IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 - #17

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threepisces said:
The Lake Monroe scenario is possible, but it just seems unlikely to me. First of all, I doubt these college students had a boat to use. So they would have to have dropped the body into the water from a road-accesible spot. There are a few spots, but it would take a great degree of effort with little assurance that the body would actually be deep enough/well hidden. Plus, this is occuring around 5am, most likely. There could be fishermen out at that point etc. It seems like too much of a risk and too far of a drive to be worth it.

Lake Griffey seems much more believable to me. You'd still have issues of not having a boat etc, but it is much more convenient from the downtown area, there are several points of unofficial access, and no one really fishes on it/it would be unlikely that you'd see anyone out there that early.
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Maybe. Although Griffey is only about 100 acres and about 10 feet deep. I thought I read they did a dive in Griffey. Seems like with a smaller sized lake like that it would be hard to miss a body.
 
threepisces said:
Yeah, I don't think she is likely to be in Griffey - it seems like she would have been found already if so. But my comment was about how the person(s) responsible would be thinking. If this is premeditated and planned, then who knows what is possible. But if this is an OD coverup or a crime of passion, then it seems like Lake Monroe is too risky at 5am and too far from the scene to be worth it. The lake depths wouldn't be that important if you take away the ability to take a boat on the lake.
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How do you know it would have been 5 AM?
 
VeryVeritas said:
Why Lake Monroe? Is it that familiar? Stated above ZO/AB were not in the photos of the AEBi frat party on the Lake. If they were the undertakers, what links them to that location?
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Yes, at least it was very familiar to me when I was there. Everyone in Bloomington knows of Lake Monroe even if they haven't been there. I'm not saying ZO/AB were involved, either. I haven't formed an opinion on what persons were involved. I'm just saying the first place that I think most people would think of is Lake Monroe.
 
dmband445 said:
How do you know it would have been 5 AM?
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Well I don't know anything for sure, but the DR call is at 4:15, JR sees her leave at 4:30. Whether we can believe JR or not, whatever is happening seems to be going down in the 4 o'clock hour. By the time a plan was hashed and the you drove the 15-20 minutes to the lake, it'd probably be about 5am.
 
Tr. said:
Right. That posting is in reference to the altercation at Small Wood...sorry.

In a nutshell, I'm theorizing that ZO and AB directed (if you will) the movements of the victims by starting an altercation.

I'm beginning to think that the timing, location, and intensity of the altercation were carefully coordinated as to steer the victim to another location and/or possibly with the original intent of separating LS from CR.

Whether or not the latter, the end result was just that.
That being said...what other event may they have coordinated?
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The event involving Lauren; that being what started on camera around 3AM which LE has not released to the public and ultimately led to her being missing.

I believe these 2 went to CR's apt looking for Lauren. I'm not certain there wasn't a third or even fourth person involved. I believe that these 2 know what happened to Lauren, if not taking part in what happened and the subsequent hiding of Lauren. I don't believe that these 2 had any business being at this apartment building other than to find CR and Lauren. I think they may have been there "waiting" for CR and Lauren's arrival. I think that when CR and Lauren did arrive, something horrible happened. I believe they are connected to Lauren's boyfriend JW and acted as a result of Lauren hanging with CR that night, if not by direction of JW. I believe this trio, AB/ZO/JW know where Lauren is. I also believe that AA may be involved in this scenario to, having been in the lot at almost precisely the same time CR and Lauren would have arrived. I believe that AA didn't have any business being in that area other than to confront Lauren and/or CR.

The first event being the brawl with CR over Lauren and possibly drugs (or drugs that he may have provided to Lauren). The second event being what has happened to Lauren in the gravel lot at about 3AM and after and why these kids, who didn't live in these apartments, would have any reason to be there.

I am not discounting that there were several "others" at that location as well. As to their involvement, I'm sure there is something there. I am not sure that they know where Lauren is. I believe this was taken care of by someone else, who had an unfortunate encounter with a witness while he had a girl slung over his shoulder. Where he went from there we don't know. If we did, we might be able to find Lauren.
 
Berk13 said:
Gabby, I was also completely shocked when this person told me they were dealing heroine. I had to ask them to repeat it several times because coke is one thing, but heroine is hard core and so very addictive like you said. For these guys to still be functioning in school and in life, I tend to also believe they probably weren't actually using it themselves.
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(snipped) If they were dealing heroin, they likely had connections to some extremely rough people. I just don't feel that they'd have much clientele on IU's campus b/c I don't think those "customers" last very long as students. I've heard someone say that heroin is NOT a drug that you just do once.

I think this bit of info may be HUGE. I wonder if they entered some type of program which allowed them to get their records expunged, because researchers here have not turned up this record. If so, this makes me wonder about them possibly having become informants. I also live in a college town. I think I posted several threads ago about how kids here are given the choice to go to jail/prison with felony records, or to serve as an informant and enter programs where records can be expunged. In the beginning, they start turning in the people they barely know, but eventually have to start turning in acquaintances, then friends. Many get into some bad situations as a result. This makes me wonder if CR wasn't also involved (during the same time, or perhaps later). If ZO is a dealer, as it's been rumored, a situation like this could easily explain the fight. It could also very much explain why so many are too scared to talk.
 
Pedrosmom said:
LS and CR were most likely (but not necessarily) headed for her apartment.
They may have also been headed to DR's apartment especially if HT were there. (Bold is mine)

It has been well established that LS and CR were headed to CR's apt.
What do you know about DR and HT? I believe HT stayed in that night and DR didn't enter the case until he was on the receiving end of JR's phone call, which, we don't know if it was answered or not. Where do you see DR in all of this? Just wondering. Another set of eyes is always good.

I do believe ZO and AB were out to get someone. Whether it was CR, they already did the job back at Smallwood. I'm thinking they were out looking for Lauren.

Lauren's boyfriend was JW, not ZO or AB.
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LS and CR went to Smallwood from Kilroy's. The likely scenario is they were goint to LS's apartment, but it's possible they were at Smallwood to visit DR.

DR accompanied LS to JR's apartment earlier in the night, hours before the 4:15 phone call.
 
Gabby66 said:
I think this bit of info may be HUGE.
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With all due respect to Berk, this "bit of info" is a rumor, and I'm going to caution everyone to steer away from this topic immediately. Remember, these individuals have not been named as POI's. When I said we could include them in the discussion, I warned everyone to use discretion and common sense, but it's getting out of hand. Don't be surprised if posts start disappearing.
 
docwho3 said:
For those foul play theorists:
My wife had Leukemia and was successfully treated a few years ago
and afterwards she had to undergo a bonemarrow biopsy every
so often. They used a drug to help her through the pain of the
procedure (snipped for space) This is similar to some 'date rape' drugs used.


If a crime is ever proven I would be wondering about the possible
involvement of something similar.
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REALLY sorry to read about your wife. Hope she's doing better now. I'm familiar with this drug and in fact, I believe I've had this for a procedure myself. It not only can make you forget the procedure, but even a period of time before the procedure took place. I can't recall the actual name, and while there may be several generic forms, I do recall that mine began with an M. That's all I remember, because of course, it wiped my memory! I too have thought of the possibility of a date rape drug haven been used.

Another drug which I do not believe we've discussed, which is very prevalent on college campuses, is Ecstasy.
 
Carmen101 said:
I seem to remember an early MSM report that LE had requested video from all local businesses along LS’s path and that they had all cooperated. I believe LE has been reviewing the video from the beginning of this case.
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I remember this too, yet as I recall, there was a more recent article (I believe it was posed here) stating that LE is requesting more businesses to provide videos. Since this was recent, it struck me as being very late in the game, especially when many businesses just tape over and over the same tape, meaning that possible evidence would be LONG gone by now. I'm seriously shocked that these tapes weren't obtained the day or two after she was reported missing. If they can get a warrant for the one at Smallwood, surely they could get one from any other business along her route.
 
Gabby66 said:
I remember this too, yet as I recall, there was a more recent article (I believe it was posed here) stating that LE is requesting more businesses to provide videos. Since this was recent, it struck me as being very late in the game, especially when many businesses just tape over and over the same tape, meaning that possible evidence would be LONG gone by now. I'm seriously shocked that these tapes weren't obtained the day or two after she was reported missing. If they can get a warrant for the one at Smallwood, surely they could get one from any other business along her route.
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June 10, 2011
Police and members of Lauren Spierer’s family have requested that business owners in the immediate area of the missing Indiana University student’s last known whereabouts give video surveillance to police. “We may have businesses that have video that we don’t know about yet,” Parker said.
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http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/stories/2011/06/10/news.720766.sto
 
bessie said:
With all due respect to Berk, this "bit of info" is a rumor, and I'm going to caution everyone to steer away from this topic immediately. Remember, these individuals have not been named as POI's. When I said we could include them in the discussion, I warned everyone to use discretion and common sense, but it's getting out of hand. Don't be surprised if posts start disappearing.
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I respect this, but one thing to consider....(referring back to my earlier post about informants), IF (hypothetically) there are POIs in a case who might happen to be Drug Informants for the Police, this would give LE a big reason to not name them as POIs in said case. I'm not saying that this is true in LS's case, because we simply do not know, but just throwing it out there as a possibility. It may not be the case regarding these particular boys, of whom we've been discussing (as we simply do not know who the other POIs are) but it could be a valid reason why the "real" POIs have remained unnamed, whoever they are. I do sense some drug connection and I believe that there's a reason why not all POIs have been named. This could be it.
 
Since we are talking about dump sites I still haven't heard a refutation of how someone didn't get lucky with a dumpster dump undetected before landfill drop off.
 
Carmen101 said:
JR apparently lives in Unit #297 which is located at the western edge of the 5 North Building.

Each unit is a 3-story townhouse, except JR’s, which has a 4th floor. Each unit has its own entrance on the north side of the building. JR’s unit has a Juliet balcony on the second floor, outside the entertainment room.
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I'll bet from up there you can see if the coast is clear in the gravel lot, and perhaps a lot more...
 
Local volunteer gives insight about Search for Lauren
http://hsji.org/student-work/local-volunteer-gives-insight-about-search-for-lauren/

Officials and police forces have been pushing themselves to the limit with extra hours and daily county wide searches. However, there is only so much the city’s law enforcement can do.
“I’ve thought often that the search isn’t broad enough,” Biggs said. “We’ve gone over and over Bloomington and Monroe County with a fine–toothed comb. However, there are surrounding counties, lakes, woods, privately owned quarries, construction sites, none of which we can go into because they’re privately owned. Those are the places I feel need to be checked out better.”
 
Carmen101 said:
http://tonygatto.com/
Man Who Confronted Lauren Spierer’s Friend at Smallwood Identified as [ZO]
Posted on July 4th, 2011 13:54 by Tony Gatto

“Also connected to friends of Lauren is one of [ZO’s] roommates, [AB], a buddy of [ZO] from the Indianapolis area. [AB] is seen in a video with [JR].”

I have changed the quote above removing names and replacing them with initials in brackets.

AB has apparently quit Facebook.
His profile that has now disappeared:
Flat *advertiser censored* broke since 1991. Don’t do ****, but talk ****
AB did not list himself as an IU student.
How is AB living in Bloomington with no visible means of support?
Is ZO paying AB’s expenses?
ZO is photographed a lot with his shirt pulled up showing his abs.

If, as been speculated, ZO, DR, and JR are the dealers, maybe they do all know each other.
Maybe LS was texting DR or ZO to get something.
Perhaps LS went to the 5th floor of Smallwood to get something and the plan was to return to the bar to drink and take something or to go to her apt.
Running into ZO and his crew skewed that plan, so maybe they rushed out of Smallwood to go to CR’s place and get away from ZO.
Maybe the “activity in the alley” was that ZO and his crew caught up with them and that’s when CR got punched or LS yelled at ZO and company for punching CR at Smallwood.
This is where it gets tough. CR and LS go to his apt. and MB has said that LS stated she wanted to party more.
Why wasn’t she upset by the fight?
Maybe when she got to JR’s apt., AB was there. Maybe she stays until JR passes out and feels unsafe with AB, so she leaves and goes to College to walk home.
Perhaps AB goes through the alley and between the buildings on 10th Street and intercepts LS there.
That would fit with the bar manager’s statement.
ZO and AB’s apt. is right there.
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you bring up some interesting ideas and facts. It would be interesting to know if AB was actually a student or just hanging around the campus.

I was unaware that AB is seen in a video with JR. What video was that(location?)

It's my understanding that the Smallwood video recorded CR getting punched. I could definitely see them pursuing CR and heading him off at the pass, so to speak... and confronting them on the other side of the Alley.
I'm sure they know that area as well as anyone. This is one reason I keep trying to find out what the fight was about. Why wont CR or anyone else say what that fight was about? I also do not understand why Smallwood seemed to defend ZO's crew and point the finger at CR for the altercation. I kept wondering if ZO's crew also included a Smallwood security or staff or resident with some influence. So again, if anyone can find out what that fight was about, it might lead to something else.

If these guys ZO/AB are a lot more familiar with Indy finding a body becomes a whole other world.

Finally, if the scene went down as you have described, what is missing is what happens after AB catches up with her and is seen by the 3:38 witness.
 
I have seen it mentioned that some of the POI may be involved in using/selling heroin?!? If that is true, you could include a laundry list of other motives that would not be generally considered. Such as unsavory people coming and going at any hour of the day/night trying to get a fix or a POI getting in over their head with another group of people and an innocent person could become collateral damage. There are many stories out there about a heroin user killing members of their own family to get money for a fix.
I tend to think heroin use is not true with any of these POI, but if it is that completely changes how I would view this group of POI as a whole AND individually, as in any one of them could become capable of all kinds of unspeakable acts. You cannot hide being a heroin user for very long, so if even one of these people was a user, I think it would be safe to say other friends of theirs would be aware of this.
 
Carmen101 said:
I think JR is being truthful about being the last to see LS because who wants to be the last person to see a now missing person?

MB, CR's attorney, and HT have all stated that JR saw her last.

Maybe all JR knows is that LS left his apt. He might not know when or her direction or what happened next.
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1) CR's attorney was not there, he gets his info from who? CR has amnesia.
2) HT was not there, she supposedly is going on what JR told her
3) MB could be covering for CR and recalling the first time LS was at the apt earlier in the evening when explaining her departure. Several reasons why he would do so have been discussed.
4) JR may be covering for others as well because if the cause of what happened to her leads back to him(drugs for example) there is a different sort of culpability than just "seeing" her leave. I think at this point it would be good for him to reveal if ZO and/or AB were in his place that night at all.

Yet, you may be correct... that JR, from his tower watched her round that corner... and then AB may have caught up with her after that. A lot hinges on him being truthful or not.
 
There have been many rumors about this case - People claim to know about the lifestyle of these kids and claim to know who was where, when, and maybe even why. However, the one thing that I've yet to read anywhere, is a post from anyone claiming to know what the fight was about. People have "speculated" that it could be coming from JW, yet I've read that the boys who are rumored to be the puncher(s) are not FB friends with him.

To me, the fact that there really are no sensible rumors out there about the fight is VERY telling. Typically, I'd think the boys would tell someone, especially since their names are out there as supposedly having been the ones to throw a punch. But it doesn't appear that anyone has talked about this fight. If BOTH sides (CR and possibly ZO) are keeping quiet, then it tells me that the issue was something really big, as opposed to something more simple like, "I was jealous"
 
Carmen101 said:
JR apparently lives in Unit #297 which is located at the western edge of the 5 North Building.

Each unit is a 3-story townhouse, except JR’s, which has a 4th floor. Each unit has its own entrance on the north side of the building. JR’s unit has a Juliet balcony on the second floor, outside the entertainment room.
Click to expand...

Could a fall from that balcony be ruled out?
 
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