Kyron's General Discussion Thread for 2012-13

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I have a grandson just Kyron's age. I used to live in Portland. It still haunts me; that good dear little boy and what he had to put up with. This case has broken so many people's hearts. Now there are so many little children missing and no one seems to be held responsible. I know the police work hard to get the perpetrators of these crimes, but so many seem to end up like Kyron's: we are pretty sure who committed the crime but the person remains free. I don't get it. I will never get it. I feel so badly for Kyron's mom. I hope she knows how many people her little son touched in his brief life.
 
Sad to see this has been moved to "missing but not forgotten".
 
If Terri is innocent, then LE definitely had major tunnel vision. There are a lot of cases where there's a main suspect(s) but it's usually acknowledged that maybe someone else was involved. Even with the Anthony case, you have the George theory. Even if it's portrayed as being a wacky theory, it's at least brought up. But if you watch anything about this case on TV, the only possibility discussed is that Terri kidnapped Kyron.

Another reason I think this case is pretty unusual is that you normally don't have the parents of a missing child accusing someone else in the media without that person being arrested. I've seen a lot of criticism of Desire and Kaine for that, and I think it's because people aren't used to that. If it was just the media implying that Terri is guilty, we would just go along with it, but when you have two people on TV who keep saying that someone is guilty, even though it's been two years and she hasn't been arrested, it bothers some viewers.

As far as we know, LE was following the only evidence that existed. If all that evidence pointed to TMH, what were they supposed to do - create a fake "second suspect"?

LE had maps, timelines, interviews and even the mock up of the school parking lot that showed which cars were parked where at specific times. If they had no evidence of someone other than TMH with access to the school and Kyron ... then (serious question) how could they possibly satisfy the public's need for an alternate abductor without creating fake evidence?

I don't care (and I'm positive Kaine and Desiree don't care) that "some viewers" are "bothered" that they've explained the evidence told to them by LE and their own gut instincts openly and honestly to the public, and the evidence + instinct point to someone who did not leave enough evidence to be prosecuted in court. It happens. Sadly we all know it happens. Sometimes killers don't leave enough evidence to get themselves convicted. Dumb luck, planning, or the nature of the crime itself.

I think most folks here watch cold case files type shows... Investigation Discovery, things like that. How many of them include an older, retired police officer saying, "We always knew it was this guy who was the murderer, but until now (10 or 15 years later) we didn't have enough evidence to convict him." ?? MANY. Many.

I don't feel Kaine and Desiree are under any obligation as parents of a missing, possibly murdered child to hold their tongues when it comes to discussing the things they've been okayed to discuss by LE, or their own deep gut feelings. Yes it might bother some bystanders and curious outsiders - but anything anyone does that's newsworthy will bother some subsection of society and so in the end I believe they should keep shouting at the top of their lungs and do what they feel to be right for Kyron.
 
As far as we know, LE was following the only evidence that existed.

BBM...I think this is what bugs some people. It bugs me. LE was so closed mouthed that I don't think we have the slightest inkling what they know.

I'm not saying Terri is innocent. I have absolutely no gut feeling one way or the other. But it really does bother me that they focused so quickly and sharply on Terri and still couldn't come up with more. She's clearly not that bright.

My cousin who is in LE assured me that they were doing the right thing by keeping it quiet; I wonder if they still feel that way 2 years down the road.
 
BBM...I think this is what bugs some people. It bugs me. LE was so closed mouthed that I don't think we have the slightest inkling what they know.

I'm not saying Terri is innocent. I have absolutely no gut feeling one way or the other. But it really does bother me that they focused so quickly and sharply on Terri and still couldn't come up with more. She's clearly not that bright.

My cousin who is in LE assured me that they were doing the right thing by keeping it quiet; I wonder if they still feel that way 2 years down the road.

It bothers me that they keep quiet from a human, caring standpoint - because I'm invested in Kyron emotionally by now, I'd like to know everything they know about his disappearance. But from a practical standpoint I know that this is how things work, and they have practical reasons for the things they withhold.

Also, I'm not sure what it would gain the case to have explained all their evidence to the public. As far as a strategy for finding Kyron goes, would putting all the evidence on the table through the media have helped locate him or his remains? I honestly don't know the answer to that question myself. But I do understand how they continued to believe they were getting real information from people (the searches in specific areas they said were targeted and based on leads) and since it appeared they were looking for remains during those land searches, they must have evaluated the risk of someone being able to move the body or the evidence before search teams could be gathered.

They focused on Terri because the things she did and said were suspicious, and because (apparently, but I do believe) she wrote things in her emails before he disappeared that made her appear to have motive for harming him. I honestly don't think LE stopped following other leads to chase her. I don't. They were following their strongest lead.

I also don't see Terri as a bright person, but no-body family crimes are often left to founder, because most of the typical evidence left behind is completely normal in a family car, or in the house, or the clothes, etc. If Terri did take Kyron and do something to him, and if he lost hair and skin cells or dropped a pokemon card or lost a sock as he was put into the truck - it's not evidence of a crime. If Terri were a stranger, those same things would fry her in court. She was supposed to be at school with him, he was supposed to be seen with her, his stuff is supposed to be in the home and cars and on Terri herself (hair, fiber, etc). That's why the no-body within-family crimes take MORE than your average criminal stupidity. Most of the best evidence is disqualified before they even start. She would have to have gone above and beyond the call of stupidity to do something that created an extra level of evidence beyond what is normally used to convict.

Essentially I think they'd have to find his remains (if deceased) and find them in a place someone could put Terri as well that morning (and I think that's what the searches were about), or with something that could only have belonged to Terri (can't even think what that would be).

Or they would have to find the person she paid to take Kyron away (or kill him), and have that person willing to admit to being a kidnapper/murderer but also appear honest enough to convince LE and ultimately a jury that aside from being capable of stealing and killing children, they were nevertheless honest enough to point to Terri truthfully.

Or she would have to confess.

Anyway... all of that is to say that Terri is a very dim bulb, but she would have to have been even more than just ordinary stupid to have left the only type of evidence that would point to her. If that makes sense
 
Wow. This forum has moved.


I so desperately want Kyron to be found, and for Desiree to have peace.
 
I heard one staggering statistic
that really sums it up for me...
some 250 KNOWN Serial Killers
driving coast to coast as long haul truckers
and the FBI is aware but cannot convict.
so that is 250 open cases regarding only one type of criminal...
there are tens of thousands in the same line of work
with varying degrees of criminal culpability
roaming the landscape.
that is very very scary.

I just wanted to clarify what you meant here. The 250 number refers to open cases, not serial killers. By definition, there would be more victims and cases attributed to serial killers than there are serial killers themselves. The FBI does have a highway serial killer initiative, which they began in order to help jurisdictions track and connect crimes that occur in widely dispersed geographical locations.

Certainly long haul truckers have the potential to commit this type of crime, but there aren't 250 known truck driver serial killers, as I understand it. In fact, the estimates for serial killers nationwide is "only" 35 - 50, although some think it could be as high as 100.

Here's a write up on The Highway Serial Killer Initiative:
http://articles.latimes.com/2009/apr/05/local/me-serialkillers5/2

And here's another discussing estimates of total serial killers nation wide:
http://dianedimond.net/americas-serial-killers-how-many/#more-4942
 
I would really be happy if something happen soon and Kyron would be found.
 
Do the locals hear people talking much about this anymore?
 
This is all strictly my opinion only...

I don't want Terri to be the one who did this to Kyron. It kills me to imagine that someone that little boy trusted could harm him and destroy his family so. However, when you look at ALL the pieces together, it's hard to believe that Terri doesn't bear responsibility for this. The lie detector tests, the refusal to cooperate, those darned text messages, the affair with M. Cooke (and its timing), the odd story about driving around on back roads, the apparent attempt to deflect blame to the teacher, ALL of it, it's hard to discount the possibility that she is responsible in some way. I know that people will pick apart the above points and sure there might be explanations for those on an individual basis, but when you look at the whole picture, something isn't right. I'm sorry, but what kind of person can go around having an affair and texting explicit BS like she did when her own stepson who she'd helped raise since infancy is MISSING?? One who doesn't care, that's who. And we at WS follow cases, so the majority of us know that one of the first things that causes LE's hinky meters to go off is odd behavior in the people closest the the victim. I do hope that LE explored all other avenues thoroughly so as to leave no stone unturned...but my own hinky meter hasn't stopped going haywire when it comes to Terri Moulton Horman.

Kyron, there is not a day that passes that I don't think of you and pray for you to be found and for peace for your family.
 
Donjeta, I don't post my imaginary scenarios of how crimes could work out - because I don't want to give anyone any ideas, but I think all of us here sometimes come up with things that would WORK in a murder. This scenario is about the worst thing I've ever heard. Show up with the child, in a place where there is typically a lot of vigilant security and watchful eyes, and do it on a day where lots of people who know you will be milling around with cameras, and then kidnap the child right before their very eyes.

It just is so COMPLETELY illogical to me, as an active PTA mom myself, to imagine in my wildest dreams I could enter a school with my child and EXIT with him again as school was starting and no one would notice, on a day when lots of parents were there to socialize and take photos. That she did make it out of the school with no one noticing her really kind of defies logic and defies my experience with schools. I don't think for a minute I could achieve that, with NO ONE saying they saw me leave the school as school was beginning. Especially if I planned to remove my child with me - that's the double whammy - I think the odds approach zero I could walk out of the school and into my car with my school age child at the start of the day. I would be seen, and remembered. For her to gamble on being able to do that - and having it work out - defy the odds. Doesn't make for a good game plan.

It doesn't seem to me that criminals always have a good game plan. Sometimes they just get lucky. We know someone did get Kyron out of that school unseen so arguing that it would be impossible for Terri alone doesn't really cut it for me.

Someone who knows the premises could come up with a plan. A parent wouldn't have had to walk out of the school hand in hand with the child, she could have told Kyron to meet her outside if the exits weren't properly monitored, which they don't appear to have been.

Anyway, I don't know that no one noticed her acting odd. Maybe someone did and that's why they seem to be focused on her as the perp.
 
It doesn't seem to me that criminals always have a good game plan. Sometimes they just get lucky. We know someone did get Kyron out of that school unseen so arguing that it would be impossible for Terri alone doesn't really cut it for me.

Someone who knows the premises could come up with a plan. A parent wouldn't have had to walk out of the school hand in hand with the child, she could have told Kyron to meet her outside if the exits weren't properly monitored, which they don't appear to have been.

Anyway, I don't know that no one noticed her acting odd. Maybe someone did and that's why they seem to be focused on her as the perp.

I totally agree. It would cause far less of a fuss and be far less memorable to see Kyron with his stepmom, or Kyron getting into his family truck, than it would be for him to be exiting with a stranger and getting into a strange car.

What sticks in my mind is how focused LE was on the parking lot, spaces, times, which cars were in which slot and what the people nearby saw --- quickly followed by Terri's pic on posters with a description of the white truck. I suspect someone saw something, but it's only because of the timing and focus just then.
 
Seeing the posters about the truck cinched it for me, even though I though Terri looked completely hinky at the first presser. And the way Desiree clammed up when Terri hugged her spoke VOLUMES to me.

But that poster is what sealed the deal in my mind.
 
I don't know if any lawyers have visited the Kyron thread in a while, but I'm really curious about this:

If this was considered a cold case by LE, would Terri lose the protection she had in the divorce case that allowed the delay? Because wasn't the delay for her participation in the "ongoing criminal investigation"? So just wondering if the case had "cold case" status, if it would still be considered an "ongoing criminal investigation".
 
The sexting thing wasn't a really good game plan either imo.
 
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