CO - James Holmes Trial Discussion - Begins April 27, 2015 #13

zoey · Jun 29, 2015

Larry Ryckman ‏@larryryckman · 3m3 minutes ago
Rich Orman begins cross-examination of Holland for the prosecution. #theatershooting

Maisiebelle · Jun 29, 2015

LyndyLoo said:
Actually this Expert has already mentioned it was lower end of dosing..So given JH's actually Personality disorder ( Schizotypal) that dose would NOT cause any side affects such as you are suggesting....He no doubt felt better ( likely needed it) but doesn't have anything to do with what he did July 2012!!

At least from my perspective...Those who had no psych issues..they would just become sedated and not give a care about anything...these drugs area often abused as well..thus have experienced OD's by family ( kids) picking them out of parent's medicine cabinet!! Scary indeed!!!

Thank you. So it's clear that he did need these drugs. I'm surprised he wasn't given them sooner. Why wait 4 months to prescribe him medication he obviously needed. Especially since Dr Woodcock decided JH was insane just 4 days after the shooting. Why no follow up? Very confusing. Unless I'm forgetting something and he was supposed to be on medication.

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zoey · Jun 29, 2015

Will C. Holden ‏@will_c_holden · 2m2 minutes ago
In #TheaterShooting DA cross, Holland says he saw no evidence of delusions in any session with Holmes, but says he wasn't only 1 who saw him

DeadCat · Jun 29, 2015

Maisiebelle said:
Thank you. So it's clear that he did need these drugs. I'm surprised he wasn't given them sooner. Why wait 4 months to prescribe him medication he obviously needed. Especially since Dr Woodcock decided JH was insane just 4 days after the shooting. Why no follow up? Very confusing. Unless I'm forgetting something and he was supposed to be on medication.

I think this is a very good question. Maybe he wasn't on any proper meds (was he on any?) because the Defense instructed Woodcock not to call someone back regarding treatment. Just appalling--first, that he didn't call them back and second, that no one follow-ed up....

LyndyLoo · Jun 29, 2015

Maisiebelle said:
Thank you. So it's clear that he did need these drugs. I'm surprised he wasn't given them sooner. Why wait 4 months to prescribe him medication he obviously needed. Especially since Dr Woodcock decided JH was insane just 4 days after the shooting. Why no follow up? Very confusing. Unless I'm forgetting something and he was supposed to be on medication.

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He was off all meds in Jail as of July..went untreated until his fall in November....BUT he was on meds prescribed by Fenton which JH said didn't work ( cure him) thus his hate for her..He wanted that Magic wand immediate affect..when not..BAM he pursued his thinking and planning and stopped preparing for his presentation/studying....He's nothing more than a seeker of immediate gratification..What a manipulative murdering Asshat!!

All above are of course IMO

zoey · Jun 29, 2015

Jen's Trial Diaries ‏@TrialDiariesJ · 2m2 minutes ago
JH's cat scans were normal despite him bashing his head around #theatershooting #theatertrial

zoey · Jun 29, 2015

Will C. Holden ‏@will_c_holden · 1m1 minute ago
In #TheaterShooting DA cross, Holland says he had no premorbid function data on Holmes (i.e. what he was like pre-Nov. 2012 psychotic break)

Maisiebelle · Jun 29, 2015

DeadCat said:
I think this is a very good question. Maybe he wasn't on any proper meds (was he on any?) because the Defense instructed Woodcock not to call someone back regarding treatment. Just appalling--first, that he didn't call them back and second, that no one follow-ed up....

LyndyLoo said:
He was off all meds in Jail as of July..went untreated until his fall in November....BUT he was on meds prescribed by Fenton which JH said didn't work ( cure him) thus his hate for her..He wanted that Magic wand immediate affect..when not..BAM he pursued his thinking and planning and stopped preparing for his presentation/studying....He's nothing more than a seeker of immediate gratification..What a manipulative murdering Asshat!!

All above are of course IMO

It would seem that this November episode does seem rather convenient. I know I've read (still not found the article) where the jail staff said he was a model prisoner up till November. It's almost like a lightbulb went off in his head and the enormity of his situation hit him. He realised that he needed to find a way to avoid the death penalty. Then came the bed fall/faeces smearing/head banging behaviours.

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LyndyLoo · Jun 29, 2015

LOL Me think's the jury believes this expert's testimony has NOTHING to do with Jh's Insanity on July 20th 2012..Thus no questions...LOL

I'mjazzed · Jun 29, 2015

Well.. So far, they have not proven to me that he was insane at the time of the shooting...

zoey · Jun 29, 2015

Larry Ryckman ‏@larryryckman · 2m2 minutes ago
Holland is stepping down from the stand. Judge calls 20-minute afternoon break for #theatershooting jurors

Jen's Trial Diaries ‏@TrialDiariesJ · 2m2 minutes ago
20 min break for #theatershooting trial

LyndyLoo · Jun 29, 2015

Maisiebelle said:
It would seem that this November episode does seem rather convenient. I know I've read (still not found the article) where the jail staff said he was a model prisoner up till November. It's almost like a lightbulb went off in his head and the enormity of his situation hit him. He realised that he needed to find a way to avoid the death penalty. Then came the bed fall/faeces smearing/head banging behaviours.

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It's called Defence manipulations...Maybe these def. attny's should be investigated as being manufacturing evidence that never would be IF NOT for their advice...Course I know it's difficult to prove..unless JH himself admits this November episode was suggested by them!!

zoey · Jun 29, 2015

I have got to go get some things done ---- I'll check in on my kindle--but can't do tweets....:blushing:

DeadCat · Jun 29, 2015

I don't know why some people on here are having such a hard time believing that JH could have had a real psychotic episode in November. I think the evidence has shown he had pretty severe issues with social anxiety and was suffering from possibly other mental issues. It runs in his family. It doesn't seem like a stretch to me to think that the stress of solitary confinement, lack of proper treatment and medication, and the weight of the crimes and possible punishment could push someone who already had compromised thinking into a psychotic episode. In fact, to me it almost seems likely.

That said, whether he was legally insane in July is a whole other case.

Maisiebelle · Jun 29, 2015

DeadCat said:
I don't know why some people on here are having such a hard time believing that JH could have had a real psychotic episode in November. I think the evidence has shown he had pretty severe issues with social anxiety and was suffering from possibly other mental issues. It runs in his family. It doesn't seem like a stretch to me to think that the stress of solitary confinement, lack of proper treatment and medication, and the weight of the crimes and possible punishment could push someone who already had compromised thinking into a psychotic episode. In fact, to me it almost seems likely.

That said, whether he was legally insane in July is a whole other case.

I have talked about whether JH should have been medicated right from his arrest. I don't think it's impossible that the episode in November was genuine.

I just think the cynic in me is wondering whether it could have been a ploy to get ready for an insanity defence.

I also don't doubt he had mental health issues. I'm just not convinced that he was insane when he carried out the shooting.

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LyndyLoo · Jun 29, 2015

DeadCat said:
I don't know why some people on here are having such a hard time believing that JH could have had a real psychotic episode in November. I think the evidence has shown he had pretty severe issues with social anxiety and was suffering from possibly other mental issues. It runs in his family. It doesn't seem like a stretch to me to think that the stress of solitary confinement, lack of proper treatment and medication, and the weight of the crimes and possible punishment could push someone who already had compromised thinking into a psychotic episode. In fact, to me it almost seems likely.

That said, whether he was legally insane in July is a whole other case.

No one here is suggesting anything of the sort..However..his symptoms were self induced with K ( Potassium) and other electrolyte levels..can be totally explained by his starvations...and NO ONE is suggesting he isn't mentally ill...However, the November episode and testimony has nothing to do with his Insanity back in July 2012...

JH is indeed Mentally ill..No one disputes that at all..But after 4 months in jail and having difficulty having anyone deem him "Insane" except for the one Dr. Woodcock..who saw/interviewed him for a few hours without even talking to family nor other physician experts kind of tells the tale.

It's the defence that has created such suspicions..of malingering...and JH himself creating some sort of cover with his notebook..BUT Colorado has a very clear definition of Insanity and once JH was advised..HE doesn't qualify leads some to view his November episode as contrived/self induced..He was on no Psych meds by then as well.

ahotch2 · Jun 29, 2015

I'mjazzed said:
Well.. So far, they have not proven to me that he was insane at the time of the shooting...

I could be wrong but I believe it's up to the prosecution to prove he was sane. So all the defense needs to do is raise reasonable doubt that he was sane.

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Maisiebelle · Jun 29, 2015

ahotch2 said:
I could be wrong but I believe it's up to the prosecution to prove he was sane. So all the defense needs to do is raise reasonable doubt that he was sane.

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You are correct and I believe the prosecution have proved their case very well.

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I'mjazzed · Jun 29, 2015

ahotch2 said:
I could be wrong but I believe it's up to the prosecution to prove he was sane. So all the defense needs to do is raise reasonable doubt that he was sane.

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Yes.. you are right. So.. I'll adjust my statement.. they have not raised reasonable doubt within me personally.. I'm not on the jury so.. don't know what its worth but... If I were......
MOO

They have not

Maisiebelle · Jun 29, 2015

I really don't like Miss Higgs. What's with this 'cute' behaviour?!

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CO - James Holmes Trial Discussion - Begins April 27, 2015 #13

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