AZ - Gabriel Johnson, 8 months, 26 Dec 2009 - last seen in Texas - #14

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I think Logan may have told Tammi that the county had issued a felony kidnapping warrant, that Gabriel was his child, and that he wanted him back.

I wonder if Logan told Tammi that Elizabeth had rages and was dangerous and that he feared for Gabriel.

And if he did, and Tammi still egged Eliz on, well... I don't want to get banned so I'll shut up.
I thought at the time the charge was custodial interference and the kidnapping charge was added afterward? I think you have some good questions though!
 
Well I think Tammi got upset because if Eliz didn't come back, then Tammi wouldn't get the baby she wanted.

The baby broker theory doesn't work for me. I think Tammi was all about getting Gabriel for herself.

I think she applied major pressure to Eliz to come back, and that didn't work for Eliz because she just plain didn't want Logan to get his hands on Gabriel.

I can just see Eliz's fury increasing.

Unfortunately I don't see how she could have found anyone else to 'adopt' Gabriel so quickly (Dec 23 to Dec 26).

I want to know how often Tammi talked to her during that timeframe, and I want to see all the texts between them.

Elizabeth is ultimately responsible, but I think Tammi fanned the flames. I don't see how with Logan's descriptions of Eliz's rages how Tammi could not see the state Eliz was in, and make the quick and easy logical jump to Gabriel being in extreme danger.

Excellent!! This is starting to tie together now and make a LOT of sense!

:clap::clap::clap::clap:
 
He sure wasn't smiling in those pics. Most babies will smile at their mom even if they are tired or a little sick. Those stained up jumpsuit pajamas are awful. I guess she couldn't even be bothered to put a bib on the baby when she fed him or to clean his nose.

I didn't see dirty jumpsuits or dirty nose........where are these pix and when were they taken?? TIA
 
I thought they narrowed it down to one particular landfill of interest days ago.

I can see why they put more effort elsewhere also - they wanted to find him if he was alive. If he was in the landfill then, he will still be in there now.

Yep I agree. They have to put looking for a possibly live child over looking for a possibly deceased child. Because of the danger to a child and the urgency of the need to rescue them.
 
Not necessarily. She is still going to face a bunch of charges anyway so why does it matter. You have to think of how she is thinking right now. She sees it as she is going to jail for a long time no matter what she does, so why bother.

Because if Gabriel is alive, he's in grave danger, because she gave him to people she doesn't know. They could be pedophiles.
 
I believe logan did talk with her. The interview of him I saw..he said she told him (made it sound verbally.. not text) thatshe had killed him... suffocated him.

Was there only that ONE conversation, or do we have any idea how much they had talked by phone in those few days?
 
I don't think they've had time to go over their pc's this quickly. They have to retrieve files they most likely have deleted.

Think NG asked if these 6 pic's were sent to the S's? If so, why didn't they show them on NG?

I still believe she (TS) wouldn't have lied for no reason and that she at least may still have info on why EJ went to SA. Otherwise, why hold back when obviously the truth will come out as they now know?

It doesn't take very long to retrieve deleted files. The data is either there or it isn't. Deleted files aren't really deleted, the space is freed up so that the card can be written on again. LE has some pretty no-brainer tools to get deleted photos off of memory cards.

If your curious, delete the memory card on your camera, then go here and download this software and see what kind of images you can get off of your own card.
 
Well I think Tammi got upset because if Eliz didn't come back, then Tammi wouldn't get the baby she wanted.

The baby broker theory doesn't work for me. I think Tammi was all about getting Gabriel for herself.

I think she applied major pressure to Eliz to come back, and that didn't work for Eliz because she just plain didn't want Logan to get his hands on Gabriel.

I can just see Eliz's fury increasing.

Unfortunately I don't see how she could have found anyone else to 'adopt' Gabriel so quickly (Dec 23 to Dec 26).

I want to know how often Tammi talked to her during that timeframe, and I want to see all the texts between them.

Elizabeth is ultimately responsible, but I think Tammi fanned the flames. I don't see how with Logan's descriptions of Eliz's rages how Tammi could not see the state Eliz was in, and make the quick and easy logical jump to Gabriel being in extreme danger.
I think this might just be exactly what happened. I can't see EJ randomly finding "adoptive parents" in the short time she was in San Antonio. I still think there's a possibility she went there for that purpose and the deal fell through. Or it could be she just ended up there after taking off from AZ. MOO
 
I didn't see dirty jumpsuits or dirty nose........where are these pix and when were they taken?? TIA

Anna Lisa said the baby had dried boogers around his nose and I could swear at least one pic showed the stained jumpsuit. Hopefully I'm not imagining it, so will have to go look again.
 
Or maybe EJ didn't contact Analisa from the cell phone? Seems strange but this whole case is strange, imo.

Yeah, who knows? I suspect she contacted her on a hotel computer and LE might not have had that info. Since Elizabeth wanted to take Gabriel to her house, I suspect she was trying to avoid someone coming to the hotel and being able to identify where she was? I don't know. I just think we shoudl hold off from bashing LE right now. And, I am not one who own't if I think they did something wrong.
 
Because if Gabriel is alive, he's in grave danger, because she gave him to people she doesn't know. They could be pedophiles.
I don't believe she cares, and that is why it isn't hard to believe she could've killed him. The photos don't necessarily mean she was a loving mother. In fact, they look a little staged to me, like she was trying to show that she was taking good care of him, even giving him medicine for teething. MOO
 
I just wanted to know for myself how "deadly" Tylenol was so I looked it up, in 2009 a study was done and a little over 400 people per year (thats adults AND children) die from tylenol overdose, and in my opinion I am sure most of those are from things like Loratab, or other acetaminophen drugs that people use to get high, and I have never heard of Tylenol making someone tired or lethargic, not saying it dont happen but I have never heard of it.

Here is the link about the Tylenal study.http://www.pamf.org/news/health/1209acetaminophen.html
 
Do you know if that was a call made by EJ to Logan, AFTER he didn't call HER for several days?

I have no idea. I feel like I just saw him say this in the press conference last night...But other times I read she had texted him saying that.

In the email from Tammi to Elizabeth...Tammi says the detectives have a recording of Elizabeth telling Logan she killed gabriel and that she sounded distraught

I would assume they argued back and forth a few times prior that.. but that is just my assumption.


IMO this should be called into LE just in case

I will do that and maybe they can figure out what other ads analisa had up... because they are all down now
 
EJ could have bought toys and the book (they did look new), cleaned up the room and staged the pictures behind Gabriel on the bed pics. Frankly, I think the pictures look like they were taken to tell a story. Those pics in the background could be to prove those were pics of Gabriel. The pics of him taking medicine and playing with medicine look like a threat to me. I bet she was planning to eventually email these pics to Logan, once she thought she was out of the reach of the law.

Maybe she was sending them to him, during that week. To try to pressure him to sign the papers.

If I'm not mistaken, he said he was upset when he saw the pictures, but didn't say when he had first seen them.
 
Yeah, who knows? I suspect she contacted her on a hotel computer and LE might not have had that info. Since Elizabeth wanted to take Gabriel to her house, I suspect she was trying to avoid someone coming to the hotel and being able to identify where she was? I don't know. I just think we shoudl hold off from bashing LE right now. And, I am not one who own't if I think they did something wrong.
I wouldn't want to be in LE's shoes right now. EJ was arrested in Dade Co., Florida, on a custodial interference warrant out of Arizona. The baby is missing. She's not talking. So they have to find out where she was inbetween AZ & FL, find out she was in San Antonio, and already is days after she left there on a bus using an alias. Then her g'dad's car is found at a Motel 6 on Jan. 5 with no signs of Gabriel. And we're expecting them to have searched every landfill assuming what EJ had texted Logan was true? Initially it seemed like the last thing a sane person would do is text somebody with details of how they'd killed their baby and how he was disposed of. MOO
 
I believe logan did talk with her. The interview of him I saw..he said she told him (made it sound verbally.. not text) thatshe had killed him... suffocated him.

I heard that too and was confused because I thought it was only a text.
 
I thought they narrowed it down to one particular landfill of interest days ago.

I can see why they put more effort elsewhere also - they wanted to find him if he was alive. If he was in the landfill then, he will still be in there now.
of course they wanted to find him alive
but IMO with a threat like that they should have searched any and all possible landfills immediately. Sure he will still be there if thats where he ended up...but where. Finding him buried under tons and tons of garbage will be hard. Not to mention im sure forensic evidence would be less likely now :(
 
Geez...what a flurry of info tonight...just coming in...missed NG at 7 here...will watch at 9...but did she show some different pictures than we have already seen?
 
And let's not forget that the babysitter said that EJ was mad at her for being late

What about this?-- maybe she had an appointment with underground adoption agent -- she was mad at being late for that --she drove all the way to SA for this meeting

The meeting goes well, so she comes back 'happy'
Then TS calls her and throws some unknown wrench into the latest plan
EJ is tired of this constant changing plan -- she tried to give Gabe to the Smiths 2 weeks before -- she is tired of Logan ruining her life --
She does not want to go back and she does not care what TS has said
She tells the babysitter while she is still frustrated that she doesn't know if she will need her again because she needs to think
She thinks for the next few days
She moves forward with her plan of giving Gabriel away
Early morning on the 26th she wakes up Gabe to get him ready for his new parents; she takes pics while he is still groggy to remember him by
Yes, she still carries a framed pic of her mother --why not her baby?

ALL speculation with a bias, yes, hope that Gabe is still alive

jmo - but the "underground adoption agency" wouldn't be so inundated with birth mothers that they would write EJ off because she couldn't line up a sitter.

Dang! For that matter, why would she need a sitter if that's who she was seeing?! [Sorry if I'm missing the obvious on this.]

I know I probably drive everybody crazy with my doubts re: the illegal Underground [for "rescuing" children from "bad" homes], and the whole idea of this vast number of current black market adoptions with the requisite abundance of available babies [esp caucasion], agencies, etc. I'm not going to debate this with anyone on here, but I do look forward to any eventual arrest(s) and trial(s) to see if there are such organizations still in existence in the US.

Just out of curiosity, did any of this stuff about "underground railroad" and secret adoption outfits come up in the KC threads? I wasn't here back then and the sheer number of threads and posts discourages me from even trying to check it out myself. Starting to wonder if it is brought up in every missing child case.

thx
 
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