Stranger Abduction Theories #2

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Billylee said:
I wonder if the dogs found any scent of Kyron at all. Wouldn't they have followed a scent trail if he walked anywhere out to the parking lot? If the dogs found nothing outside the school of Kyron, then he must have been murdered or drugged unconscious inside the school and put into some sort of container, then removed from the school whenever, could have been at any time from 8:45 to 3:30. There were a lot of parents removing projects that day to their cars. There also would have been your normal delivery/pick up people. There was mowing going on of the field, was there other landscaping going on that day? What do they do with their clippings? I wish I knew whether or not the dogs found ANYTHING at all.
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BillyLee,
IIRC, scenthounds were taken into Skyline,but they did not get any "hits" at all... I seem to remember that it was a while afyter Kyron disappeared ( not the next day,for example). If the floors,say,had been mopped with disinfectant it could well have thrown the dogs off... I do not know if cadaver dogs were ever used,either in the school,outside the school,or in the Horman's home...

ETA :
The fact that the dogs got no "hits" at all inside the school made me wonder if Kyron was ever in the school...that was about the end of the first week after he disappeared. Of course he was there,though...
 
Don't know where to put this, but Kaine was on JVM tonight and he is still saying Kyron is alive and out there. Transcript isn't posted yet.
 
Let me apologize first of all if this is a lengthy post, I have a feeling it will be. I follow a few cases on WS and this one scares me for many reasons. I agree that TH has behaved horribly since kyron has gone missing but I still have doubts of her guilt.

Im reminded of an incident that occurred in a library close by to me. I was horrified because it was so bold. A little boy (7ish iirc) was raped in the middle of the library while his mother was on a computer a few feet away. The librarian thought he looked like a creep and looked up RSOs and saw his pic. By the time she figured it out the boy had already been raped but thankfully this guy was caught. My point is-these people are sick and though they don't want to be caught they are often caught because they take risk. SA is absolutely plausible in my eyes.

There are so many great post on this thread and just a few things I want to throw in my 2 cents about. The white truck, every town has a vehicle that there are too many of. In mine it's green mini-vans. I ignore friends and wave to strangers all the time because I can never tell if it's them or not. Also I'm admittedly self involved and I couldnt tell you who I see at any school functions unless I speak with them directly. I'm too worried about me and my own little world where my kids matter more than anyone else to really care to notice anyone unless I need to. And the thing that irks me the most about this, if TH is that smart to come up with this plan then she must've been hit in the head planning the 2nd half of the day with her "long drive". She would've came up with something better than that if it wasn't true. There are too many things that make me
believe somewhere there is someone very pleased that TH is a hot mess and an easy suspect...IMO of course.
 
http://southeastportland.katu.com/content/green-van-sought-connection-abduction-attempt
PORTLAND, Ore. - Police are on the lookout for a green van they believe was involved in the attempted abduction of an 8-year-old boy.
According to police, someone in a van allegedly tried to grab a young boy while he was walking near the intersection of Southeast Gladstone Street and Gladstone Drive, which is near Southeast 151st at the base of Powell Butte.
 
http://www.flashalertportland.net/press-releases.html



Portland Police Investigate Attempted Abduction in SE
Portland Police Bureau - 12/03/10 This afternoon, Friday December 3, 2010 at approximately 12:52 p.m., Portland Police officers responded to the area of Southeast Gladstone Street and Gladstone Drive on the report of an attempted abduction. Officers arrived in the area and contacted the victim, an 8-year-old boy. The victim told police that he was walking to a friend's house when he was approached on the corner of Southeast Gladstone Street and Gladstone Drive by a van traveling west on Southeast Gladstone Drive. The victim told police that the van pulled up alongside him and that a subject inside opened the sliding door and asked the victim if he wanted to get inside. The victim told police that he refused and that the suspect reached out and tried to grab him. The victim told police that he ran away to a friend's house in the area then went home where his mother called 9-1-1.

The victim described the suspect vehicle as a dark green full size "work" van with the sliding door on the driver's side.

The driver was described as a male in a dark ski mask, dark clothes, possibly with hazel eyes.

The person who tried to grab the victim was described as a white male in his 30's-40's, medium build, light colored hair, a 2" or longer goatee, dark clothing, and possibly hazel eyes.

The victim told police there was also a female in the van described as a blonde in her 30's, a thin build, possibly a tattoo on one of her upper arms, and dark clothing.

Officers searched the neighborhood for any similar vehicles but did not locate anything that matched the description.

Anyone with information about this incident or this vehicle is urged to call Portland Police.
 
miabellamoure said:
I for one do not subscribe to the theory that how Kyron left school that day went UNSEEN...it just hasn't been released to those who ponder SA theories & the rest of us.

How Kyron exited the school and left that day IS known (imo) and I am going to even go so far as to theorize that LE knows this information as well. At least one witness and LE know of this piece of information.

However, just that one piece does not a case make...strong enough to arrest & indict for the justice (I believe) LE seeks of Kyron's perpetrator.

I think a SA would be so much easier of a horror to swallow than the one I do subscribe to...that Kyron's stepmother who was entrusted to care & love this child...failed him.
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I'm with you on the part about how Kyron exited the school.
I also feel that Kyron was by that truck, after the time that Terri said she left him in the hallway.
I also think that LE knows this.
What's missing, I think, is no one saw her drive away from the school with him, but no one ever saw him after that, hence Terri being named the last known person to have seen Kyron.
Kaine and Desiree saying Terri kept changing her story, this could be one of them. "Oh yeah, Kyron was out at the truck, he forgot something and went back in the school, I forgot that happened."
LE still has to prove Terri left the school with Kyron.
 
carbuff said:
I don't think so -- this guy is described as (and looks) Hispanic while the other guy is described as white. But it's good to keep track of all of them.
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And lighter hair.
 
LMax said:
http://southeastportland.katu.com/content/green-van-sought-connection-abduction-attempt
PORTLAND, Ore. - Police are on the lookout for a green van they believe was involved in the attempted abduction of an 8-year-old boy.
According to police, someone in a van allegedly tried to grab a young boy while he was walking near the intersection of Southeast Gladstone Street and Gladstone Drive, which is near Southeast 151st at the base of Powell Butte.
Click to expand...
May I please ask do they have a sketch of these people(The man and woman) on this recent abduction attempt yet?
 
Billylee said:
I wonder if the dogs found any scent of Kyron at all. Wouldn't they have followed a scent trail if he walked anywhere out to the parking lot? If the dogs found nothing outside the school of Kyron, then he must have been murdered or drugged unconscious inside the school and put into some sort of container, then removed from the school whenever, could have been at any time from 8:45 to 3:30. There were a lot of parents removing projects that day to their cars. There also would have been your normal delivery/pick up people. There was mowing going on of the field, was there other landscaping going on that day? What do they do with their clippings? I wish I knew whether or not the dogs found ANYTHING at all.
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BBM

When a well trained dog hits on a scent, you can be sure there is scent in that location. But when a well trained dog does not hit on a scent, then all you know is that particular dog did not find scent. It doesn't mean that the person was not there, it just means that due to environmental conditions, they did not leave enough scent for a well trained dog to indicate.

There are a variety of things that can keep a dog from indicating scent, including things like poor weather conditions, scent washed away (various chemicals, including bleach, destroy scent very quickly), target person was one of those people who just doesn't leave much scent as they go around, etc.

So, for instance, I wouldn't expect a dog to indicate inside the school because linoleum is a lousy surface to track on and it's probable that the halls were mopped at least once before the end of the day. Sanitizer solutions are notorious for destroying scent and I would imagine that whatever cleaning products they used on the floor in the school included sanitizers.

It would be interesting to know whether any of the dogs hit inside or around the school early on. If there was a lack of a hit, though, nothing can legitimately be inferred from it.
 
ami said:
Well the dogs better have found Kyron's scent in the parking lot between school and place Terri parked, because that is how he arrived there that day. My guess is that even if the dogs hit on a scent between the school and the place Terri parked, it could as easily have been the path he took to go in as the one he took to come back out. His scent should also have been all over the school, the playground, possibly the soccer field and probably close to several entrance/exit doors as well - the ones he took to recess, the one they exited to get out to the school bus or come in from the school bus if it was a different door than the one you'd come in if your mom drove you... .etc.
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BBM

Respectfully, a well trained dog might not pick up Kyron's scent in the parking lot, even though it is known he was there.

Parking lots are actually poor places for scent because there is usually no vegetation to hold the scent and if there are lots of vehicles, particularly passenger cars, in and out, they can cook the scent beyond recognition. Exhaust fumes can also temporarily suppress a dog's sense of smell.

Eight plus hours after the fact, in a parking lot known to have been busy that day, I would not expect a well trained dog to find any scent.

I would actually be suspicious that if a trailing dog indicated in the parking lot that it might be a case of the handler inadvertently cueing the dog rather than the dog actually independently finding scent.

I would also be surprised if a dog hit on scent in the school hallways. Linoleum is a terrible surface for scent and there were lots of people walking up and down those halls. Plus, if the halls had been mopped, most sanitizers kill off scent very efficiently.

Kyron wasn't reported missing for a significant length of time after the students left for the day. I'd think that period right after the kids leave is when much of the custodial work is done.
 
carbuff said:
Yes, good point. I agree most people would assume an angry screaming child being marched out of a public place with an adult was a misbehaving child being removed for disciplinary reasons -- and at least 999 times out of a thousand, they're going to be right. Something has to be really out of the ordinary before people notice it.
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Considering the incidence of stranger abductions from public places, the odds are literally millions to one that a screaming child is being abducted versus about to have a time-out.

I disagree about the difference gender might play. A man who was appropriately dressed and gave off the right body language would be assumed to be an involved father.

It takes a LOT of weirdness to arouse suspicion.

For instance, Brian Mitchell was far from normal in appearance--he had that long scraggly beard, he wore robes and was often singing or ranting to himself in public. You'd think there was no way anyone would not notice him and yet, there it was. For nine months, he and Wanda Barzee hid Elizabeth Smart in plain sight.

Yes, the presence of Wanda Barzee may have made a difference but there were times when Mitchell left her behind and took Smart with him and no one really suspected.
 
Ms Suzanne said:
May I please ask do they have a sketch of these people(The man and woman) on this recent abduction attempt yet?
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I checked this morning and haven't seen a sketch yet.
 
GrainneDhu said:
BBM

Respectfully, a well trained dog might not pick up Kyron's scent in the parking lot, even though it is known he was there.

Parking lots are actually poor places for scent because there is usually no vegetation to hold the scent and if there are lots of vehicles, particularly passenger cars, in and out, they can cook the scent beyond recognition. Exhaust fumes can also temporarily suppress a dog's sense of smell.

Eight plus hours after the fact, in a parking lot known to have been busy that day, I would not expect a well trained dog to find any scent.

I would actually be suspicious that if a trailing dog indicated in the parking lot that it might be a case of the handler inadvertently cueing the dog rather than the dog actually independently finding scent.

I would also be surprised if a dog hit on scent in the school hallways. Linoleum is a terrible surface for scent and there were lots of people walking up and down those halls. Plus, if the halls had been mopped, most sanitizers kill off scent very efficiently.

Kyron wasn't reported missing for a significant length of time after the students left for the day. I'd think that period right after the kids leave is when much of the custodial work is done.
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Okay, cool. I thought they brought dogs in to search the day Kyron was abducted.
 
The van attempt:
The person who tried to grab the victim was described as a white male in his 30's-40's, medium build, light colored hair, a 2" or longer goatee, dark clothing, and possibly hazel eyes.
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The playground attempt:
The suspect is described as a white male in his 30s, about 5-foot-8 and 130 to 150 pounds with a slight build. He had short light-colored hair and a goatee.
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Oh my gosh that's so terrifying! How many sick people are after children right now? I'm so scared for these kids! I'm scared for my own child and can't help but put her face on so many of these attempted abductions, it just makes me sick.
 
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