Cause of Death and Time of Death *MERGED* (Warning: Contains Graphic Content!)

you are so right blondy. Even prison has its hiarchy, and child killers are on the lowest of rungs. Even if, by some twist of fate, EB and AB do not get the kindof punsihment I feel they should. I can take comfort that if incarcerated, a little rough justice will no doubt be administered by their prison peers.

Police said the said the bone found last week off of Christie Road "matches DNA found from the house at 21st Avenue Northwest," which is where Zahra lived before going missing on Oct. 9. A police source also told WBTV's Steve Ohnesorge that "the bone has evidence of cut marks on it."

http://www.wbtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=13465050

MSM is reporting this, although it doesn't necessarily relate to COD, it could be related.

tlcox said:

you are so right blondy. Even prison has its hiarchy, and child killers are on the lowest of rungs. Even if, by some twist of fate, EB and AB do not get the kindof punsihment I feel they should. I can take comfort that if incarcerated, a little rough justice will no doubt be administered by their prison peers.

Click to expand...

http://www.wbtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=13465050

Read the 3rd comment.

78gidget78 said:

God help me, i so don't want to type this. *WARNING GRAPHIC*

what if she did have an infection and AB/EB realized they would be investigated for neglect if they took her to the hospital because they let it go too long so in some sort of drug fueled lunacy or something they decided to "fix it themselves" hence, the bone located in a different area. i've seen other cases where "parents" stitch up abused children or try to set broken bones etc. just a thought MOO

ETA still means murder IMO

Click to expand...

This is exactly where my thoughts have been going.

For whatever reason, they did not want to take Z to the hospital. Being the [unusual people] they are, they decided to take care of the infection themselves. She was already missing part of her leg. She was fine after the first bit was removed. Just take a little more off.

They knocked her out with EB's pain pills or whatever. Took her to the bathroom or kitchen (I'm thinking bathtub) to 'take care of it.' Being the [people of undisclosed intelligence] they are, they didn't know about the femoral artery, and, she bled out.

I picture an 'oh crap' moment after they finished burying her and realized they still had the leg and prosthetic, and, that's why they weren't buried with her.

I can see EB rationalizing a situation like this as 'we really didn't kill her', 'we were trying to help her but she died'.

We'll see...

tiredblondy said:

http://www.wbtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=13465050

Read the 3rd comment.

Click to expand...

yep, just saw that posted in another thread. Cant say I am at all concerned over EB's welcome wagon that is waiting.

Hope that doesn't make me a horrible person but just a human being who is apalled at such monsterous perps

If Zahra died from a recent illness or natural causes and the parents just didnt realize how sick she was....there would be no need to dismember her body....

This was done to cover up the COD... whatever the method or cause .. EB and AB must have felt it would be consider illegal...

captdj said:

If Zahra died from a recent illness or natural causes and the parents just didnt realize how sick she was....there would be no need to dismember her body....

This was done to cover up the COD... whatever the method or cause .. EB and AB must have felt it would be consider illegal...

Click to expand...

I agree with that....Why hide her/dismember her...if natural cause/illness

To dismember her....they had to HIDE what she died of...

My guess is....Z had an infection on her amputated leg...and they ...as someone on here described...(sorry..graphic) removed the rest of her leg THEMSELVES..which caused her death....

So they had to hide her.....hide her.......as to HOW she died...

What a better way...than....as someone on here has already described..

HORRIFIC!!!!!...How could someone sleep after such as henious act...

still ...moo...

After seeing the photos of Zahra's room with a portion of wall and flooring removed, it appears there was forensic evidence found on the wall and floor. That suggests violence, such as a beating, stabbing, etc. I also believe however that Zahra may have developed an infection in her amputated leg from lack of proper care, and the ill-fitting prosthesis. Remembering that EB forced her to walk up that hill at the mobile home park, I can easily see what could have happened if Zahra could no longer walk on that leg.........:cry: MOO

justus4all said:

I agree with that....Why hide her/dismember her...if natural cause/illness

To dismember her....they had to HIDE what she died of...

My guess is....Z had an infection on her amputated leg...and they ...as someone on here described...(sorry..graphic) removed the rest of her leg THEMSELVES..which caused her death....

So they had to hide her.....hide her.......as to HOW she died...

What a better way...than....as someone on here has already described..

HORRIFIC!!!!!...How could someone sleep after such as henious act...

still ...moo...

Click to expand...

RBBM. Abusive neglect (as in not overseeing her medical needs) is not a natural cause of death. It would be prosecutable and that might have been reason enough for a couple of not-too-bright people to dispose of her the way they did.

I think it's possible that there was evidence of beatings and neglect in her body, though the deathi itself could have been "natural causes," mostly likely infection that the parents would not allow to be treated because then the bruises or broken bones would be found. I think they tried to dispose of the body to cover up something--but not necessarily the cause of death.

I'm trying to figure out the father. He seems to have been at work a lot of the time when EB was seen hollering at Zahra and making her run up and down that hill. He must have looked in on Zahra when she was lying on that mattress. Who lives with a child and goes out of his way to not lay eyes on her? If what some have said is true about the sepsis turning into a runaway infection, there would have to be an odor.

I'm trying to understand what happened to this father. He had custody before Eliza showed up in Australia, and even though Zahra faced down a lot of illness, it seems like she got pretty good care. She got treatments. She appeared clean, she appeared to be given enough food. She interacted with her grandmother. She had outings like that thing with the soldiers. Maybe Grandma was the one who was really raising Zahra, but Adam did not seem to be a monster until Eliza showed up. He gets in Hickory with Eliza, and suddenly he's a monster helping disposed of his child's body. I can't figure out any scenario that reconciles Australia Adam with Hickory Adam.

I think like alot of you it is a case of abuse AND neglect........we all know stepmum was abusing her, there is no doubt about that.....

I also think that she was not receiving any medical check ups......and for a girl who had cancer twice and a false leg, this is absolute neglect......her immune system would be so depleted because of all the chemo.......

I think she got septicaemia in her leg or a virus but also had signs of abuse and they were scared police would be called and they had other charges on them so ignored her problems and yes I would say tried to "fix" them themselves at home......maybe not to the extent of chopping of the leg, but maybe drugging her.......I dont think they expected her to die.....

I also think the "horrifying" thing HE did after the fact (as per letter) is the dismemberment of his daughters body........(sorry very hard to write that, how awful)

Ada said:

This is exactly where my thoughts have been going.

For whatever reason, they did not want to take Z to the hospital. Being the [unusual people] they are, they decided to take care of the infection themselves. She was already missing part of her leg. She was fine after the first bit was removed. Just take a little more off.

They knocked her out with EB's pain pills or whatever. Took her to the bathroom or kitchen (I'm thinking bathtub) to 'take care of it.' Being the [people of undisclosed intelligence] they are, they didn't know about the femoral artery, and, she bled out.

I picture an 'oh crap' moment after they finished burying her and realized they still had the leg and prosthetic, and, that's why they weren't buried with her.

I can see EB rationalizing a situation like this as 'we really didn't kill her', 'we were trying to help her but she died'.

We'll see...

Click to expand...

Almost word for word what I have been thinking.

Seeing the bedroom being tore apart because evidence (body fluids) was spattered everywhere.
IMO, that means a beating, stabbing something that made AB or EB go nuts on Zahra.
Then I think Zahra was left to lay there (or in the car) and die.
Meanwhile they planned what to do with her after she died.
Probably played games on computer or got high........JMOO

my theory at this point.. WARNING graphic but very well possible

AB was abused. Evident abuse which made dr office visit impossible.
trauma to body due to "punishment in their eyes" abuse in any reasonable person's eyes.
refues to take her to Dr. hoping the wounds would heal... trauma to head.. brain bleed .. then dead.. what could they do except make up a half brained idea. direct abuse for punishment would fall into the catagoryof the really didnt kill her.. they punished her.. in a sick mind that is justification... they both were involved.... if AB says he didnt know if wife was involved... what a crock... recent inverview after missing no conern and fake tears... very poor acting on his QUILTY part.. what man can cut his child up... what a horrible person! dontknow if this is appropriate but may he suffer in prison for many years and be treated horrible from inmates and live a misreable life untill that lethal injection .. sicko

dismenberment in wood chipper possible for small parts of body.
This is horrific to say.. yes blood on matress and bodily fluid from release of body functions at death.
Dismenbermenber meant.. in tub .. vein cut major vein to drain blood and get rid as much as possibe.. then dismemberment. Took to different locations.. they keep saying BONES.. i dont buy that all flesh would be off of the bones..not to the extent that a bone only would be left.. horrifice to imagine but boiling the remains would seperate flesh.. think of cooking.. long simmer and long boil removed flesh.. garbage disposal would be handy for that... i know it is sick but horrific it is...

For me COD is both a physical cause of death and also the reason, if any, that triggered
the event.

At this point looking for COD with no real data to go on probably leads to us to overanalyze
what little we do know.

It may simply be that Elisa flew into one of her many rages and killed Zahra either
by blunt force trauma or by strangulation. . . .no reason really.

Still, I keep thinking of that furniture store trip & then I think that perhaps she was killed
right after that visit.

Why were they at the furniture store? Just window shopping? Or did they have need of
new furniture? Did they Have a broken piece of furniture to replace?
Was Zahra later hit with a piece of broken furniture at home? If so, has that piece
been burned or chipped?

They did not buy any furniture that day that they visited (according to a news report I saw.)
Why not? Could not afford it? OR did not have needed room at home for what they
wanted to purchase? Just did not see anything they liked enough to purchase?

Or was Elisa upset about not being able to afford new furniture and so decided that
getting rid of Zahra would reduce costs to the household budget, making a new furniture
purchase possible?

And I remember that attic space they seem to have put Zahra in at a previous residence.
I note that it might have been difficult/impossible for a one legged 10 yr. old girl to climb
herself into that attic.
So who lifted her up there and did they perhaps sometimes stand on a chair to do it
instead of using a ladder. If so did that chair later break & need to be replaced?
Could that have eventually have prompted a visit to a furniture store?

Probably I am just overanalyzing the whole thing. Still, I do have a feeling that she
was killed not long after that visit to the furniture store even if the trip turns out
not to have been the trigger.

Also I think I remember it was reported they had a gun & I know that sometimes
abusers will point a gun at their victim and use it to terrorize them.
Did Elisa try this only to have the gun go off?

Conclusion for COD at this time: Not enough data made available.

wenwe4 said:

Police said the said the bone found last week off of Christie Road "matches DNA found from the house at 21st Avenue Northwest," which is where Zahra lived before going missing on Oct. 9. A police source also told WBTV's Steve Ohnesorge that "the bone has evidence of cut marks on it."

http://www.wbtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=13465050

MSM is reporting this, although it doesn't necessarily relate to COD, it could be related.

Click to expand...

This could support gidget's theory:
"what if she did have an infection and AB/EB realized they would be investigated for neglect if they took her to the hospital because they let it go too long so in some sort of drug fueled lunacy or something they decided to "fix it themselves" hence, the bone located in a different area. i've seen other cases where "parents" stitch up abused children or try to set broken bones etc. just a thought MOO

ETA still means murder IMO "

I think that whatever the COD, little Zahra was dead before ED found out where she was. EB and AB were probably just going to keep going on with their lives in hopes that no one asked. And if someone asked, the most logical answer would have been that she went back to Australia with her mom or something along that lines (in a hospital far away for treatment, etc). When they found out that ED was looking for her, they panicked. KB was reportedly (by ED's account) the one who found out that ED knew where Zahra was. KB may have contacted AB and then wanted to speak to Zahra, etc., on top of ED now knowing where they were also. Not being able to ever use the story of Zahra going back to ED (or worse - ED must have "taken" her), AB/EB realized that they needed a another story and came up with the ransom note, etc.

I wholeheartedly do not believe that ED's search was the reason for Zahra's death but rather the reason for the cover-up.

(not sure if this is the right thread - just didn't know where to put it)

So in the news thread the story of the day apparently is that the mystery of how Zahra died is deepened after finding her remains. Well I thought it was always a mystery and everyone here has come up with different ideas to solve the mystery. I think anything is possible yet. I think it is possible EB/AB were actually fighting with one another and Zahra ended up catching one of the blows. jmo

passionflower said:

Seeing the bedroom being tore apart because evidence (body fluids) was spattered everywhere.
IMO, that means a beating, stabbing something that made AB or EB go nuts on Zahra.
Then I think Zahra was left to lay there (or in the car) and die.
Meanwhile they planned what to do with her after she died.
Probably played games on computer or got high........JMOO

Click to expand...

I'll agree with most of this, although I believe she likely died in the house, then was taken to wherever to be dismembered, then transported to the sites where remains were found, in both vehicles. MOO

The actual cause of death at this moment, assuming she was dying of cancer is immaterial for the trial.
NOT that the cause does not matter It sure does.What really matters is the disrespect and lack of dignity this poor angel suffered at the hands of those who were her protectors. Even had she been found dead in her sleep. which is not the case. The inhumane treatment is beyond comprehension.
How can anyone even think of the chit they thought of doing to this baby?

I do not think she would have died of cancer if she was not neglected, and abused in the first place.
To finish her off, that way ???? the cannibals did the unthinkable.:furious: