AZ - Gabriel Johnson, 8 months, 26 Dec 2009 - last seen in Texas - #4

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Even though this story is gaining national attention, a surprisingly large number of people have not heard of Gabriel. I personally dont watch much news and if I didnt know Logan I might not have heard of it. Granted I am not in Az or Tx, but its been a long time, he could really be anywhere at all.
I think of the wasted days between when he was abducted and when the story did make it to the cable news (Nancy Grace). The word should get out that if someone does have him, hand him over now and avoid more serious charges.
 
thank you for all of the welcomes! :)
<snip>

I dont know who "friended" who on FB. I do know that they were friends, and then a day or 2 later they werent, and then they were again....I dont know who deleted who or who re-added who....my guess would be she added him because she was posting stuff on his wall, and to my knowledge he didnt write back anything to her. I dont know if it was her purpose to make him look bad to his friends or not, but she was doing that. She wrote things like Logan hadnt even bought one pack of diapers for Gabe (which is untrue, they shared an apartment and he worked so he was obviously supporting Gabriel AND Elizabeth).

Logan and I were friends on myspace and sometime after she got pregnant, I was no longer on his friends. I thought that was odd, and then he sent a friend request again, so I figured myspace just messed up or something. Then it was his birthday so I sent him a message and somebody read it (I cant say if it was him or not, I got no reply from it) and then I was deleted from his friends again. My guess is that it was her deleting me (Logan and I dated for a couple years so I am thinking she didnt like the fact that we were still friends).

<snip>

Thank you for further info.... it heartbreaking to me that Tammi was on his facebook making him look bad in front of his friends no matter what, but to claim something that wasn't true. It makes me wonder if EJ and Tammi were working on him and making a case against him or something. It reminds me of the day EJ sent him the message she has killed Gabriel and then Tammi advises him to sign over custody just shortly after. This all makes me want to cry. One has to ask why? But then again, you cannot make total sense out of some people's behavior. I feel bad if Logan had to suffer additionally because of Tammi as it seems he went through hell with EJ. I hope Gabriel gets back to Logan and the healing can begin soon.
 
Well, yeah, like the federal witness protection program, but not to steal a baby from another parent. [I don't think -- but I admit I am not well-versed in this stuff.]

I think there is help that exists (whatever you want to call it, a network, underground, etc.) for people who are in real danger of being hurt by someone - mainly someone who has a very long track record of criminal behavior and physical abuse of others or who has made definite threats. No, it is NOT to steal a baby from another parent - I just think sometimes the threatening person is the other parent.

Maybe I wasn't being clear - I don't think any legitimate network was at work in Gabriel case.
 
Even though this story is gaining national attention, a surprisingly large number of people have not heard of Gabriel. I personally dont watch much news and if I didnt know Logan I might not have heard of it. Granted I am not in Az or Tx, but its been a long time, he could really be anywhere at all.

Sadly I saw this quote on a message board (not here) right after his poster went out. About his case, no less.

I’ve never heard of a noncustodial mother who kidnaps her child harming the child.
 
I think you have nailed her personality, but I did not say the adoption of the grandchild was totally normal and ethical. I just have to assume it was since the only one disputing that had his parental rights revoked. It was no trick, he lost them and he admits it was not willingly. So a judge clearly made that decision. That is though a good question about why she never followed up on the surrogacy. I know it is very expensive though, and that does not include all the insemination and medical care. Typically some but very little of that is covered by the adoptive mothers insurance. They were self employed though, so they were probably looking at all of the costs up front. In that case adoption would be cheaper. There is also the question of what the laws are in AZ about surrogacy. Is it legal there? Some states do not legally recognize surrogacy agreements. All I can say is that I have a friend who is infertile, and you just dont know how desperate these people can be. They seek out all possible avenues online, so postings really are just postings. Most are very honest, loving and ethical but some lose sight of that the more the doors close on them.

I'm not sure he lost custody legitimately ... that's not what he is claiming. I think he is claiming they did it while he was incarcerated (and someone here found out that he was in jail for a while for some car insurance thing, not sure if there is more) and, possibly (I'll have to check), it was done in another state.


Bratlings ... also Tammi, that we know of, has already asked many of the possible surrogates online if they have insurance - they obviously do not want to pay for the medical care. Many women online say they DO have insurance. Tammi was also looking for a military wife in California (medical care and more covered, plus easier surrogate laws, plus it's out of state). And on and on... there were possibilities.


Frankly, I think it stinks that the Smith's want insurance to pay for the medical costs - insurance that they don't pay for on their own. They even expressed on TV that they were ok with not checking out the legalities of Logan being the father because they knew Gabriel had had all his shots (or something like that). They never referred to Gabriel by his name - why is that?
 
Sadly I saw this quote on a message board (not here) right after his poster went out. About his case, no less.

She was the custodial parent at the time she took him. That changed on Dec. 29th I believe but by that time she was already in Miami without the baby. In fact she got on that bus on the 27th so whatever happened to him was already done before he even got to court that morning.
 
I'm not sure he lost custody legitimately ... that's not what he is claiming. I think he is claiming they did it while he was incarcerated (and someone found he was in jail for a while for some car insurance thing, not sure if there is more) and, possibly (I'll have to check), it was done in another state.

If he didn't sign the papers as he admits he did not, then a judge made the decision. Many of parents in prison lose their rights simply because they are there. He may think its unfair, but it is perfectly legal.
 
I just wonder if that time share that's owned by JS and TPS in Mexico has been searched...maybe Gabe was handed off to someone in San Antionio and then taken to hide out in the time share...maybe that's the Mexico connection. Just thinking out loud...:waitasec:

IIRC, there was mention that TPS had a lot of pictures posted on her MS from a vacation in Mexico. I never got a chance to see those pictures, so I can't confirm, but apparently they were deleted along with pictures of Gabriel. With the news of EJ's apparent cell phone pings in Victoria, TX heading to the Mexican border, I am curious if there was something or someplace that could be identified as a possible location of where Gabriel could be (if he was handed off at the border). If they have a regular place they go to in Mexico, it could be a good place to look.
 
It appears to me that as of Dec 26 & 27, she thought she could have him. She was trying to get Logan to sign the papers, trying to get Eliz to come to her with Gabriel, having people call Eliz to tell her to come back to Tammi and to go to the custody hearing on Dec 28.

Her first interview, after Eliz was arrested, sounds to me like she thought she could have Gabriel.

That's how it looks to me. When do you believe she came to believe she couldn't have Gabriel? What, to you, made her think she couldn't have him?

I'm not A Closer Look - but I think J&T Smith got the message when Tempe LE came out and said that Logan has custody and the baby BELONGS with Logan. It was after this public announcement that TPS finally started talking like she understood there was no way in Hades she was going to get that baby. JMO of course.

Salem
 
I hope I am doing this right, I am a very long time lurker, well since little Caylee Went missing. I just had to sign up for Gabriel.
I am in San Antonio, and wanted too point out a few things that may or may not make any difference to all your great work. If it's no help, I will go back to lurkdom, lol.
Anyway, There are actually 2 Victoria Texas'. One by S.A. and one by Dallas Ft.worth area. do you know which? The bus could have made a stop somewhere that caused them to go through Victoria by Dallas on her way too Fl.

which leads me to the Bus station. We have a few of these here. I am waiting until 9 cen time to call a friend who's Significant other is here in the states, incorrectly, I will say, to find out more. But if I am correct, these buslines, are used by alot of "illegal aliens". The Coyotes(people that get them across the border) will get them close as possible, and it's up to them from there. These buslines feel more safe I would think. so not many witness' will come from there.

Also, there was mention of a church the POI went to, before the one they currently attend. I looked around, and they have a church in MISSION TX. Right on the border. Coyotes work both ways, comeing and going from/to Mex. Victoria by S.A. is a little out of the way. but not too much. not if you are meeting w/ someone, and trying to throw people off the correct trail.

I hope this made sense, and if I am way off base here, please let me know. these things have been bugging me. and sadly, the 2 min Baby Gabe is getting on the news here, is NOT enough!
 
I just spent a lot of time catching up (only been gone not even 24 hours!). I was trying to think of what I wanted to respond to or quote in the new thread when I realized the most important thing to bring over would be this:

WHERE IS GABRIEL?!
WHERE IS HE?!
BRING HIM HOME TO HIS DADDY NOW!!

and then I just had to post these:

gabriel johnson closeup.jpg

gabriel johnson closeup2.jpg

gabrial sleeping.jpg

gabrial in highchair smiling.jpg

and now I'm angry again so I'm posting this:

WHERE IS HE ELIZABETH?
WHERE IS HE TAMMI?
WHERE IS HE JACK?

DON'T BE SO ARROGANT THAT YOU DON'T THINK YOU WON'T SPEND THE REST OF YOUR PITIFUL LIVES ROTTING IN PRISON AND ROTTING IN HELL AFTER DEATH. GOD DOES NOT LIKE LIARS.

phew, sorry kids ... back to your regular programming :angel:
 
I hope I am doing this right, I am a very long time lurker, well since little Caylee Went missing. I just had to sign up for Gabriel.
I am in San Antonio, and wanted too point out a few things that may or may not make any difference to all your great work. If it's no help, I will go back to lurkdom, lol.
Anyway, There are actually 2 Victoria Texas'. One by S.A. and one by Dallas Ft.worth area. do you know which? The bus could have made a stop somewhere that caused them to go through Victoria by Dallas on her way too Fl.

which leads me to the Bus station. We have a few of these here. I am waiting until 9 cen time to call a friend who's Significant other is here in the states, incorrectly, I will say, to find out more. But if I am correct, these buslines, are used by alot of "illegal aliens". The Coyotes(people that get them across the border) will get them close as possible, and it's up to them from there. These buslines feel more safe I would think. so not many witness' will come from there.

Also, there was mention of a church the POI went to, before the one they currently attend. I looked around, and they have a church in MISSION TX. Right on the border. Coyotes work both ways, comeing and going from/to Mex. Victoria by S.A. is a little out of the way. but not too much. not if you are meeting w/ someone, and trying to throw people off the correct trail.

I hope this made sense, and if I am way off base here, please let me know. these things have been bugging me. and sadly, the 2 min Baby Gabe is getting on the news here, is NOT enough!

It's the Victoria, Texas near SA
 
I dont know, I think Elizabeth was visiting a friend in Boston but it was about 8 months ago from what i understand so does it really matter?

perhaps it does, since that's about when GABRIEL was conceived
 
perhaps it does, since that's about when GABRIEL was conceived

I am not following what you are inferring at all. I suspect you dont really mean when he was conceived because that would have been 17 months ago. Please explain.
 
I hope I am doing this right, I am a very long time lurker, well since little Caylee Went missing. I just had to sign up for Gabriel.
I am in San Antonio, and wanted too point out a few things that may or may not make any difference to all your great work. If it's no help, I will go back to lurkdom, lol.
Anyway, There are actually 2 Victoria Texas'. One by S.A. and one by Dallas Ft.worth area. do you know which? The bus could have made a stop somewhere that caused them to go through Victoria by Dallas on her way too Fl.

which leads me to the Bus station. We have a few of these here. I am waiting until 9 cen time to call a friend who's Significant other is here in the states, incorrectly, I will say, to find out more. But if I am correct, these buslines, are used by alot of "illegal aliens". The Coyotes(people that get them across the border) will get them close as possible, and it's up to them from there. These buslines feel more safe I would think. so not many witness' will come from there.

Also, there was mention of a church the POI went to, before the one they currently attend. I looked around, and they have a church in MISSION TX. Right on the border. Coyotes work both ways, comeing and going from/to Mex. Victoria by S.A. is a little out of the way. but not too much. not if you are meeting w/ someone, and trying to throw people off the correct trail.

I hope this made sense, and if I am way off base here, please let me know. these things have been bugging me. and sadly, the 2 min Baby Gabe is getting on the news here, is NOT enough!

Ives, welcome to WS and thanks for your post. But I have to admit that it takes me back to something that I wondered last night...

If the original plan was to get the baby into Mexico, I am puzzled as to why Elizabeth had to drive to TX for the transfer? She could have left Tempe and driven down to Nogales in about 2-3 hours, or even arranged to transfer the baby in Tucson. I doubt anyone has the answer, but I just have to say that the whole idea of driving to TX to make an international transfer has me scratching my head.
 
bumped by me

I think no one is really sure about all those details. It appears as if it could be fact Elizabeth was flying back from Boston to Arizona. The claim is that Tammi (and Jack) met her during a long layover in Indianapolis. We're not sure why they would have been in the Indianapolis airport - or maybe even if that is where they met at all

I could be wrong about some of this so anyone else correct it!
 
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