a child and the other parent covered up for them? This would exclude the horrific child abuse cases where both parents are involved and exclude the mother's boyfriend cases where the mother covers up for the bf. I'm talking about cases where there was no abuse but for whatever reason one parent snapped and the other one stood by them and covered up the crime.

The reason I ask is I don't see how a spouse regardless of how many years they've been married murders the child and then they stand beside him or her and protect them from prosecution. I would be the first to call the cops if my husband murdered my child.

I don't get that. I'm not saying that is at all the case here but just wondering if there have been any PROVEN cases where this has happened. I can't think of any.

I can't think of any, either. Nor any where another family member (uncle, etc.) murdered the child and one or both parents stood by them. Of course, there's always the possibility that these parents don't know or suspect this uncle, and could be completely fooled, but still.
I know LE has to look at family first, but this LE in particular doesn't give me the impression that they are suspicious of the family at all. I could be wrong.
As for the parents, Isa is their baby girl, their only daughter. Why on earth would they have any reason to murder this beautiful child?? Doesn't make sense. But I would bet that LE is checking out this uncle, it would make no sense not to.
 
Listening to the parents' accents, I'm going to say, I don't think English is their first language, so personally I can't put much into the uncle using the past tense.

What does the parents first language not being English have to do with the (English speaking) "uncle" using past tense when talking about Isabel?? Am I missing something?
 
As far as I am concerned this just cements my view it is a kidnapping by an unknown person. (or maybe family friend, neighbor etc.).

They would not have released this unless they believed it is someone out there, in fact the BAU wouldn't have even flown in imo. They do telephone and fax consults all the time and if they believed it was an inside job the local LE could handle that with the local FBI agents in concert. No need for a whole team to fly in for that. This was due to LE and FBI's belief it was an outside job.

I have read enough of these profiles from reading the books by Robert Ressler and John Douglas/Mark Olshaker to know that this is very much how they profile an unsub not a parent.

THey cant clear the parents until someone else is arrested though because there is always a 1% chance they are wrong.
The police release you are referring to is a whole lot of nothing. There is nothing there at all, some gibberish about someone changing their routine this that and the other. This tells me they dont even have a basic profile yet.

Not to mention the fact that any police statement prior to an arrest is likely to be propaganda of some sort. LE lies a lot, I know why they do it, I get it, but you cant take it all literally, for example they may be looking the parents right now to get them to relax to loosen up they release a statement like the one above talking as if they know it is an abduction by a kidnapper to get the parents thinking the attention is not on them but on someone else, they loosen up begin to talk a little more openly all the while LEO has them bugged and is listening and watching their every move.

Again there just isnt anything there so it tells me it is either propaganda to get people looking one way while LEO sneaks around in another direction or they simply GOT NOTHING not even a basic BAU profile.

When I logged on to AZStarNet this a.m., it wasn't even on the front page anymore. Just a big article about Ted Nugent. No links either to the side where they list top news. After about a minute it automatically moved from Nugent to Isa on the front picture. Really? She's been missing a week and Ted Nugent takes top stage?

Tucson isnt that big, everyone here reads the paper and they have read about this story for a week now, the fact that it isnt on the front page anymore tells me THEY HAVE NOTHING NEW TO REPORT, it isnt sound business to keep reprinting the same stuff on the front page, you can be CERTAIN the minute there is something new to report it will be on the front page. Bottom line here, LEO has nada, zilch, nothing wrt to this case and who the perp is. It is very sad because it is becoming evident that poor lil girl may not be found alive and that breaks my heart!

Would drug cartels snatch a child from their bedroom? Wouldn't they just kidnap the entire family or do a home invasion and kill them all?

Not likely! And yes, the second part of your statement is much more likely, if the cartels are involved youre talking about a lot of drugs and money, not a dime bag and a 100 bucks.

This is why I can not watch Nancy Gracy anymore...her brain just randomly fires and anyone could be hit! She appears to have no moral compass! IMO

She is all about the sensationalism, while I appreciate the fact that she focuses on missing children she often sacrifices the truth and accuracy for that which shocks and brings in more viewers and that disgusts me.

That crossed my mind too.. But more like what if Isabel was 'traded' for drugs/debt.. I can't remember the little girl's name, but anyone else remember the case where a mom gave her own daughter to a man for a drug/sex exchange? There were surveillance photos of the man carrying the little girl into a hotel elevator, where he raped and then killed the little girl. IIRC, the mother originally claimed/told police that her daughter was missing or kidnapped. I feel bad that I can't remember that sweet little girl's name... The story upset me greatly... It was such a horrific situation


If the cartels were involved everyone would know it by now, they dont take kids to molest them they take them (and it is RARE that they takes kids to begin with) but when they do they do it to SEND A MESSAGE, if this was drug related you and everyone else would know about it by now for sure, the cartels are professionals, they work for a billion dollar industry and they dont do things half-assed, if this were them they would have made it known from day one.

Yes we are in Tucson and close to the border but people make way too much about drug cartel violence here, yes it happens but this isnt El Paso folks.

Hundreds of kidnappings for ransom occur in Arizona every year. However, these mostly have to do with drugs and/or illegal aliens. And I don't think stealth is a priority. I think if a cartel had something to do with this they wouldn't have done it in this way.

This is correct, bon ami.
 
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