Amanda Knox tried for the murder of Meredith Kercher in Italy *NEW TRIAL*#7

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otto said:
That's right. Guede is either a drughead drifter murderer, or he's a climbing super-enthusiast that can float to the window without using the bars used by the climbing enthusiast, support his entire body by gripping four fingers on a window ledge 13 feet above the ground (that was covered with glass at the time the window was broken), and then float up to the window and into the bedroom without disturbing the broken glass on the window ledge.

How did he get there in the first place without using the bars again?

Is Guede a drughead drifter or superhuman?
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Sorry, Otto, let's keep it simple.

You do believe the TV manipulated the climb. What were the motivations of the TV producers? What was the motivation of the young guy who you think agreed to lie and take part in the deception?
 
Sigh Sister said:
I had to reply to this again. Meredith was not a ninja or a robot. A lot of the arguments I've read........she was strong, agile, took a "karate course"', boxed once......she was intelligent ......seems to suggest there is no way she could have been a victim of a single attacker.Just because she may have been all of these thing, she was also HUMAN! That means she may not have noticed the broken window and may not have been able to defend herself against a single attacker.
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I suspect that Amanda and Raffaele were HUMANS also and its been my experience that HUMANS don't always do what I think they should do or what I think I would do in a given situation. There's a woulda/shoulda epidemic going on here when it comes to Amanda.
 
Sigh Sister said:
You forgot he was a practiced burglar. Any comment on the links i provided from independent sources regarding the weather?
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He had broken into a law office by climbing a window grid to the balcony and entering through french doors. How did this prepare him for suspending his body 13 feet above the ground and supporting his entire body with four fingers?
 
Katody said:
Are you saying he wasn't able to hoist himself up? Did you ever climb over a fence or pulled yourself out of a swimming pool without a ladder?

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You mean he can't do it? it's not that only the bars stop him?



I just noticed:
So you don't agree with Otto that the young guy is standing on something?
Why do you think the young guy agreed to lie and perform in a manipulation like this?
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He's obviously stuck in that photo, which is why the film is edited.
 
otto said:
He's obviously stuck in that photo, which is why the film is edited.
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But why would they do it instead of showing the truth?

Why would the young Perugian agree to take part in the manipulation?
 
SMK said:
So in this scenario they go to the cottage stoned, see MK dead, are too out of it to know not to disturb a crime scene or phone police, and go back to the apt to sleep. In the morning, they figure they will just get others to discover the body. And did not reckon what was going to unfold. But still, why not speak up at some point ? In my scenario, i figured they felt culpable as had put Guede up to it. But in yours, why not just admit they were stoned and touched a crime scene: Esp. at this late date?
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Bc They would have felt no one would believe them, if AK picked up a knife unknowingly or stepped in the blood, they could have lied at first, and then not want to admit to lying later bc it would look bad. They could not change their story again. Also, if stoned if they called that night to report a murder policies of course would have thought it was them. Better to let someone else discover it.

It seems from the posts alot of people seem not to understand the burden. Innocence does not need to be proved. I believe them factually innocent and they were not the cottage at all that night. But there are multiple scenarios that could also explain what some perceive to be lying. State has to prove their story is the only reasonable scenario. They do not do that at all. There are alot of holes in the state's case that make it impossible to prove beyond a reasonable doubt.
 
otto said:
Meredith weight, height: 50 kilos, 164 cm ... 110 lbs, 5'5

Massei Report
page 110
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thanks both to Otto and quesarita :
I see that Meredith was small but not a weakling; not short; as her family said she had muscle and was trained in karate. However, a knife at the throat and being told you'll be killed if you resist, would disarm the best of us.
 
Katody said:
But why would they do it instead of showing the truth?

Why would the young Perugian agree to take part in the manipulation?
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The only truth the video shows is his attempt to hoist himself without the bars, he fails and lowers himself back down.
They cut away to the lawyers and then back to him, only then he's sitting on the sill holding on to the bars.

This video proves nothing. I don't care what motivated him to do it.
 
Katody said:
Sorry, Otto, let's keep it simple.

You do believe the TV manipulated the climb. What were the motivations of the TV producers? What was the motivation of the young guy who you think agreed to lie and take part in the deception?
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Let's keep it simple and at the same time, let's include the facts. It was raining on the night of the murder (Prosecutor Crini Nov 25, 2013). The exterior wall is made of stone. Stone is slippery when wet. There is no glass below the window. The window ledge has a layer of broken glass. The wall is completely flat, so there is nothing to stand on after stepping onto the bottom window bars. There are no bars on the upper window to hold onto.

The simulation uses the newly installed bars and the climber does not demonstrate the climb without using the bars. The simulation shows the climber, using only four fingers on his left hand, to hold himself such that this hand is lower than his shoulders, and he is freely moving his right hand. All of a sudden, he is unable to hoist himself up using both hands?
 
MichaelSmith said:
He's stuck because there's bars there preventing him climbing in. :facepalm:
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Thanks for the facepalm :facepalm:

I love your avatar.

But to the point, they put him on a ladder or some other support to do the trick. He pretends to climb. I don't understand why the TV wouldn't do it properly all the way if they put so much work into faking it already? Anyone? Otto?
 
From photos of the scene, it looks like it would be (a lot!) easier to climb onto the roof at the entrance higher on the hill and get to the window that way.
 
MichaelSmith said:
He's stuck because there's bars there preventing him climbing in. :facepalm:
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On the night of the murder, there were very sharp jagged pieces of broken glass not only in the window, but on the window ledge - glass that was still on the ledge the following day. Keep the facts in mind ... not a single shard of glass below the window.
 
otto said:
The simulation uses the newly installed bars and the climber does not demonstrate the climb without using the bars. The simulation shows the climber, using only four fingers on his left hand, to hold himself such that this hand is lower than his shoulders, and he is freely moving his right hand. All of a sudden, he is unable to hoist himself up using both hands?
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But you said they're supporting him out of the frame. You said it's all fake. If they put so much work into faking it, why not fake it all the way?

And how did they manage to convince that guy to lie and take part in the faking? There must have been a lot of onlookers and the guy is from Perugia?

And who convinced the TV to fake that climb?
 
quesarita said:
From photos of the scene, it looks like it would be (a lot!) easier to climb onto the roof at the entrance higher on the hill and get to the window that way.
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From the photos from the scene it would've been a lot easier to climb on the balcony around back and thru the doors or the kitchen window. Something RG was familiar with because he had been to the boys flat.
 
quesarita said:
From photos of the scene, it looks like it would be (a lot!) easier to climb onto the roof at the entrance higher on the hill and get to the window that way.
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The easiest way to break in to the cottage is to climb onto the balcony and enter through the French doors, which is what Guede did when he broke into the lawyer's office and what was done when the cottage was broken into after the murder.
 
SMK said:
I see that Meredith was small but not a weakling; not short; as her family said she had muscle and was trained in karate. However, a knife at the throat and being told you'll be killed if you resist, would disarm the best of us.
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That's pretty small. My daughter's the same size and she's tough! runs marathons and obstacle races crawling under barbed wire and climbing over walls, but I'm pretty sure a grown man with a knife could overpower her and it would not be her fault for not defending herself.
 
Katody said:
But you said they're supporting him out of the frame. You said it's all fake. If they put so much work into faking it, why not fake it all the way?

And how did they manage to convince that guy to lie and take part in the faking? There must have been a lot of onlookers and the guy is from Perugia?

And who convinced the TV to fake that climb?
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Please don't edit my comments.
Let's keep it simple. Let's include the facts.
It's true that I do not believe that what we see on the climber video is complete and accurate, and I do not believe that it reflects the facts on the night of the murder.
 
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