Why was Karr so important to Lacy??

DeeDee249 · Apr 4, 2012

Agatha_C said:
Thanks UK! Hope you brought your secret decoder ring for reading in-between the lines because whats written in ink on reports and studies is not going to teach you anything.... Its all between the lines.....

Oh wow, I turned my antenna to the left and Im picking up a soccer game in Sao Paulo need to go....

Hey, y'know, ever since I had my braces removed from my teeth, I can no longer receive transmissions from the Mother Ship.

Agatha_C · Apr 4, 2012

DeeDee249 said:
Hey, y'know, ever since I had my braces removed from my teeth, I can no longer receive transmissions from the Mother Ship.

BWAAAHHAAAAAAAA!!!!! DeeDee, you and UK both gave me the snortin laugh and that hasnt happened in a coons age..... :floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

smurf86 · Apr 5, 2012

Maikai said:
Nope.....the killer has been identified by the DNA---especially the touch DNA which matches the other DNA. There just isn't a name attached to the DNA, which could indicate it was no one close to the family. That's sufficent for me---there is no innocent explanation for the same DNA being found in multiple locations.

So why have they not arrested him/her/them? if the DNA identifies them why are they not behind bars???

DeeDee249 · Apr 5, 2012

smurf86 said:
So why have they not arrested him/her/them? if the DNA identifies them why are they not behind bars???

We all know the answer, don't we? Because the killer has NOT been identified.
Identity = NAME. That is what an "identity" is. A specific person.

jaded cat · Apr 6, 2012

DeeDee249 said:
Hey, y'know, ever since I had my braces removed from my teeth, I can no longer receive transmissions from the Mother Ship.

When I got my dental implants, my signals from the Mother Ship started up again! Maybe there is something to that Mother Ship theory after all... :woohoo:

smurf86 · Apr 6, 2012

DeeDee249 said:
We all know the answer, don't we? Because the killer has NOT been identified.
Identity = NAME. That is what an "identity" is. A specific person.

Thanks DD thats exactly what I thought identity meant, that DNA is about as useful as a chocolate teapot.

DeeDee249 · Apr 6, 2012

smurf86 said:
Thanks DD thats exactly what I thought identity meant, that DNA is about as useful as a chocolate teapot.

Now...I would have use for a chocolate teapot. Chocolate ANYTHING. MMmmmm those bunny ears. Gonna invent just a bag of chocolate bunny ears.

Now... it is "that" time of year again.
For your amusement and VERY off-topic so don't click if you find OT posts annoying:

http://www.lordofthepeeps.com Make sure to click on the "movie" section on the left side of the page.

And for you forensic and science buffs: http://www.peepresearch.org

Whaleshark · Apr 6, 2012

My favorite exploding marshmallow in a microwave amusement!

Knot4u2no · Apr 10, 2012

smurf86 said:
Ok so we know that JMK was/is the resident nutter on the JBR case, but why was he so important to ML and why did she feel the need to go the lenghts of getting him from Thailand to US? And whay was she so desperate to exhonerate the Ramsey's?

Right off the bat i would like to say that from all the transcripts and interviews i have seen including the highly publicesed return the the US he NEVER actually admited to murdering JBR; he said he was with her when she died and that her death was an accident. It was one of the Thai officials that said Karr had stated that he had attempted to kidnap her then strangled her when it all went wrong and as far as i am aware there is no official confirmation that Karr said this.

Mary Lacey's relentless pursuit of Karr was a way to claw back some of the reputation that was so severly damaged by this case through media leaks and other things, that the Boulder DA needed a 'scape goat' to clear the family and put this awful crime to bed once and for all her downfall was none of the evidence matched Karr and his supposed confession that by rights isn't a confession at all. I asked a police friend of my grandmothers if what Karr said was deemed a confession and he told me that it would be classified as a partial disclosure that needed futher investigation.

I started looking into Karr's background to try and create a better picture of who this man is and why he would try to tie himself to one of the most notorious crimes of our time.

There was a significantly large age gap between Karr's mother and father and was the same large gap between the father and his second wife both marriges broke down and Karr's early life was somewhat turbulant as his mother believed that Karr was possesed by deamons and tried to burn him alive as an infant she was subesquently sectioned. Karr moved around quite a bit as a child also. Karr was twice married once to a 13 year old girl whom he took out of state to marry her and lied about her age, the girls sister said Karr abused her sister in everyway possible; the girl applied to the courts for an annulmet of said marrige on the grounds she feared for her life at the time of the wedding. Karr's second marrige was to a 16 year old girl whom he had gotten pregnant ( twin girls were born in the september after the marrige but died the same day).

Karr and his second wife had three boys in quick succession but divorced in 2001 after Karr was arrested for 5 misdemeanour counts of possesing child *advertiser censored*, for which he recieved probation and the court records were sealed. Karr had a job as a teacher in 14 different schools some of which he was accused of molestation and impropriety with minors. He also had a licence for daycare with up to 6 childre at a time ranging in age from birth to 14, Karr eventually relocated to Thailand where he taught at a school and did daycare for a family and was eventually arrested for child abuse by the Thai authorities it was then he instigated he was linked to the death of Jonbenet and the information filtered back to Lacey who had Karr extradited back to the US, Karr had also been corresponding for 4 years with Michael Tracey the U of C proffessor about his involvement with the emails becoming more and more graphic. Karr is currently living as the trams-gender woman named Alexis.

Sorry for rehasing most of the stuff we already know but it is nessasary i promise.

Karr , being raised in a family where the dominat male is undertaking relationships with girls significantly younger thatn him taught Karr that this was acceptable behaviour. He has an extroverted personality so he craves attention and needs to be recognised for anything he does no matter how grotesque the act is and so would not have kept quiet about being involved in JBRs death for so long he wouldn't have been able to keep a lid on it and the more media intrest grew the more difficult he would have found it to contain himself. For someone with his personality type any attention is good attention.

Karr driven by an all consuming obsession felt the compulsion to be connected with JBR and possibly PR too as in his emails he never wanted to conversate with John just Patsy possibly becsause it would have been easier to taunt the emotional Patsy where as john would have been a tougher nut to crack. Karr's obsession with her ran so deep he fabricated a relationship between him and Jonbenet to the point where he truly believed he was an importand part of her life, Jonbenet consumed Karr to the point where he lived and breathed JBR.

Even now as people discuss this case over the net or in person Karr's name is mentioned so he forever immoralized as the crackpot wierdo that claimed to kill JBR and has a perchant for little girls.

If anyone has been able to stomach reading his trash or watching his interviews you will see that he never says "yep i'm your guy i killed her i did this, this and this" him knowing details of the murder are irrelevant as most of us know the same if not more that he does, he skirts invasive questions with "i'm not answering that" or " i can't say" he just repetes that he was with her when she died and thes is the most important line in his whole vile speech because being with some one when they die doesn't make you a killer it means that you were witness to them dying, and when he says it was an accident well that is the general consensus between RDI and even some IDI say gthe same.

Karr was asked if he was innocent and he said no, but as he said he was only with her when she died the only thing he is guilty of is failing to report an accident.

Getting back to ML she was one contradiction after another riding the coat tails of AH. Hunters preformance on this case is laughable his unethical and unprofessionl demeanour futher damaged a botched case and Lacy just picked up where he left off, Karr was a damage limitation excersise at the expence of the tax payer to put this case to bed and forget about it. She took a gamble on Karr and it was an epic backfire and was on show for the whole world to see because by then the whole world wanted answers.

Undoubtely Karr is an active predatiry pedophile regsrdless of his/her sex and should never be let within spitting distance of a child of any age but the point id that a district attorneys office were praying that DNA was a match or his writing matched the ransome note so that they could scapegoat an innocent man ( I know he didd't do much to discoursge them); But the sheer eagerness of a DA to extradite someone who gave no confession or DNA, handwrting to make her self look good and clear a family of suspicion was stupidity at it greatest; she went on to say that unless you were there at the time no one can be cleared beyond reasonable doubt forgive me if the quote isn't 100% accurate.

There seemed to be an element of point scoring because the BPD had no suspects except the Ramsey's and the DAs office had seemingly caught the perfect perp. Bottom line, Lacy needed Karr to be the perp for a bucket load of reasons such as; the image of the big bad bogey man was real and he killed JBR, to put the case to bed once and for all and to possibly futher Lacy's political career. Karr was too good to be true, since when does the culprit of the most publicized murder fall into the lap of the authorities? THEY DON'T!! Lacy tried to pull the wool over the worlds eyes and failed.

Getting back to Karr, I have forgotten most of what I knew about him and this case when I profiled him: http://www.deviantcrimes.com/BRACEKarr.htm

Nevertheless, I do remember a couple of things that I have kept in the back of my mind. If I remember correctly, Karr had a computer that went missing. Now that interested me. Some sophisticated pedophiles tend to network, even internationally, to share and build resources. That computer may have revealed Karrs local pedophile contacts. In another forum, which no longer exists, I speculated that if Karr had a local pedophile partner, it would have been a female pedophile. Just a thought, not even a strong opinion, but it lingers.

Russell

DeeDee249 · Apr 10, 2012

Recently, Karr has been living as a woman and presenting himself as a woman. I do not know if he is truly transgender (has had any gender reassignment surgery or hormone treatments) or if he is simply a transvestite. He may be posing as woman to be able to get closer to little girls, the true objects of his sexual obsessions.
Someone usually cannot change their sexual attractions. That is why it is impossible to cure a pedophile- they can be chemically castrated if male, but female pedophiles are harder to treat. The castration ends the ability to perform sexually but may not end the attraction and the person may still harbor thoughts of violence against his victims.
If Karr is presenting himself as a woman, after admitting to obsessions with little girls (JB in particular), and has been previously married twice to underage or very young girls, I doubt he is no longer attracted to little girls. He is still a danger to children and we can thank Mary Lacy for bringing him back into the US. Not that I wished him to still be able to prey on children in Thailand, but in a place like that, there is actually punishment for people like him, unlike here, where our liberal courts excuse even the most heinous of sexual offenses against children.

BBB167893 · Apr 17, 2012

smurf86 said:
Ok so we know that JMK was/is the resident nutter on the JBR case, but why was he so important to ML and why did she feel the need to go the lenghts of getting him from Thailand to US? And whay was she so desperate to exhonerate the Ramsey's?

Mary Lacey's relentless pursuit of Karr was a way to claw back some of the reputation that was so severly damaged by this case through media leaks and other things, that the Boulder DA needed a 'scape goat' to clear the family and put this awful crime to bed once and for all

That's what Craig Silverman and Dan Caplis said, too.

I think it was more than just that. She wanted personal glory and the chance to tell her detractors in the police department "I told you so." Lest we forget, she was in their corner from Day One.

Getting back to ML she was one contradiction after another riding the coat tails of AH. Hunters preformance on this case is laughable his unethical and unprofessionl demeanour futher damaged a botched case and Lacy just picked up where he left off,

Damn right! And it sickens me at how they got away with it! Well, if what the padre told me on Sundays is true, they won't get away with it. Jonbenet's little dead body is at their feet!

Karr was a damage limitation excersise at the expence of the tax payer to put this case to bed and forget about it. She took a gamble on Karr and it was an epic backfire and was on show for the whole world to see because by then the whole world wanted answers.

Smurf, I believe it was you and I who said that Mary Lacy should have done the right thing and stepped down in the wake of the Karr debacle to maintain whatever dignity she and her office had left. And if she refused, the governor should have FORCED her to step down. At the very least, there should have been a recall election. But that didn't happen, because nobody in Boulder gave a damn.

Undoubtely Karr is an active predatiry pedophile regsrdless of his/her sex and should never be let within spitting distance of a child of any age but the point is that a district attorneys office were praying that DNA was a match or his writing matched the ransom note so that they could scapegoat an innocent man ( I know he didd't do much to discoursge them); But the sheer eagerness of a DA to extradite someone who gave no confession or DNA, handwrting to make her self look good and clear a family of suspicion was stupidity at it greatest; she went on to say that unless you were there at the time no one can be cleared beyond reasonable doubt forgive me if the quote isn't 100% accurate.

I'm convinced, smurf, that they WOULD have scapegoated him right into the hangman's noose regardless of evidence (with him helping them the WHOLE WAY) IF they thought they could get away with it. But they shot themselves in the foot big-time.

There seemed to be an element of point scoring because the BPD had no suspects except the Ramsey's and the DAs office had seemingly caught the perfect perp.

Exactly.

Bottom line, Lacy needed Karr to be the perp for a bucket load of reasons such as; the image of the big bad bogey man was real and he killed JBR, to put the case to bed once and for all and to possibly futher Lacy's political career. Karr was too good to be true, since when does the culprit of the most publicized murder fall into the lap of the authorities? THEY DON'T!! Lacy tried to pull the wool over the worlds eyes and failed.

:clap::clap::clap:

eileenhawkeye · Apr 17, 2012

Did Lacy really think that she would be able to put Karr away and say the case was solved? If Karr pleaded not guilty, the trial would be such a trainwreck. Once the information came out about his DNA not matching and him being in Alabama that Christmas....

BBB167893 · Apr 17, 2012

Maikai said:
Lacy was stuck between a rock and a hard place. Karr claimed he was involved in the death of JBR. Had she done nothing, she would have been criticized for that. I believe she was working with California authorities, who wanted him back in the US to prosecute him on *advertiser censored* charges but they lost the files.

There's no point in trying to defend the indefensible, Maikai. Mary Lacy had several options at her disposal, but like so many of the participants in this case, her EGO was more important that justice.

Lacy did the right thing when the touch DNA revealed it was not the Ramseys.

Oh, like hell! On BOTH of those assertions! Mary Lacy never did the right thing in her entire career as DA. I'm quite familiar with her record, from her drunk-driving son, to her insane pursuit of Boulder football players for a rape that never happened to how she mishandled the Midyette case...it goes on and on and on!

People like Mary Lacy have got no business in the justice system. Lucrezia Borgia could have done a better job! But, that's up to the Boulder voters and, as Alexis de Tocqueville said famously, "in a democracy you get the government you deserve."

They were persecuted by the Boulder Police--especially Steve Thomas.

Your idea of what constitutes persecution is not the same as mine! You call THAT persecution? :banghead:

Why he wasn't brought up on civil rights violations is a mystery to me.

No mystery as far as I can see. If he had done like Sheriff Wydell in "the Devil's Rejects" I might agree with you!

Now that you mention it, a few years ago, a poster very much like yourself suggested something along those lines. Specifically, they suggested that a Grand Jury be convened to look into supposed police misconduct in this case. Do you know what I said in response?

I said, "capital idea! But let's not stop there. Let's have them investigate the Boulder DA's office, the Haddon Law Firm and Lou Smit while they're at it!"

The subject was dropped IMMEDIATELY. And it should be pretty obvious as to WHY. But if it isn't, I'll spell it out for you.

The police did not have evidence to prosecute the Ramseys---easy for them to come up with their circumstantial case, but the DA's office were the ones that had to convict them.

I bolded that part, because, far as I'm concerned, THAT was the whole problem right there! The Boulder DA's office couldn't convict a bird of s****ing on a statue.

Even the Grand Jury was bogus...it was only done because the Governor requested it when Steve Thomas quit. It was a waste of money.

Now THAT is something we can agree on! It's clear that the DA did not want a Grand Jury in this case, likely for the same reason Nixon didn't want an investigation into Watergate.

There is plenty of expultory evidence when it comes to the Ramseys.

I don't know about that. But I DO know that there was never enough evidence to tell WHICH one did what.

As I've often pointed out, cases like this are not solved through forensic evidence. They are solved by arresting both parties, placing them in separate holding cells and seeing which one will sell out the other one. That is an absolutely STANDARD crime-solving technique that the greenest rookie walking a BEAT would know, and it WORKS! The police WANTED to do exactly that in this case, and the DA shot them down because of his twisted 1960's hippie values. Bottom line.

BBB167893 · Apr 17, 2012

Maikai said:
Several on the Grand Jury had scientific backgrounds.

Too bad they didn't have common sense backgrounds!

BBB167893 · Apr 17, 2012

Maikai said:
Everything I read was circumstantial.

Most of the cases tried today are circumstantial. What's your point?

The handwriting experts could be refuted by the defense...

The experts, maybe. (And that's being generous, considering that they felt the need to keep at least one expert out through, shall we say, underhanded means). But NOT the comparison charts!

then there was "Foster" who would have been torn apart by the defense.

That's not surprising, given how the DA's office did him dirt.

Lou Smit came up with several pieces of intruder evidence--

He sure did! Right out of thin air!

and then you have which one do you charge?

NOW you've got it!

I read some cases several years ago, where an arrest warrant was issued based on DNA. They didn't have a name---just the profile. I believe the reason was if there was ever a match, they could arrest the person on the spot.

I don't doubt that such a proceedure exists. It sounds like a good way to catch SOME crooks.

I would have liked to see that happen in the Ramsey case.

I'll bet.

Lacy was not a Ramsey lover in the beginning.

According to WHOM?? Because that assertion flies in the face of just about everybody who was actually there.

BBB167893 · Apr 17, 2012

Roy23 said:
You have the burden of proof, not IDI.

Well, isn't that just dandy?

Whatever the source of the DNA, it was found to be pertinent by The DA and Boulder LE.

Given WHO the DA in question is, I wouldn't be too happy about that. After all, the whole point of this thread is that she had no business being ON this case after the Karr debacle.

I know you guys don't want to believe it.

Pilgrim, it doesn't matter if we "believe" it or not. And while we're on the subject, ML seems to have the same problem that most IDIs have, thus the problems.

BBB167893 · Apr 17, 2012

Roy23 said:
UKGuy,

There is one particular point that I think you keep missing. IDI doesn't have to demonstrate anything.

Good thing, too, because so far you certainly haven't!

And seriously forget about me and what I think.

(SD raises an expectant eyebrow)

The State itself, the one's who can prove your RDI beliefs, either believe the Ramsey's are innocent or most likely innocent.

Did. From all accounts, the current man is slightly more intelligent.

So I would refrain from using the word ignorant at us IDI's so often.

Believe me, pilgrim, there are a LOT more words I plan to use!

But the word Ignorant seems kind of strong when the very people you put your hope in have changed their view, put DNA in the stringent Codis databank, etc.

Ignorant is a good word for those people, as well. And they're hopeless.

BBB167893 · Apr 17, 2012

Roy23 said:
IDI is a theory based on deductive reasoning.

Could have fooled me.

RDI took their shot and couldn't make it stick.

You say that, pilgrim, but it's just not true. RDI never TOOK a shot.

I realize all the RDI Boulder and Federal Gov't conspiricies, and how all the Ramsey wielded so much power theories have been spoken on.

Um, no. That's YOUR characterization; a way to avoid considering certain issues. Some of 'em ain't theories. I'd be happy to explain it to you.

The biggest thing though UK is that Boulder Govt in recent years have said some really important things. And you guys and gals ain't listening.

Now look who's talking about not listening to important things!

And one more thing, I don't have a problem with the DNA. RDI does. I hope they find who's it is. But you seem to think that is my problem. It's yours, trust me on that.

Experience has taught me that trust and IDI don't go together too well.

BBB167893 · Apr 17, 2012

Roy23 said:
So my assumptions are ignorant because I have the DA and Police Chief saying that finding the source of the DNA is the key to finding JBR's killer.

No, there are OTHER reasons.

Rather I should come up with my own theory like you have since obviously you and I know more than the investigators and prosecutors in this case.

Sounds like a plan! :grin: In all seriousness, depending on who you mean, it wouldn't take much to know more than them. Take Mary Lacy for instance. My GOLDFISH knows more than she does.

I am picturing you with your tin foil hat on reading articles and thinking you are learning.

I don't think you want to know what I'm picturing.

I know I should listen to you instead but I just can't help it.

Knowing you as I do, probably right on both counts. :grin:

BBB167893 · Apr 17, 2012

Agatha_C said:
I wear a coat hanger with tin foil on the ends of it when I read articles and post them, so whats the point? We shouldnt read and research? WTF is that? I need to go now an clear all the books and articles out of my house so my kids dont look stupid....

Best I can gather, it's his way of not confronting anything that would contradict his supposedly solid rationale.

Why was Karr so important to Lacy??

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