VA - Couple & two teens found murdered, Farmville, 15 Sept 2009 #1

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strach304 said:
Which one is Emma? The black hair?
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Emma has dyed red hair.

But don't be confused by the tribute photos you are seeing to Emma and Melanie. Those have been posted after they died, but are being shown even on older posts.
 
Nessa said:
Absolutely...I feel bad for all concerned in this tragedy. Not knowing the family personally or seeing any medical/psych records on this case, my comments are made solely on knowing very little. People act differently in situations. I'm having the most trouble understanding the father taking them to that kind of concert. In a sense, it seems like he condones it by doing that. However, it may also be true that he would rather take them himself than her get there some other way. A situation I myself never want to be in personally. I am deeply saddened by many aspects of this case.
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I am sure it looks like approval. Trust me, it's not. Anyone who has never lived through the hell of a child who begins down a dangerous path has not a clue. That's not insulting others, btw. Just like I can never know what it's like to have cancer unless I get it. I am empathize and listen, but I can never know, and so how can I judge?

When a family is assaulted by a subculture, as happened in this case, it really does feel like a physical assault. You walk around, zombie-like, then frantic by turns, trying to stay calm, trying to figure out what approach is best, terrified you'll pick the wrong one. You feel guilty, and oftentimes, helpless. People are very, very quick to point fingers and judge what they do not understand. They are lucky they do not understand.

My entire family was a nervous wreck over my son's foray into the 'dark side.' My father had a stroke. I got high blood pressure. Endless, sleepless nights -- look, we're talking about teenagers here -- try MAKING them physically stay where you put them. They leave by way of windows or when you're sleeping or at work. Then, you get them into therapy. You try to compromise if you think it will keep them at home. Strange friends are welcomed to visit, and you find yourself taking your child to *their* home to visit. Just. Stay home. Stay safe. Please. Then, the all-nighters begin.

Next stop, in-patient treatment, where every evening you show up on the teen psych ward and see all the other suffering families visiting their suffering children, bearing flowers, teddy bears, and pained smiles. Then, you have to leave them there and go back to cry in your car. You know you showered love, care, and tender discipline upon them. You know they never went without a comfort or parental love. But. There you are, crying in your car, driving home to face their empty bedroom. But, you're scared to let them come home yet. At home you cannot watch them every minute.

when they do return, more problems may arise. We wound up going the group home route -- more supervision, more therapy --but they're only stopped up there with other suffering kids. So, try the grandparent route -- grandma and granddad are retired and have the time to dote upon the child. It doesn't matter. But at each step you hope it will, so you keep trying.

Emma's parents loved her desperately. They went to the nth degree to personally protect her. I am fairly certain they tried all the things that I and others did, and taking her and her friends to the concert was just another one of those things.

You should all remind yourselves that when your child ventures into those dangerous sub-cultures, you, the parent, are suddenly thrust into it with them. It is an utterly alien place to most people. It is difficult to find your bearings, to know what is the best way to navigate and keep your family safe. It is a frightening experience. I cannot even begin to imagine the horror when the murders began. PLEASE cease the "what ifs," the "why didn't theys." You have no idea.
 
For some gut reason I think the girls were killed first. Either very late Tuesday (after Mel's Myspace logon) or on Wednesday. Somewhere it was mentioned that mom was out of town at a conference, not sure of the timeframe or even if that's been confirmed, but maybe she was killed when she came home (or possibly when she came home from work on Wednesday). The father was the last one killed. He probably went to the house to check in on them on Thursday, before leaving for Richmond. I'm guessing his calls weren't being returned and he wanted to make sure everything was okay.

What I don't understand is why Sam stayed at the house. Was he just waiting it out till his plane departure? He didn't leave until Friday. He was in that house with the bodies for days!
 
gxm said:
For some gut reason I think the girls were killed first. Either very late Tuesday (after Mel's Myspace logon) or on Wednesday. Somewhere it was mentioned that mom was out of town at a conference, not sure of the timeframe or even if that's been confirmed, but maybe she was killed when she came home (or possibly when she came home from work on Wednesday). The father was the last one killed. He probably went to the house to check in on them on Thursday, before leaving for Richmond. I'm guessing his calls weren't being returned and he wanted to make sure everything was okay.

What I don't understand is why Sam stayed at the house. Was he just waiting it out till his plane departure? He didn't leave until Friday. He was in that house with the bodies for days!
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That was me that mentioned the conference. I had it confirmed a couple hours ago that Dr. Kelley was with the group that traveled to the concert. I'm pretty sure they got home Sunday night. The father left the mother, two girls, and Sam at the Farmville house, and then traveled to his own home in Pamplin (an even tinier town, about 30 minutes to the west of Farmville). The following Thursday he called the house, but no one answered. He had to travel to Richmond that late afternoon and stopped by Farmville on his way. He was murdered on Thursday. I received this information from a source VERY close to the minister.
 
From what I've heard, he didn't stay at the house all the time following the murders. He was out and around the town as well.
 
Gene said:
Whew...that was alot of screen grabs. Hope it will be useful to someone. Sam had two other MS pages...anyone else want to screen grab them before they disappear?

Emma and Melaine both hav e MS Pages, but they were both set to private.
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Most of Mel's MS page is still viewable.
 
Gene said:
Emma has dyed red hair.

But don't be confused by the tribute photos you are seeing to Emma and Melanie. Those have been posted after they died, but are being shown even on older posts.
Click to expand...

Thanks for clearing that up. I was wondering that too. They were both such pretty girls. One would think Sam would have been grateful to even hang out with them.
 
Atlantica said:
I am sure it looks like approval. Trust me, it's not. Anyone who has never lived through the hell of a child who begins down a dangerous path has not a clue. That's not insulting others, btw. Just like I can never know what it's like to have cancer unless I get it. I am empathize and listen, but I can never know, and so how can I judge?

When a family is assaulted by a subculture, as happened in this case, it really does feel like a physical assault. You walk around, zombie-like, then frantic by turns, trying to stay calm, trying to figure out what approach is best, terrified you'll pick the wrong one. You feel guilty, and oftentimes, helpless. People are very, very quick to point fingers and judge what they do not understand. They are lucky they do not understand.

My entire family was a nervous wreck over my son's foray into the 'dark side.' My father had a stroke. I got high blood pressure. Endless, sleepless nights -- look, we're talking about teenagers here -- try MAKING them physically stay where you put them. They leave by way of windows or when you're sleeping or at work. Then, you get them into therapy. You try to compromise if you think it will keep them at home. Strange friends are welcomed to visit, and you find yourself taking your child to *their* home to visit. Just. Stay home. Stay safe. Please. Then, the all-nighters begin.

Next stop, in-patient treatment, where every evening you show up on the teen psych ward and see all the other suffering families visiting their suffering children, bearing flowers, teddy bears, and pained smiles. Then, you have to leave them there and go back to cry in your car. You know you showered love, care, and tender discipline upon them. You know they never went without a comfort or parental love. But. There you are, crying in your car, driving home to face their empty bedroom. But, you're scared to let them come home yet. At home you cannot watch them every minute.

when they do return, more problems may arise. We wound up going the group home route -- more supervision, more therapy --but they're only stopped up there with other suffering kids. So, try the grandparent route -- grandma and granddad are retired and have the time to dote upon the child. It doesn't matter. But at each step you hope it will, so you keep trying.

Emma's parents loved her desperately. They went to the nth degree to personally protect her. I am fairly certain they tried all the things that I and others did, and taking her and her friends to the concert was just another one of those things.

You should all remind yourselves that when your child ventures into those dangerous sub-cultures, you, the parent, are suddenly thrust into it with them. It is an utterly alien place to most people. It is difficult to find your bearings, to know what is the best way to navigate and keep your family safe. It is a frightening experience. I cannot even begin to imagine the horror when the murders began. PLEASE cease the "what ifs," the "why didn't theys." You have no idea.
Click to expand...


Your description really makes the situation come alive for me, Atlantica. I do see your point.
 
Atlantica said:
That was me that mentioned the conference. I had it confirmed a couple hours ago that Dr. Kelley was with the group that traveled to the concert. I'm pretty sure they got home Sunday night. The father left the mother, two girls, and Sam at the Farmville house, and then traveled to his own home in Pamplin (an even tinier town, about 30 minutes to the west of Farmville). The following Thursday he called the house, but no one answered. He had to travel to Richmond that late afternoon and stopped by Farmville on his way. He was murdered on Thursday. I received this information from a source VERY close to the minister.
Click to expand...

Have you heard anything about when Dr. Kelley was last seen? Or in what rooms the bodies were discovered, were any in bed?
 
JoeFromLB said:
http://www2.timesdispatch.com/rtd/news/local/crime/article/FARM20S1_20090919-222405/294216/

Read the first comment below the article, posted by paulc418

:eek:
Click to expand...

this scares me esp. in light of the comment I saw on one of the pages which I couldn't get saved (will try again now)

it said: 'and the prophecy shall come true' (I've quoted from memory) & was posted on one of Sam's myspace pages in the comment section by one of his 'friends'

I don't know if I can find it again somehow but even if I can't, the cops should be able to get cached versions from myspace or something right? (I'm not very computer-literate)
 
Sam had 3 Myspace pages. Emma wrote exclusively to him on one of his pages and Melanine wrote to him on another. I have given the cached link and screen grabs to the page Emma wrote on earlier.

Here is the page where Melanie wrote:

http://www.myspace.com/lildemondog_wir

Can someone make a series of screen grabs for it so that it does not get lost? Otherwise, I hope I can do it tomorrow.
 
I was thinking... it doesn't really seem like this Sam orchestrated the whole thing from the beginning, like, as a set-up. I mean, it doesn't seem like he was trolling the internet for someone to kill and then chatted up these girls and went after them. The messages exchanged between them on Myspace, and the way the mutual friends talk about them, I get the idea that something went bad suddenly. They went to the concert and then they came back. And the father felt like he could leave the house. I wonder what went on with the girls that led Sam to actually kill the girl he'd come to see and everyone else.

Or do you all get the impression that he was just a psychotic killer from the get-go and these were his prey?
 
gxm said:
Have you heard anything about when Dr. Kelley was last seen? Or in what rooms the bodies were discovered, were any in bed?
Click to expand...

I don't know, but I've heard we should know something soon, and I'll post it.
 
gxm said:
Have you heard anything about when Dr. Kelley was last seen? Or in what rooms the bodies were discovered, were any in bed?
Click to expand...

If we get any information about dates, please let me know. I would like to include it on the timeline on page 1.
 
tapu said:
I was thinking... it doesn't really seem like this Sam orchestrated the whole thing from the beginning, like, as a set-up. I mean, it doesn't seem like he was trolling the internet for someone to kill and then chatted up these girls and went after them. The messages exchanged between them on Myspace, and the way the mutual friends talk about them, I get the idea that something went bad suddenly. They went to the concert and then they came back. And the father felt like he could leave the house. I wonder what went on with the girls that led Sam to actually kill the girl he'd come to see and everyone else.

Or do you all get the impression that he was just a psychotic killer from the get-go and these were his prey?
Click to expand...

Based on things i've read on their MS pages, and just gut instinct, I -- at least for the moment -- support the love triangle theory. When you read Emma's very frequent wall posts to Sam, it's pretty clear she's obsessed with someone she's never even met. (hah, my son went through that as well, and had us terrified for quite a while that he was going to leave one night and hitch-hike to San Diego). Insecure as hell, uber-romantic in ways only a teenage girl can be, it would be little wonder that Sam would arrive at the very least a little apprehensive -- keen, mind you -- but apprehensive over meeting someone who had already decided that he was her "one and only' and the "most important person in my life" among other inappropriate superlatives.

So, we know she had an unhealthy obsession. They meet. Sparks do not fly. She keeps trying to make them fly, though. Sam turns to Mel. Plenty of sparks (plus, she's a refuge from all the obsession).

Where it escalated from there I do not know. In her obsession, it is not out of the realm of possibility that Emma verbally or even physically confronted the two. Not with murder on her mind, but it may have triggered something in Sam.

By saying this I am neither defending Sam nor blaming Emma for anything that happened. He is clearly severely troubled, but I do not think he is evil, nor psychotic. The above scenario makes the most sense to me, but we'll have to see what he has to say. So far he seems pretty forthright, admitting to the crimes. It will be interesting to hear his version of the details. Unfortunately, it's the only one we'll get.
 
gxm said:
For some gut reason I think the girls were killed first. Either very late Tuesday (after Mel's Myspace logon) or on Wednesday. Somewhere it was mentioned that mom was out of town at a conference, not sure of the timeframe or even if that's been confirmed, but maybe she was killed when she came home (or possibly when she came home from work on Wednesday). The father was the last one killed. He probably went to the house to check in on them on Thursday, before leaving for Richmond. I'm guessing his calls weren't being returned and he wanted to make sure everything was okay.

What I don't understand is why Sam stayed at the house. Was he just waiting it out till his plane departure? He didn't leave until Friday. He was in that house with the bodies for days!
Click to expand...

Here is my problem with the idea that the girls were killed at the same time.

Mel's last MS log in was 15 Sept and she was expected back home on 16 September. She didnt make it. Mel was killed on 15 or 16 September.

The police came to the door on 17 September, spoke to Sam and did not smell anything. On 18 September they did smell the bodies. I think that it is unlikely that they were killed on 15 September or the police would have probably smelled the bodies when they visited the first time. This would narrow the date to 16 September.

However, Emma's last log in was 14 September. Two days with no MS log in? Seems unlikely. Why would Melanie be checking her MS account and not Emma?

I could be wrong, but I have the feeling that Emma died before Melanine. Not only due to the timing concens above, but also due to the different moods expressed on their Myspace accounts (Emma was sad, Melanie happy see timeline). Why should Emma be sad if her boyfriend is with her?
 
Gene said:
An interesting interview with the sister.

Some particular points:

* He met Emma Niederbrock at a concert (some months ago) in Southern California, she said.

* "They were really, really lovey-dovey," said Sarah McCroskey, who said her brother had saved money for months to pay for the trip. "I've never seen him that excited."

* Last Tuesday and Thursday, she said, her brother left her messages saying he was calling to check in. "He said, 'I love you,' " she said. "In this family we swear and burp - that was just really weird that he said that."

* she saw an interview after her brother's arrest in which he told a television reporter, "Jesus told me to do it." But she said it wasn't a sign of a psychotic break. "He's just a complete sarcastic a-," she said. "That's just his sense of humor."


Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/09/21/BA6719QAUS.DTL#ixzz0RmH1LpQd
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wow - the last two quotes in that interview are very telling ... if that were my brother, I think I'd be in denial for awhile about his guilt, even if he admitted it to me - I'd be questioning his confession

it seems strange to me that she's talking so much (online posts & giving interviews) and addressing her brother's guilt too & in an absolute way
 
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