WARNING:GRAPHIC PHOTOS Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox appeals conviction #8

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Let's not get snarky with each other, folks.

Salem
 
Here is what the Chicago Tribune wrote about Louise Robbins:

By the time Robbins died in 1987, appeals courts had overturned many of the cases in which she had testified. And the American Academy of Forensic Sciences, in a rare rebuke of one of its members, concluded her courtroom work was not grounded in science

What kind of grid did Hendry use?
 
Yes there is alot more on this

First off Rinaldi used the grid of Robbins in which I do believe every case she ever worked on has been reviewed and her testimony tossed. She was also sanctioned

Rinaldi measured the big toe and 2nd toe together on the bathmat and came up with a measurement of 30mm when in fact the correct measurement of the big toe is 24.8. RS is totally incapable of stepping on his 2nd toe.

Torre also pointed out that the luminol footprints that investigators say are of Knox's bare feet cannot be because Knox's second toe is longer than her big toe, and that characteristic is not apparent in the lumino-enhanced prints. He also pointed out that the bare footprints of the other two women who lived in the house were not taken for comparison, nor were those of the victim


http://abcnews.go.com/International/Story?id=8014386&page=2

On the one hand, we have director of print identity in the Rome forensic police division testifying about the footprints at the crime scene:

"Bloody and luminol-enhanced footprints left in the villa where Meredith Kercher was murdered are those of Raffaele Sollecito, Amanda Knox and Rudy Guede, the director of print identity in the Rome forensic police division testified Saturday.

...

But the next witness, another print expert, again confirmed Rinaldi's testimony, that the print, which only shows the top half of the foot, matches the precise characteristics of Sollecito's foot."

http://www.seattlepi.com/local/406059_knox09.html

What are the credentials of those that disagree with those conclusions and on what are they basing those opinions (evidence, or photos from the internet)?
 
I've enlarged the photo that Hendry used. This is the side of the wardrobe. Hendry adds a couple of black arrows which I suppose indicate the blood pattern according to him. I have added blue arrows which I suppose might be the pattern direction (I'm no expert). From the blood drops, I'm guessing that the first point of contact is the most defined portion, and the feathered portion is what came later. I may have it backwards, and all the arrows should be pointing in exactly the opposite direction from how I've drawn them. I do not see a correlation between the arrows that Hendry added and the blood drops. Apologies if this image appears too large on some computer screens, but I wanted to enlarge it enough so that we could see the drops. From this link: http://www.salem-news.com/articles/december042010/amanda-know.php
 

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This photo shows that there is plenty of room for three people to attack one person in this bedroom.

No one has ever claimed otherwise, otto.

The argument is that three people couldn't kill one person in that small space without all three leaving traces of themselves, predominantly in blood.
 
No one has ever claimed otherwise, otto.

The argument is that three people couldn't kill one person in that small space without all three leaving traces of themselves, predominantly in blood.

Warning: Graphic Description based on Hendry's opinion

I had a look at Hendry's opinion. What first jumps off the page is that Hendry does not appear to have reviewed the injuries to Meredith. He seems to believe that there were minimal injuries and that the fatal injury was delivered fairly early in the struggle. He does not explain the other 40 injuries. This is according to Hendry:

"It is obvious that this attack was the work of one enraged man, who acted entirely alone," says Hendry. He explains that in such a tiny space, the presence of multiple attackers would have been easy to detect, because they could not have avoided stepping in blood. They would also have blocked some of the blood spatter that ended up on the floor and on the door of the wardrobe closet."

He seems to believe that all three convicted murderers would have stepped in the blood, but I don't understand his logic. It is clear that the only real blood pooling is in the small corner of the room (no where near the door). We also know that Meredith bled to death (as Amanda so aptly stated immediately after the murder was discovered). There is no logical reason to conclude that each of the convicted murders went into the corner of the room and stepped in that blood pooling at the moment that Meredith began bleeding to death. It's possible that Rudy got blood on his shoes because he was standing in front of Meredith during the fatal injury, or alternatively that happened when he brought towels. Amanda and Raffaele could have been standing to the side or behind Meredith when she was stabbed with the 12 inch knife, and they would not have been in the direct line of blood spatter, or blood pooling.

The bloody footprints in the cottage belong to Rudy's shoes, and Amanda and Raffaele's bare footprints (or two other people's bare footprints). After the murder, all three ran from the cottage. Rudy changed and went dancing, the lovebirds disposed of the phones and then returned to clean up. Chances are they stripped down to clean up (bare foot prints), pulled Meredith away from the blood pooling, covered her with a duvet, and used Amanda's lamp to better see what needed to be cleaned up.

Personally, I see no reason for the accident reconstructionist to assume that all three murderers stepped in the blood pooling in the corner of the room while wearing their shoes and at the moment that the murder occurred.

From this link: http://www.salem-news.com/articles/december042010/amanda-know.php
 

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Nova, I'm looking at this supposed "expert" opinion of Hendry, and I don't understand his conclusions regarding blood spatter direction. His arrows seem to have nothing to do with the size, shape and apparent direction of the blood drops. I'm looking at the large pool of blood, and wondering why he expected all three murderers to go to the corner of the room and stand in the blood (with their shoes on) as Meredith bled to death. I'm reading his opinion, and wondering why he doesn't address the two knives that he thinks Rudy alone used. I'm wondering why he ignores the 40 injuries in his reconstruction. He doesn't seem to know what to do with the print on the bath mat, so he adds another random thought claiming that Rudy removed a shoe to wash blood from the shoe ... but somehow the bare foot also had blood on it. I don't see anything logical in Hendry's opinion. It is obvious that he ignores many factual points in order to argue that Rudy acted alone. He claims to be an expert on broken windows, but doesn't even begin to address the details of where the glass was found.
 
Nova, I'm looking at this supposed "expert" opinion of Hendry, and I don't understand his conclusions regarding blood spatter direction. His arrows seem to have nothing to do with the size, shape and apparent direction of the blood drops. I'm looking at the large pool of blood, and wondering why he expected all three murderers to go to the corner of the room and stand in the blood (with their shoes on) as Meredith bled to death. I'm reading his opinion, and wondering why he doesn't address the two knives that he thinks Rudy alone used. I'm wondering why he ignores the 40 injuries in his reconstruction. He doesn't seem to know what to do with the print on the bath mat, so he adds another random thought claiming that Rudy removed a shoe to wash blood from the shoe ... but somehow the bare foot also had blood on it. I don't see anything logical in Hendry's opinion. It is obvious that he ignores many factual points in order to argue that Rudy acted alone. He claims to be an expert on broken windows, but doesn't even begin to address the details of where the glass was found.

I can only speculate, but Hendry may not address the broken windows because we don't seem to have many photos of the resulting disarray and broken glass. Perhaps they exist, but I haven't seen them, nor have I heard people refer to much in the way of photographic evidence.

I don't know that Hendry "ignores" the 40 injuries in his reconstruction so much as he assumes they resulted from what he describes as a life-and-death struggle between MK and her (lone) assailant.

I don't know that Hendry has every detail right, but one thing that gives his account credibility (to me, at least) is that he portrays MK's final minutes as a very violent affair. By contrast, the prosecution wants me to believe there were four people and two knifes in that room and MK was wounded 40 times, yet the whole event was as stately as a gavotte!

ETA: is there a handy list of MK's injuries available on line? Obviously it makes a difference whether most were knife cuts or most were bruises.
 
Thanks to another poster who PM'd me a mainstream discussion of MK's injuries, but prefers not to post it here out of respect for the victim.

The article in question is not a blog or a tabloid, and is neither pro-prosecution nor pro-defense.

It seems that that vast majority of injuries MJ suffered consist of bruises, cuts and abrasions one would expect to find after a violent struggle. Since Hendry details just such a struggle, he may feel he has accounted for those injuries.

Instead, Hendry deals with the fatal stab wounds and shows how those wounds are consistent with a lone assailant cutting MK from behind.
 
I can only speculate, but Hendry may not address the broken windows because we don't seem to have many photos of the resulting disarray and broken glass. Perhaps they exist, but I haven't seen them, nor have I heard people refer to much in the way of photographic evidence.

I don't know that Hendry "ignores" the 40 injuries in his reconstruction so much as he assumes they resulted from what he describes as a life-and-death struggle between MK and her (lone) assailant.

I don't know that Hendry has every detail right, but one thing that gives his account credibility (to me, at least) is that he portrays MK's final minutes as a very violent affair. By contrast, the prosecution wants me to believe there were four people and two knifes in that room and MK was wounded 40 times, yet the whole event was as stately as a gavotte!

ETA: is there a handy list of MK's injuries available on line? Obviously it makes a difference whether most were knife cuts or most were bruises.

The various injuries (cuts, bruises, stabbing, minor defensive injuries) are discussed throughout the sentencing summary (the 427 pg report). There's a long description in the report detailing why more than one person was involved ... relates to the fact that there were very small cuts to Meredith's hands (not what you would expect from someone trying to prevent themselves from being stabbed to death), and repeated cuts around the neck suggesting that Meredith was cut, and then did absolutely nothing to prevent being cut again in the same area. If one person attacked her, she appears to have done very little to protect herself, which was completely out of character for her.
 
Thanks to another poster who PM'd me a mainstream discussion of MK's injuries, but prefers not to post it here out of respect for the victim.

The article in question is not a blog or a tabloid, and is neither pro-prosecution nor pro-defense.

It seems that that vast majority of injuries MJ suffered consist of bruises, cuts and abrasions one would expect to find after a violent struggle. Since Hendry details just such a struggle, he may feel he has accounted for those injuries.

Instead, Hendry deals with the fatal stab wounds and shows how those wounds are consistent with a lone assailant cutting MK from behind.

What do you make of the fact that stab wounds appear to be from the left, then the right? Was Rudy ambidextrous with knives?
 
What do you make of the fact that stab wounds appear to be from the left, then the right? Was Rudy ambidextrous with knives?

I know its hard and not really fair for me to be discussing a source I'm not at liberty to post. But the expert quoted there (Italian) thought the evidence showed that MK was held on one side while the stabbing was done with the opposite hand.
 
The various injuries (cuts, bruises, stabbing, minor defensive injuries) are discussed throughout the sentencing summary (the 427 pg report). There's a long description in the report detailing why more than one person was involved ... relates to the fact that there were very small cuts to Meredith's hands (not what you would expect from someone trying to prevent themselves from being stabbed to death), and repeated cuts around the neck suggesting that Meredith was cut, and then did absolutely nothing to prevent being cut again in the same area. If one person attacked her, she appears to have done very little to protect herself, which was completely out of character for her.

The thing is, otto, from very early on in the case, ILE starts with Mignini's theory and then picks and chooses the evidence that will support that theory.

Since the theory is patent nonsense, I don't have any respect for the conclusions invented to support it.

Sorry, but that's how I see this case.
 
I know its hard and not really fair for me to be discussing a source I'm not at liberty to post. But the expert quoted there (Italian) thought the evidence showed that MK was held on one side while the stabbing was done with the opposite hand.

It seems to me that anyone directing the discussion to Hendry (for the last couple of weeks) is also directing the discussion towards the details of the murder. What "expert" are you refering to? The trial summary report clearly states that injuries are made from the left and from the right. Did someone hold Meredith on one side, stab her, then turn her around stab her again, turn her around, cut again ... and Meredith did nothing to defend herself? Or did someone stab her with the right hand, switch hands, stab her with the left hand, switch knives?

Or ??? Is the medical examiner also incapable of doing his job?
 
The thing is, otto, from very early on in the case, ILE starts with Mignini's theory and then picks and chooses the evidence that will support that theory.

Since the theory is patent nonsense, I don't have any respect for the conclusions invented to support it.

Sorry, but that's how I see this case.

The police did not start with a theory from the prosecution. In the days shortly after the murder, no one knew what to think. The lies that Knox and Sollecito told drew attention to themselves.

Do I understand correctly that you reject all information presented and summarized in the trial?
 
Guys - we are getting pretty graphic here. I don't have time to catch up in the thread right now, but I am going to change the title to include a warning.

I am assuming you are all being as respectful to Meredith as you can be, while discussing this evidence but I'm adding this reminder, just in case.

Please be mindful.

Thank you,

Salem

ETA: Also, please remember COPYRIGHT. All pictures need to be linked up or removed.
 
Some of the pictures I post are not taken from another source, I do usually remember to reference images. I mistakenly assumed that because the website that hosted the Ron Hendry opinion (link) had been linked several times by Allusonz, and discussed for a couple of weeks, that everyone was familiar with the photos. Ron claims to have 100 photos and video of the crime scene. Several points he raised have been discussed here, such as: the "tiny room", and everyone would have had blood on their shoes.

Apologies to anyone I shocked with the photos from Ron Hendry's article.
 
This, for example, is based on an original photo but attempts to communicate the same idea without the gory photos. Could something like this substitute for referencing images from the linked information? http://www.salem-news.com/articles/december042010/amanda-know.php

knoxmurdersceneoriginal__.jpg
 
This, for example, is based on an original photo but attempts to communicate the same idea without the gory photos. Could something like this substitute for referencing images from the linked information? http://www.salem-news.com/articles/december042010/amanda-know.php

knoxmurdersceneoriginal__.jpg

She was killed and raped, thus I believe anyone can surmise where a number of her injuries were.

<modsnip> It is my belief that some parts were not made public as we simply do not need to know!

Thus I must ask what the real intent here is? Is it to see how many times the number of injuries to her can be mentioned? Or is it to try and determine what really happened.

Just to clarify and for the record there were 23 injuries to MK. Her throat was slashed and she asphyxiated on her own blood within minutes this is per Dr. Lalli whom did the autopsy

There was a reason this was done in chambers .........think about it

Murdered British student Meredith Kercher had at least 23 separate injuries on her body

The evidence was disclosed as jurors in the murder trial of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito were shown graphic photographs and video footage of the post mortem on Ms Kercher's body

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...student-Meredith-Kercher-had-23-injuries.html

The autopsy results concluded that it took her several minutes to die, as she inhaled her own blood. Her hyoid bone was broken, her superior thyroid artery had been severed by a stab wound, her lungs filled with blood causing asphyxiation and she had suffered bruising to her vagina and perineum

Murdered British student Meredith Kercher had at least 23 separate injuries on her body

The evidence was disclosed as jurors in the murder trial of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito were shown graphic photographs and video footage of the post mortem on Ms Kercher's body

The forensic pathologist, Dr. Lalli, initially concluded that the pattern of bruises, defensive wounds/cuts, and stab wounds could not indicate whether one or multiple attackers had been present. There were larger cuts on her right hand, possibly as defensive wounds (with no one restraining her right hand), but only small cuts on her left hand. Both hands were covered in blood, as if holding her neck after it was stabbed. Dr. Lalli concluded that strangulation was attempted before the stab wounds were made

http://toestraighteners.com/murder-of-meredith-kercher/


Her hyoid bone was broken, her superior thyroid artery had been severed by a stab wound

http://toestraighteners.com/murder-of-meredith-kercher/
 
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