IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #4

I was confused as to why they rushed to the lake too! Especially since the grandmother is quoted as saying she doesn't think the girls would even know the way to the lake. Very confusing case.

I posted this late last night, but thought it was worth running up the flagpole again...

I didn't see JVM last night, but from what was posted I gather that Lyric has a good relationship with her father but has limited contact with him?

If that's the case, then perhaps a "friend" of the father (someone who might have been introduced to Lyric as a friend, but was actually perhaps a drug contact) contacts her and tells her that he's going to meet her and take her to see dad, but it has to be done secretly because it's outside of dad's visitation schedule. The individual says to meet them on the path by the lake. Given the court dates and all, it sounds as if the father may be going back to jail, and if so, Lyric may have wanted to spend time with him first. It's possible that she tried to go off alone, but Elizabeth insisted on going with her.

This scenario could fit for someone using the girls as leverage/for retribution, it could be a pedo/druggie, or even a druggie desperate enough for money that they planned to sell the girls off.

It is even possible that the last time she disappeared, she might have been with her father. Him telling the mother to call the cops (then telling Lyric to hurry home) would have been a good way to throw suspicion off of her having been there, if indeed she wasn't supposed to be. If someone knew that she had snuck over there once, it would have been easy to lure her into thinking she was going to see him again.

CarrieBean said:

Just got out in May after the 5 months for violating her parole, is how I took it.

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May of what year? And was the violation more use/sale of meth or was it something petty (comparatively speaking, IMO) like not 100% stopping for a stop sign? But she was on parole so it'd be a bigger penalty? I do not know anything, just asking as potentially helpful questions come to mind.

threecrazykids said:

Adding to this...there has also been comments on the Waterloo/Cedar Falls courier live comments section that the divers would need to be briefed, get their plan, etc. before they dive - which could by why the dive may not happen until tomorrow.
These people are only coming from California...which on a normal commercial flight would take maybe 4-6 hours (if they came through Chicago...which God willing they are on a DIRECT FLIGHT and not taking their time). They had known as of yesterday they were coming in, so why couldn't they be briefed, and get their plan in place on that plane ride? I know I am just rushing things and there are measures that need to be taken, but geez...these families are beside themselves...get them in the water immediately! It really shouldn't take an immense amount of planning...this body of water is NOT that big.

I also find it hard to believe that the original dragging of the lake/sonar/wading searchers would not have found them if they were in there. I don't believe for one second that if those girls DID get in some boat (as pp have suggested) that no one would have seen this boat. The deep parts would NOT be near the edges, which then puts them out in the open. If it was a drowning I also find it hard to believe that some sort of thrashing/arm movement (between the 2 of them) would have gone unnoticed.

I also don't think anyone could have disposed of their bodies in that lake without someone seeing SOMETHING either. Whether it's as simple as "yes, while I was out there walking/riding etc. I did see a boat over in X area."

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Also...it is a serious medical danger to dive within 24 hours of flying due to the possibility of decompression sickness (DCS). That includes flying prior to and flying 24 hours after a dive. While dive depth can influence DCS...it is a standard precaution that most certfied and professional divers adhere to. IMOO

huckleberryhound said:

Has it ever been stated whether or not the girls wore bike helmets? If they did, it doesn't
seem likely they would ever go swimming with them on.

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Good question. I haven't read or watched everything, but I have yet to hear any reference to a bike helmet.

huckleberryhound said:

Has it ever been stated whether or not the girls wore bike helmets? If they did, it doesn't
seem likely they would ever go swimming with them on.

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That's something I hadn't thought about, and you make a good point. I haven't seen any reference to them wearing helmets but if they did, it's unlikely the girls would wear them into the lake.

According to this article divers are on site and starting to dive.

http://www.examiner.com/article/mis...stop-draining-lake-as-fbi-divers-begin-search

At approximately 12:00 pm, ET, draining equipment shut down as FBI divers prepared to enter the lake and search.

That to me reads they are there already! :woohoo:

Ms Pragmatic said:

I was confused as to why they rushed to the lake too! Especially since the grandmother is quoted as saying she doesn't think the girls would even know the way to the lake. Very confusing case.

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Kids and water are a dangerous combination in many situations. It is a normal place to look. IMOO

huckleberryhound said:

Has it ever been stated whether or not the girls wore bike helmets? If they did, it doesn't
seem likely they would ever go swimming with them on.

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I've wondered the same thing, but have seen no reports of wearing bike helmets.

BROUSSEAU: Correctly -- correct. You know, Misty was told one thing. I was told directly by the investigator. And I also watched the dogs myself. We were brought approximately halfway down on the south side of the lake. The bikes were probably, you know, 500 yards up ahead. You know, they were no longer there. I`m just saying that`s where they were dropped on the path. So the dogs were here. Back up. And just as Misty said, lined up and walked past the dog and the dog was able to sniff each one of us because we were all in those woods hunting around.

Then the dog one at a time, one for Elizabeth and one for Lyric, was allowed to smell articles of the girls. The dogs took off as fast as they could go. The men had to keep up with them. The dog clearly identified that Elizabeth was, in fact right where the bikes were found as she was there. And then the dog ran on into this area of dense forest and brush that`s probably about 300 to 400 yards long. And it`s easily accessed if you go out and around.

There`s a driveway and a big area where you can pull up onto it, pull up into it. And someone could have easily pulled up into that area and had been watching Lyric from where we`re standing here, Lyric and Elizabeth, when they`d went around. And then they went and accessed it at the other end.

And back to the investigation, the investigator told me so the dogs went farther on into the woods. And he said that gives us new leads and new information and we are going to stop at that point and we`re going to go back and analyze what these dogs have picked up because then of course the same thing was done for Lyric with another dog. And that dog did the same thing. Positively identified Lyric to be in that very same spot and also into the 300 to 400 stretch of woods.

They wouldn`t tell us anything beyond that point. They wanted to go back and analyze it and said they`d be in contact with us when they found out any more information.


snipped from http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1207/18/ijvm.01.html

lishac23 said:

I'm pretty sure they were briefed before they left CA. They were told the reason, the length/width of the lake, the depth, how much water is left, percentage of visibility, etc... However, I'd imagine that they'll need time to get acquainted with all the LE/FBI players working the case, a better idea (visually) of what the conditions are (visibility, plant life, etc). Based on these calculations they'll determine the best place to systematically start. Its a pretty extensive prep/process...I have the pleasure of knowing a few experienced divers...

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Good points, and thanks. They definitely shouldn't go in blind, we don't need another tragedy! (if this story even is one.. still trying to keep hope)

Ms Pragmatic said:

I was confused as to why they rushed to the lake too! Especially since the grandmother is quoted as saying she doesn't think the girls would even know the way to the lake. Very confusing case.

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IIRC...Aunt tammy said they checked all parks. that would include Deerwood Park and Meyers Lake. I know for a fact that the day the girls went missing my daughter's BF was at a different park in Evansdale and someone stopped to ask them if they had seen 2 girls on bikes...which they hadn't.

sreshowtime said:

thx Grainne- thought I missed something on dogs

You know I am still a little confused as to why the Aunt, grandma & nephew went rushing down to the lake from the get go :waitasec:
I mean the river is literally less than 1000 ft from the Collins residence...

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I think its been reported that it wasn't the first place they went. I think (can't remember where I saw it) that they stated they looked everywhere, including the Lake...the media only emphasized the lake part (as it appears they have been doing this whole time).

Ms Pragmatic said:

I was confused as to why they rushed to the lake too! Especially since the grandmother is quoted as saying she doesn't think the girls would even know the way to the lake. Very confusing case.

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I just assumed (yeah, I know) they rushed to the lake because they had heard bikes were found there.

It's just strange because, even still, they are insisting the children wouldn't have gone to the lake, but yet they checked the lake immediately. Isn't the river closer to their house?

Ms Pragmatic said:

I was confused as to why they rushed to the lake too! Especially since the grandmother is quoted as saying she doesn't think the girls would even know the way to the lake. Very confusing case.

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But the one witness says he sees them turn around from the lake to head home all the time? Confusing as you said.

That's true. The bikes were found there.

okay on the lake- I guess I missed them searching more close to home first

nursebeeme said:

maybe they rushed to the lake because that is where the bike trail is located? Just a thought.

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Maybe the brother saw them heading east, instead of west.

Ms Pragmatic said:

It's just strange because, even still, they are insisting the children wouldn't have gone to the lake, but yet they checked the lake immediately. Isn't the river closer to their house?

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I think some of their statements about the lake are hard to understand due to reporting. That is just my opinion.

The neighbor that was interviewed said he regularly saw they riding by his house near the lake so it was a normal route for them it would seem?

I think the most important thing to look at is that the family immediately started to look for them when they didn't return and the whole family seems to have come together to do it.

:moo: