A problem with a common IDI theory

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eileenhawkeye

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A very common IDI theory is that an unknown intruder came into JonBenet's bedroom, stunned her, brought her down in the basement, and while he was attempting to remove her from the house, she screamed, which made him panic and he ended up murdering her right there. Now, most IDI's believe that JonBenet was strangulated first, and then the head bash.

If the intruder panicked after JonBenet screamed, why would he start strangling her first? That isn't a quick way to murder someone, and if he really wanted to get the heck out of there, it just doesn't make sense.
 
IF it was an intruder JB was killed because the intruder had some unfinished business with JR.J.Douglas said it and ITA.The RN didn't even mention her name,this wasn't about her.This was revenge,overkill.
But all this is speculation cause IDI's first have to prove that someone else was there that night.
First prove there was an intruder and THEN we can try to find out who it was and why he did it,I am in.
 
madeleine said:
IF it was an intruder JB was killed because the intruder had some unfinished business with JR.J.Douglas said it and ITA.The RN didn't even mention her name,this wasn't about her.This was revenge,overkill.
But all this is speculation cause IDI's first have to prove that someone else was there that night.
First prove there was an intruder and THEN we can try to find out who it was and why he did it,I am in.
Click to expand...

Good points about revenge and they didn't mention JBR's name...I don't think they knew it...but they said John several times. There is proof on an intruder---they have his DNA---they just don't have the name connected with it (yet).
 
that DNA ALONE doesn't prove that an intruder killed JB.

even if there was a person (unknown to us) in that house at the night of the murder,until you know who that person is,how do you know he's NOT related to the family somehow?
another thing,even if there was someone else in that house that night,how do you know he wasn't there for other reasons,like help cleaning up the crime scene?(why are the Ramsey phone records missing?)
even if IDI,how do you know how many they were and how can you be sure it was HIM (the dna owner) who killed her and not his accomplice/accomplices?

it's a lonnnnng way until you can call this DNA owner an intruder or JB's killer...

let's assume the R's are totally innocent......until you got a match,how do you know he was an intruder(stranger) and not an old friend,enemy,etc?I doubt that they tested ALL the people the Ramsey's KNEW.
 
madeleine said:
that DNA ALONE doesn't prove that an intruder killed JB.

even if there was a person (unknown to us) in that house at the night of the murder,until you know who that person is,how do you know he's NOT related to the family somehow?
another thing,even if there was someone else in that house that night,how do you know he wasn't there for other reasons,like help cleaning up the crime scene?(why are the Ramsey phone records missing?)
even if IDI,how do you know how many they were and how can you be sure it was HIM (the dna owner) who killed her and not his accomplice/accomplices?

it's a lonnnnng way until you can call this DNA owner an intruder or JB's killer...

let's assume the R's are totally innocent......until you got a match,how do you know he was an intruder(stranger) and not an old friend,enemy,etc?I doubt that they tested ALL the people the Ramsey's KNEW.
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When they say, "intruder" they are referring to anyone who's last name isn't Ramsey. Most IDI's don't seem to think a complete stranger was responsible for JonBenet's murder and most of them have a few friends/acquaintances/co-workers/enemies of the Ramseys that they suspect.

The problem with the DNA is that it was only found under JonBenet's fingernails and on her longjohns. This touch DNA should have been found on the garrote and all over JonBenet's body. With the DNA just in two places, it becomes plausible that JonBenet might have touched something with unknown DNA with her hand, the DNA went into her fingernails, and then she touched her longjohns. Didn't Patsy say in an interview that she didn't know the last time JBR had taken a bath? On 12/25, JonBenet went to the White's house and on 12/24, she went to her friend Megan's house. The touch DNA could have originated from either one of those two places.
 
eileenhawkeye said:
A very common IDI theory is that an unknown intruder came into JonBenet's bedroom, stunned her, brought her down in the basement, and while he was attempting to remove her from the house, she screamed, which made him panic and he ended up murdering her right there. Now, most IDI's believe that JonBenet was strangulated first, and then the head bash.

If the intruder panicked after JonBenet screamed, why would he start strangling her first? That isn't a quick way to murder someone, and if he really wanted to get the heck out of there, it just doesn't make sense.
Click to expand...

That's only one of MANY problems!
 
We know that nobody came in the basement window that night, so there was no reason for the "intruder" to take JBR into the basement in order to remove her from the house.

Even if the "intruder" came into the house through the basement window (Which we know didn't happen) it would have been a very difficult way to remove a live 6 year old from the house. More likely he'd have used a door on the ground floor of the house.

But let's play along - he takes a struggling 6 year old into the basement in order to stuff her through a basement window - was he going to stuff her through first? In which case she may have run away screaming. Or, was he going to pull her through behind him? Which means he'd have had to hold on to her while getting himself through the window, otherwise she could run back upstairs.

To me these are bigger problems than strangulation coming first.

There is also another problem - if he bashed her head first, why bother to strangle her? If he needed to get out quick, he was using up time. The head bash would have silenced her, though perhaps he couldn't be sure she'd die.

Also I wonder how much noise the head bash would have made?
 
to me the kidnapping gone wrong is as ridiculous as the PDI/bedwetting one.

if someone wanted to kidnap JB for money,why not grab her when she was alone,outside playing or something,why did they chose the most risky way to do it,from her home while her parents were upstairs sleeping.
another problem,you'd think this kind of thing has to be done very quickly,get in,grab the child,get out.who would waste time with writing the RN in the child's home.absurd.
what went that wrong in this "kidnapping gone wrong" scenario anyway?okay,she screams,you wanna shut her up.maybe he bashes her head,what about the strangulation (which obviously took some time,looking for rope,finding a tool/paintbrush,making the garrote) and sexual assault then?the kidnapper suddenly decided that he's in a playful mood?knowing that he left the RN on the stairs and a parent could wake up and read it?
let's not forget about the ransom amount,it's weird,to me it rather sends a message.why ask for 118.000 if you can ask for 1 mil.why 118.000 and not 200.000.
 
madeleine said:
to me the kidnapping gone wrong is as ridiculous as the PDI/bedwetting one.

if someone wanted to kidnap JB for money,why not grab her when she was alone,outside playing or something,why did they chose the most risky way to do it,from her home while her parents were upstairs sleeping.
another problem,you'd think this kind of thing has to be done very quickly,get in,grab the child,get out.who would waste time with writing the RN in the child's home.absurd.
what went that wrong in this "kidnapping gone wrong" scenario anyway?okay,she screams,you wanna shut her up.maybe he bashes her head,what about the strangulation (which obviously took some time,looking for rope,finding a tool/paintbrush,making the garrote) and sexual assault then?the kidnapper suddenly decided that he's in a playful mood?knowing that he left the RN on the stairs and a parent could wake up and read it?
let's not forget about the ransom amount,it's weird,to me it rather sends a message.why ask for 118.000 if you can ask for 1 mil.why 118.000 and not 200.000.
Click to expand...

madeleine,
Just have to agree with much of what you say. In this case there are many odd things. The ransom amount is one of them. One explanation might be that there was a change of plan, but the ransom note had already been penned , so they left that amount in there. I'm assuming there were only two chanels to that information: the Ramsey household and access graphics. So someone in the latter was to be blamed for JonBenet's abduction. Or maybe it was simply a deliberate red herring. Much like Jonbenet's tombstone?



.
 
But, in order to consider that an IDI is guilty, you need to first explain away the evidence that points strongly, to it being someone within the RDI camp. This is more than, but not exclusive to, the fiber evidence on JonBenets body and in the 'garrote'.
 
eileenhawkeye said:
A very common IDI theory is that an unknown intruder came into JonBenet's bedroom, stunned her, brought her down in the basement, and while he was attempting to remove her from the house, she screamed, which made him panic and he ended up murdering her right there. Now, most IDI's believe that JonBenet was strangulated first, and then the head bash.

If the intruder panicked after JonBenet screamed, why would he start strangling her first? That isn't a quick way to murder someone, and if he really wanted to get the heck out of there, it just doesn't make sense.
Click to expand...

if an intruder came into the house, into JB´s bedroom,brought her downstairs ,and wanted to remove her from the house...when did he write the RN? why did he suddenly start erotic playing with her?,did the garrote strangulation ?and left the RN on the stairs as he had plenty of time to do that scene and forgot to take the note?... if he only wanted to sexual assault her in the house and then leave, what the RN for? thats why I think the R´s wrote that note and I don´t think her brother has been molesting nor killed her accidentally, it is quite difficult for a child to hide such a crime
 
DIRK SCHILLER said:
if an intruder came into the house, into JB´s bedroom,brought her downstairs ,and wanted to remove her from the house...when did he write the RN? why did he suddenly start erotic playing with her?,did the garrote strangulation ?and left the RN on the stairs as he had plenty of time to do that scene and forgot to take the note?... if he only wanted to sexual assault her in the house and then leave, what the RN for? thats why I think the R´s wrote that note and I don´t think her brother has been molesting nor killed her accidentally, it is quite difficult for a child to hide such a crime
Click to expand...

The child wouldn't have to hide the crime if the parent's hide it for him.
 
Another question I have is: Why didn't the intruder just leave through the front door? Why bother going all the way to the basement? If a stun gun was used on JonBenet, wouldn't the intruder want to exit the house ASAP before JonBenet woke up?
 
eileenhawkeye said:
Another question I have is: Why didn't the intruder just leave through the front door? Why bother going all the way to the basement? If a stun gun was used on JonBenet, wouldn't the intruder want to exit the house ASAP before JonBenet woke up?
Click to expand...

I've tried asking them that, eileen. But it gets me nowhere!
 
eileenhawkeye said:
Another question I have is: Why didn't the intruder just leave through the front door? Why bother going all the way to the basement? If a stun gun was used on JonBenet, wouldn't the intruder want to exit the house ASAP before JonBenet woke up?
Click to expand...

Yes. Since the intruder didn't likely come in through the window, it would have been an unlikely choice for exiting with a limp body.

The other thing about a stun gun is that it wouldn't likely knock her out - e.g. make her unconscious. Every time the intruder let off the trigger, JBR would have been screaming her head off.
 
I have seen news stories a few times about grown men who were stunned, and died from it. A stun gun is extremely powerful. Why didn't this stun gun have a bigger effect on JonBenet than just knocking her out for a few minutes, if it did exist? And why would the intruder risk killing JonBenet with the stun gun?
 
eileenhawkeye said:
I have seen news stories a few times about grown men who were stunned, and died from it. A stun gun is extremely powerful. Why didn't this stun gun have a bigger effect on JonBenet than just knocking her out for a few minutes, if it did exist? And why would the intruder risk killing JonBenet with the stun gun?
Click to expand...

Because the obvious answer is often the right one. There was no stun gun.
Anyone who bludgeoned and strangled their little victim to death wouldn't be worried about using a stun gun killing her anyway. If the stun gun made her scream, it would also have knocked her out. But I think the vaginal penetration is what made her scream- it was forceful enough to make her bleed.
 
There is evidence the intruder came in through the broken window---the leaves were disrupted...there was a noodle in the wine room. He knew it was safe to go out the same way he came in----and couldn't be sure the alarm system wasn't armed. The system wasn't armed---it's possible there was more than one, and one went out the butler door.
 
Maikai said:
There is evidence the intruder came in through the broken window---the leaves were disrupted...there was a noodle in the wine room. He knew it was safe to go out the same way he came in----and couldn't be sure the alarm system wasn't armed. The system wasn't armed---it's possible there was more than one, and one went out the butler door.
Click to expand...

The leaves were not disrupted. Leaves move around outside in the winter. The SPIDER WEB was NOT disrupted either. Spiders are dormant in winter in that part of the country.

So... the intruder brought his own ...NOODLE???

NO one could climb UP that wall and get out through that window. Climbing IN would be hard enough and notice Lou Smit did not attempt to climb OUT.
Why wouldn't they all go out the door? If the alarm didn't go off coming IN, why would they assume it might be armed?

Let's clear up that "broken window" theory. That hole in the glass was NOT big enough for a person to pass through. It was a small hole. JR gave the excuse that he broke it himself when he was locked out of the house.
 
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