17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #27

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OT: as passenger on commercial flight, a call was made for any medical personnel who could help as a passenger collapsed in the aisle. I said I was an RN and went to see person, did quick assessment, BP, Heart Rate, etc, patient quickly regained consciousness. I was required to give report to an MD on the ground in an ER in Arizona, since we were flying over that state. I had to provide my name, state licensed in and license number, plus give report on patient status. BTW airlines have a very good stock of emergency supplies. It was nice to know.
 
This release from a "friend" regarding extra pictures is hilarious. The wording is so....laughable, for lack of a better word. Apprarently the author forgets that the one who is the most loudly arrogant or the loudest braggart has, in reality, nothing to brag or be arrogant about
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I am actually sick enough to wonder if he was in hiding and wouldn't show his face to his lawyers or go to the 7/11 because he got someone to beat him up to take photos after the fact and it would have spoiled the effect if he'd been seen with fresh injuries too much later.

I just don't like the friend's attitude, I could imagine him laughing, "Fooled ya!"

It would be pretty stupid of GZ to take photos of injuries that were not there when he went to the PD. Or, is he supposed to have taken them before he went? If he had injuries, they will be documented by LE when he went there that night...I would think.

Hey, it's easy. Call the EMTs to the stand. Show them whatever picture he claims he has and ask them if that's how Zimmerman looked the night of the murder.

It doesn't matter if LE has photos or not, you should always take your own.

That's my point.

My point was not about the facts/rumors/speculations of the case, how long he was in custody, or if the photos would be admissible.

I was merely stating that anytime you have injuries or damages, you should take your own photos.

It's just a little advice FWIW.


JMO

Good advice. I echo that, as a lawyer.

--this article doesn't address george taking his own 'home pics' and whether or not they would be admissable.

--the article deals w/ rules and procedures for LE digital pics.

Basically, you'd have to look at the Florida rules of evidence. I know that in family, law, in CA, we can use such photos. But family court is lax on rules of evidence.

Essentially, what would happen if such evidence is allowed, would be that whoever took the photos would have to take the stand to authenticate them. Then, evidence from whatever professionals witnessed injuries, would be presented to refute the photos, if they showed something much different from what those professionals saw.

What I'm trying to say is the photos could come in (if they exist) and the jury would have to decide what weight to give them.

Wonder if Zimmerman had a penchant for watching old Westerns? How many of you can honestly see Trayvon leaning back, grabbing his chest, and saying "you got me" and taking his last breath as he is falling? Baloney, baloney, baloney. Jeez, I guess these people think the general public is just plain ignorant. Ridiculous.

~jmo~

Oh, I'm sure Zimmerman loves westerns. He's a cowboy wanna be', IMO; fancies himself a John Wayne type hero.

I have wondered if it might have been " You SHOT me."

That is more believable, imo.

Well, at a certain point, the contortions done to make Zimmerman the good guy, no longer make sense:
1. Zimmerman didn't go after the "a$$hole" he said always get away. He was looking for a street sign and was jumped.
3. Oh wait, it sounds silly that this neighborhood watch captain didn't know the street name, so he wasn't looking for a street sign, no, he was jumped from behind as he looked for a residence number.
2. Zimmerman was viciously attacked but such injuries either don't always cause bleeding, don't swell right away, or don't cause bruising immediately.
3. Zimmerman shot Trayvon in the chest as Trayvon beat him, but there was no blood on Zimmerman's jacket because sometimes violent 9mm gunshots bleed internally.
4. Zimmerman said the kid got shot and uttered, "You got me." But we all know that sounds contrived and fake, so really, he misheard and Trayvon said, "You shot me."

These are just some among many. IMO, common sense must prevail at a certain point.

He was NOT arrested on the night of the incident. He was taken to the SPD and questioned for 5 hours, whereupon they released him. He wasn't arrested till just recently.

After taking a year of constitutional law and a semester of criminal procedure, I know what constitutes an arrest. Criminal charges usually follow an arrest, but not always.

When you are handcuffed, placed in a squad car, taken to the police station and questioned, that is an arrest. There is a ton of case law on this.

However, there have been cases where, under such circumstances, the court deems it not an arrest when it comes to gathering evidence (fruit of the poisonous tree) or throwing out confessions due to Miranda.
A seizure or forcible restraint; an exercise of the power to deprive a person of his or her liberty; the taking or keeping of a person in custody by legal authority, especially, in response to a criminal charge.

An arrest may occur (1) by the touching or putting hands on the arrestee; (2) by any act that indicates an intention to take the arrestee into custody and that subjects the arrestee to the actual control and will of the person making the arrest; or (3) by the consent of the person to be arrested. There is no arrest where there is no restraint, and the restraint must be under real or pretended legal authority. However, the detention of a person need not be accompanied by formal words of arrest or a station house booking to constitute an arrest.
The test used to determine whether an arrest took place in a particular case is objective, and it turns on whether a reasonable person under these circumstances would believe he or she was restrained or free to go. A reasonable person is one who is not guilty of criminal conduct, overly apprehensive, or insensitive to the seriousness of the circumstances. Reasonableness is not determined in light of a defendant's subjective knowledge or fears. The subjective intent of the police is also normally irrelevant to a court's determination whether an arrest occurred, unless the officer makes that intent known. Thus, a defendant's presence at a police station by consent does not become an arrest solely by virtue of an officer's subjective view that the defendant is not free to leave, absent an act indicating an intention to take the defendant into custody.
http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/arrest
 
Hey, it's easy. Call the EMTs to the stand. Show them whatever picture he claims he has and ask them if that's how Zimmerman looked the might of the murder.



Good advice. I echo that, as a lawyer.



Basically, you'd have to look at the Florida rules of evidence. I know that in family, law, in CA, we can use such photos. But family court i lax on rules of evidence.

Essentially, what would happen if such evidence is allowed, would be that whoever took the photos would have to take the stand to authenticate them. Then, evidence from whatever professionals witnessed injuries, would be presented to refute the photos if they showed something much different from what those professionals saw.

What I'm trying to say is the photos could come in (if they exist) and the jury would have to decide what weight to give them.



Oh, I'm sure Zimmerman loves westerns. He's a cowboy wanna be', IMO; fancies himself a John Wayne type hero.



Well, at a certain point, the contortions done to make Zimmerman the good guy, no longer make sense:
1. Zimmerman didn't go after the "a$$hole" he said always get away. He was looking fro a street sign and was jumped.
3. Oh wait, it sounds silly that this neighborhood watch captain didn't know the street name, so he wasn't looking for a street sign, no, he was jumped from behind as he looked for a residence number.
2. Zimmerman was viciously attacked but such injuries either don't always cause bleeding, don't swell right away, or don't cause bruising immediately.
3. Zimmerman shot Trayvon in the chest as Trayvon beat him, but there was no blood on Zimmerman's jacket because sometimes violent 9mm gunshots bleed internally.
4. Zimmerman said the kid got shot and uttered, "You got me." But we all know that sounds contrived and fake, so really, he misheard and Trayvon said, "You shot me."

These are just some among many. IMO, common sense must prevail at a certain point.



After taking a year of constitutional law and a semester of criminal procedure, I know what constitutes an arrest. Criminal charges usually follow an arrest, but not always.

When you are handcuffed, placed in a squad car, taken to the police station and questioned, that is an arrest. There is a ton of case law on this. However, there have been cases where, under such circumstances, the court deems it not an arrest when it comes to gathering evidence (fruit of the poisonous tree) or throwing out confessions sue to Miranda. http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/arrest

Thanks Gitana. Do you happen to know any off the top of your head or can you suggest a WL search? I'm trying to understand the difference between being in custody and being under arrest. The reason I'm wondering is because of the immunity under SYG. I'm thinking an arrest would trigger the liability provisions of SYG if its ultimately determined that the immunity statute applies. Personally, I thought that was why the SPD may not have arrested him in the first place. But if they did, that's obviously out the window. TIA :)
 
Wonder if Zimmerman had a penchant for watching old Westerns? How many of you can honestly see Trayvon leaning back, grabbing his chest, and saying "you got me" and taking his last breath as he is falling? Baloney, baloney, baloney. Jeez, I guess these people think the general public is just plain ignorant. Ridiculous.



~jmo~

I can't. But BBM

To me the bigger problem is if he did this, he would have to be faling backward, so how did he end up face down with his hands under him, according to the police report?

I mean I just cannot picture how you can shoot someone on top of you who is banging your head into the ground yet somehow slither out from under him so he falls face down.
 
Are EMS even allowed to give pain med's or sedatives to people they are not transporting to the hospital in an emergency situation? When I was taken in an ambulance, thought I was having a heart attack but it was a panic attack, they didn't give me anything to calm me down even though my blood pressure was through the roof. Like seriously high!
 
Thanks Gitana. Do you happen to know any off the top of your head or can you suggest a WL search? I'm trying to understand the difference between being in custody and being under arrest. The reason I'm wondering is because of the immunity under SYG. I'm thinking an arrest would trigger the liability provisions of SYG if its ultimately determined that the immunity statute applies. Personally, I thought that was why the SPD may not have arrested him in the first place. But if they did, that's obviously out the window. TIA :)

I have to pay extra for anything out of 9th circuit case law, but if you can access Florida, I would look up 11th circuit cases and I think the database code would be fl-cs-all, (mine is ca-cs-all) which would give you appellate cases for the region and supreme court decisions as well as some local lower court rulings. I use "natural language" instead of terms and connectors. It's much easier. Then look up search and seizure, arrest, arrest and fruit of the poisonous tree, arrest and evidence, arrest and statements or confessions, etc.
 
NO a paramedic would not give you anything without a doctor's orders. They work under the hospital licensure and that of the ER doctors. And, you would be in the back of the bus being transported. You wouldn't walk away.

I was a basic EMT. I could only administer two drugs under doctor's orders. Epinephrin and nitroglycerin. If there was a medic that came onboard I would set up the lines and get everything ready. Medical control had to authorize the drugs.
 
Are EMS even allowed to give pain med's or sedatives to people they are not transporting to the hospital in an emergency situation? When I was taken in an ambulance, thought I was having a heart attack but it was a panic attack, they didn't give me anything to calm me down even though my blood pressure was through the roof. Like seriously high!

My son is trained as an EMT, but has not been hired on yet. But he is NOT allowed to give any meds of any kind except for like an epi-pen for someone dying or oxygen. But when he did his ride alongs he was paired with a paramedic. And the paramedic is allowed to give some meds in emergency situations, IIRC.

eta: as said above, the paramedic would be communicating directly with the docs in the ER at the time.
 
OT: as passenger on commercial flight, a call was made for any medical personnel who could help as a passenger collapsed in the aisle. I said I was an RN and went to see person, did quick assessment, BP, Heart Rate, etc, patient quickly regained consciousness. I was required to give report to an MD on the ground in an ER in Arizona, since we were flying over that state. I had to provide my name, state licensed in and license number, plus give report on patient status. BTW airlines have a very good stock of emergency supplies. It was nice to know.

O/T

God bless you. IMO nurses are the closest things to angels we have on earth.
 
I have to pay extra for anything out of 9th circuit case law, but if you can access Florida, I would look up 11th circuit cases and I think the database code would be fl-cases-all, (mine is ca-cs-all) which would give you appellate cases for the region and supreme court decisions as well as some local lower court rulings. I use "natural language" instead of terms and connectors. It's much easier. Then look up search and seizure, arrest, arrest and fruit of the poisonous tree, arrest and evidence, arrest and statements or confessions, etc.

haha..well, I didn't find anything addressing an arrest v. custody under SYG, but that's probably because it doesn't matter

By defining “criminal prosecution” to include the arrest, detention, charging, or prosecution of the defendant, the statute allows for an immunity determination at any stage of the proceeding. Created to eliminate the need to retreat under specified circumstances, the statute authorized the immunity determination to be made by law enforcement officers, prosecutors, judges, and juries. In enacting the statute, however, the legislature did not restrict the time frame for determining immunity, but rather provided a time continuum stretching across the entire criminal process.

~Reagon v. Mallory

So it looks like just by detaining GZ and taking him into custody the night of the shooting, SPD triggered the immunity provisions.

Thanks for your help :)
 
I can't. But BBM

To me the bigger problem is if he did this, he would have to be faling backward, so how did he end up face down with his hands under him, according to the police report?

I mean I just cannot picture how you can shoot someone on top of you who is banging your head into the ground yet somehow slither out from under him so he falls face down.

BBM, and not get any blood on you from the gunshot wound.
 
I can't. But BBM

To me the bigger problem is if he did this, he would have to be faling backward, so how did he end up face down with his hands under him, according to the police report?

I mean I just cannot picture how you can shoot someone on top of you who is banging your head into the ground yet somehow slither out from under him so he falls face down.

How would he end up face down (with bullet to the chest) if he were the one on the bottom? He should have been face up if that were the case.
 
This picture you posted response to is a photo enhancement ..I actually watched that person (technician) beside Gary Tuchman go thru all the colors and manipulations to get that picture..
If that is a true rendering of his injury..it is far too high or too close to top of his head to indicate pummelling into concret/sidewalk..infact it could have been from a tree branch or a slip and fall into something (it was on grass and wet from raining).
What I truly wish to hear and see is the EMT report and pictures if taken that night. I also noticed NO bandaging in place? Why no bandage? maybe because it wasnt bleeding or maybe because george took it off or maybe it was a superficial scrape..requiring maybe polysporin ointment to protect from infection.. Who knows??

bubm

EMS records from the night of the shooting show Zimmerman sustained no serious injuries. New York Daily News >>

http://articles.nydailynews.com/2012-03-31/news/31267760_1_ems-response-zimmerman-scuffle

scroll about half way down the page

<<snip>>

"On Friday, the Daily News obtained EMS documents suggesting Zimmerman, who an ex-colleague said was fired from a security job for being too aggressive, did not sustain serious injuries in the fatal encounter.

Paperwork detailing the EMS response to the shooting scene shows that a call for a second ambulance was canceled.

An audiotape containing the EMS communications, also obtained by The News on Friday, records unidentified workers discussing the scene.
Zimmerman’s condition is mentioned briefly in the 30-minute recording."


“Do we have a second patient?” a man asks.

“That’s affirmative. We have a second patient,” a woman replies.

“The second patient is not a gunshot.”

-----------------------------------------------

That's about as brief as you can get in a 30 minute recording.

Again, "Paperwork detailing the EMS response to the shooting scene shows that a call for a second ambulance was canceled."
 
You can't tell me if Zimmerman had legitimate injuries and photographic evidence or medical documentation, that O'Mara wouldn't be screaming from the rooftops. He would do whatever was necessary to move this case forward as quickly as possible in hopes of getting to the point where the judge would hear his plea for SYG. No way do I buy that there were injuries.


~jmo~

Jumping off your post...why would SPD leak the video and not still photos of GZ? One picture of GZ beat up or not beat up would have quieted one side or the other....
 
IF there were photos, that had irrefutable evidence of serious injury, there is NO WAY he would be sitting in that jail right now, when he has had at least THREE attorneys who could have provided them to the SA to avoid the charges in the first place. If someone has evidence that would keep them out of jail, what possible motivation would there be to sit in jail for what could be weeks or MONTHS waiting to make that available????

jmo

If such pictures existed, George would have put them on his website. He would have displayed them as prominently as he displayed the picture of that vandalized AA cultural center IMO.
 
Originally Posted by who

I just read the "bloody pulp" story.

"“He took the pictures himself...to protect himself. He knew they would come back for him. He had a good idea this wasn’t over. He’s not a dumb man.”

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nati...#ixzz1sRAS0LJC

What the heck?

Is there an implicit suggestion here police *didn't* take pictures of him that night?

If that is so...holy crap! is all I can say.

I thought I read where there was a video of his questioning at the PD that night as well. (not positive about that though.)

Why would he need to take pictures if there were pictures taken by LEO?

And if not, I say again: HOLY CRAP!
OMG!I wish my mind worked like yours! I never even thought of that!! wow... That will certainly work against GZ since LE didn't feel it important enough? WE shall see!!!


Don't you all remember what Joe Oliver said during many of his interviews when asked about what George thought about the public's reaction to the shooting of Trayvon?

Oliver said George was very surprised and had thought it, (the shooting) would all "blow over."

I'm skeptical that George has any personal photos of his supposedly *battered face and head.*

If he DID have self-taken-photos I am almost positive they would not be admissible in court. All courtroom evidence must be authenticated with a documented chain of custody to prove there was no tampering.

That's exactly why crime related photos are always taken by police or medical personnel.

imho
 
Are EMS even allowed to give pain med's or sedatives to people they are not transporting to the hospital in an emergency situation? When I was taken in an ambulance, thought I was having a heart attack but it was a panic attack, they didn't give me anything to calm me down even though my blood pressure was through the roof. Like seriously high!

It all depends on the level of the EMT. EMT-Bs are generally glorified ambulance drivers. EMT-Is can sometimes give meds, while EMT-Ps are usually the ones responsible for administering drugs in the field.

ETA: I should note this may vary from state to state.
 
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