Peru - Stephany Flores, 21, murdered in Lima hotel room, 30 May 2010 #15

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QUOTE=Bobarino;5300984]Thanks Nana46 and Newone.
It was getting to be too much for me.

I like the post-grad comment! We just gotta hope that there won't be any outside jobe for either one ever.[/QUOTE]

With any luck there won't be future opportunities for either of them to hone their skills.
 
Flow said:
Thank you for the link to the video.

My opinion, the first one looks like a "brother" handshake, sideways. [I don't know what that is really called. It is where you clasp each others thumbs. I think it was associated with the Black Power movement in the 1960s or 1970s. Nothing intended about the history of the handshake. I am just trying to find a way to describe it.]

The 2nd one does look like she hands him off a chip. But why would she need to sneak it to him? To keep up his machismo self-image? Was this video during the tournament or just a pickup hand of poker that night?
Click to expand...

I'm unsure why she would sneak him a chip when she meets him, it just adds to his cash booty. I've watched that clip a number of times BUT hmm, I was looking for the signs of poker cheating to begin with but I began to wonder if she hadn't made him a loan. Strickly speculation at this point.

Another post from earlier today which I replied to might give more info.

Originally Posted by Kamille
One thing I found interesting was the information that Erick Cabrera was supposedly in the casino that night and that he has been noted as a "friend" of Joran's in this article...

It also says that he hasn't given a statement yet. If I recall correctly Joran shook the hand of one of the players at his table as he was leaving the table and he was hanging around and talking to others who were milling around while he was waiting for Stephany to collect her winnings. I wonder if one of them was Erick Cabrera.

I'm surprised that considering Erick is from Peru, he hasn't yet given a statement about the events of that night, especially if he was actually at the table with Joran and Stephany. Although I'm sure he would dispute the title of "friend" of Joran. He is from Peru...how could they be friends? More likely Joran was just throwing his name around since he is an expert player and was expected to be in the final round of that tournament. Joran probably had spent the previous two weeks trying to befriend him. Maybe that's how he blew through all his money. I would imagine that Erick would be playing at some pretty high stakes tables.

MOO
Click to expand...

Strictly off the record I'd like to know too. I've been sleuthing some on the two missing Colombian women and so far I have more questions than answers. I read a news report VDS was seen with the two women but the report didn't say who said so. Nothing I can see out of Columbia yet but a raised suspicion.

This sleuthing in a search brought me to a website called poker cheats and it was educational I must say. I found an article on the site about VDS and left me wondering. A small quote and link to the article. I consider it pure speculation at this time but possibly later may play a role, only time can tell.


What really happened is that van der Sloot arrived in Lima, where a major poker tournament on the Latin American Poker Tour was being held at the Atlantic City Casino. He was working the tables in a collusion scam, and possibly a card-switching scam as well. I know firsthand that Peruvian casino officials are not very sharp in the surveillance department and I have previously blogged about their weakness and vulnerability to poker cheats and casino cheats. Evidently, van der Sloot is not highly skilled as a poker cheat, although he gets his highs from card-cheating just as he does from extortion scams and murder.
Click to expand...


http://pokercheats.richardmarcusbooks.com/2010/06/serial-killer-joran-van-der-sloot-is.html
 
Peliman said:
I'm unsure why she would sneak him a chip when she meets him, it just adds to his cash booty. I've watched that clip a number of times BUT hmm, I was looking for the signs of poker cheating to begin with but I began to wonder if she hadn't made him a loan. Strickly speculation at this point.

Another post from earlier today which I replied to might give more info.



Strictly off the record I'd like to know too. I've been sleuthing some on the two missing Colombian women and so far I have more questions than answers. I read a news report VDS was seen with the two women but the report didn't say who said so. Nothing I can see out of Columbia yet but a raised suspicion.

This sleuthing in a search brought me to a website called poker cheats and it was educational I must say. I found an article on the site about VDS and left me wondering. A small quote and link to the article. I consider it pure speculation at this time but possibly later may play a role, only time can tell.





http://pokercheats.richardmarcusbooks.com/2010/06/serial-killer-joran-van-der-sloot-is.html[/QUOTe

just for the record

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5281912#post5281912"]Joran Van der Sloot Confesses to Murdering Stephany Flores Ramirez #6 - Page 5 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

there was some indication that they had ''hooked up'' (as the kids say) prior and that SF owed him some $
Click to expand...
 
newone said:
just for the record

Joran Van der Sloot Confesses to Murdering Stephany Flores Ramirez #6 - Page 5 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

there was some indication that they had ''hooked up'' (as the kids say) prior and that SF owed him some $
Click to expand...

Yes and at this point anything is possible. It does go to credibility and it has been reported recently she had been a sizable winner prior to that hand shake so I'm not sure she would owe him, it seems unlikely but who knows.
 
:waitasec:
Peliman said:
Yes and at this point anything is possible. It does go to credibility and it has been reported recently she had been a sizable winner prior to that hand shake so I'm not sure she would owe him, it seems unlikely but who knows.
Click to expand...

:waitasec:
the toughest part (for me) has been that all know that they had socialized (played together) earlier in the week and there is nothing on that at all (i.e. video or friends' testimony -- but has been cited several times -- so clearly there was something happening there. I have been 'told' the gamblers will back each other (stake the bet) -- and split it.
 
SF gambled almost every night -- am guessing that she and JVDS had met and just because of circumstances got to build a rapport.
 
newone said:
:waitasec:

:waitasec:
the toughest part (for me) has been that all know that they had socialized (played together) earlier in the week and there is nothing on that at all (i.e. video or friends' testimony -- but has been cited several times -- so clearly there was something happening there. I have been 'told' the gamblers will back each other (stake the bet) -- and split it.
Click to expand...

Yes and they will loan each other money during table play between the more seasoned players. Yes staking the bet and table collusion is a possibility too. My eyes have just been opened to it. My Columbia sleuthing has led me to believe pokerstars is the sponsoring organization for the Latin tour.

I have seen a reported schedule of games but did not see Bogota, Columbia listed. YET
 
newone said:
May 6 - 14 was the Bogota Columbia poker tournament
http://colombiareports.com/colombia...tchmans-role-in-colombians-disappearance.html

yes he was there
Click to expand...

DAS official told W Radio Wednesday morning that their records indicate that Van der Sloot was indeed in Colombia at the time of the disappearances, but that he was merely in transit to his final destination of Lima, Peru, and never left Bogota's El Dorado airport.
Click to expand...

Then I have the story that seems to have sparked the speculation.

http://translate.google.com/transla...te-estadia-van-der-sloot-ese-pais&sl=es&tl=en
 
Thanks for the welcome in the past thread! I will try to comment on Peruvian specific things, but I'm not a law student, nor am I too familiar with the system... I do know that it isn't very good... Trials can take a long time and move very slowly, some judges are incompetent and others can be bought. I hope that with all of the attention this case has they won't try to do anything too fishy.

There has been a lot of confusion with news reports and mistranslations... I don't consider Peruvian headlines to be all that accurate, they tend to exaggerate just to sell more papers.
I haven't had the chance to speak to the friends that I had in common with Stephany. I think it would be awkward/sad to talk about what happened.

I've read all of the pages since I last posted and wanted to add a few things:
-The sign outside the hotel room is definitely an "S" (this indicates a secure area in case of an earthquake).
-Stephany most likely spoke very good English. She went to San Silvestre school (it's british and exclusive). Her dad mentioned that this may have made it easy for her to connect to VDS in the casino.
-Pisco sours are good, don't bash them.
-Most established buildings have concrete walls, drywall isn't as common.
-The hotel is right next to a gas station (which I think has a mini-store) and across the street from Wong (supermarket), either one sells coffee. I'm not 100% sure that that Wong opens before 9am, I'll try to remember to look at the sign next time I pass by.

I'm not sure if he actually went out for coffee or not. I'm sure that they have a video that they have yet to release... I keep thinking that if he was trying to invent an alibi, he could've just gone there and actually gotten some coffee. I do wonder what SF and VDS were doing for the couple of hours that they were in there. I don't really think that they were "hooking up" as someone mentioned.
I know that autopsy details have been released, but we don't have an estimated time of death, right?
 
Flow said:
Thank you for the link to the video.

My opinion, the first one looks like a "brother" handshake, sideways. [I don't know what that is really called. It is where you clasp each others thumbs. I think it was associated with the Black Power movement in the 1960s or 1970s. Nothing intended about the history of the handshake. I am just trying to find a way to describe it.]

The 2nd one does look like she hands him off a chip. But why would she need to sneak it to him? To keep up his machismo self-image? Was this video during the tournament or just a pickup hand of poker that night?
Click to expand...

wait a second, there's two handshakes? :waitasec:
 
legalmania said:
Saying that he told her(Stephany) she couldn't leave, secures the kidnapping charge.
Click to expand...


I bet he is kicking himself now for saying that. Joran is not as smart as he thinks he is, but there is no doubt that he is very evil.
 
Peliman said:
Yes and they will loan each other money during table play between the more seasoned players. Yes staking the bet and table collusion is a possibility too. My eyes have just been opened to it. My Columbia sleuthing has led me to believe pokerstars is the sponsoring organization for the Latin tour.

I have seen a reported schedule of games but did not see Bogota, Columbia listed. YET
Click to expand...

[bbm]

pokerstars.net is definitely the sponser for the LAPT - that's already been established

http://www.lapt.com/

what I found strange about the casino video was Steph looking around & hesitating to sit down & then ending up two seats away before moving next to Joran, along with the handshake, of course

the speculation that she may have slipped him a chip is interesting and plausible, especially if its true that she was familiar with him and if they were possibly loaning each other money (honestly I highly doubt Joran would ever loan anyone anything, he seems like a 'taker' to me)

but if they were cheating, well that might explain what I consider to be Steph's odd body language

she knew him but didn't want it to appear like she knew him? :waitasec:
 
sandangel said:
You know I was wondering the same thing earlier today about whether he had a cell phone in his possession when he was apprehended. Almost EVERYONE has a cell phone and I thought it was strange that nothing has been mentioned.

From what I have read about the case I believe that I have came across that Stephany had a cell phone and even used it the night before/morning of her murder. I would think that would be something Joran would have stolen from her along with the credit cards/money etc.
Click to expand...

Joran did steal her cell phone, according to his statement. He also says that he gave a cell phone to a taxi driver along with colognes and clothing & money.

Operative words being, 'according to Joran' and we all know what his words are worth.

ETA: ok, I'm not positive about him saying he stole her cell now that I think about it ... will have to verify that
 
danielabc said:
Thanks for the welcome in the past thread! I will try to comment on Peruvian specific things, but I'm not a law student, nor am I too familiar with the system... I do know that it isn't very good... Trials can take a long time and move very slowly, some judges are incompetent and others can be bought. I hope that with all of the attention this case has they won't try to do anything too fishy.

There has been a lot of confusion with news reports and mistranslations... I don't consider Peruvian headlines to be all that accurate, they tend to exaggerate just to sell more papers.
I haven't had the chance to speak to the friends that I had in common with Stephany. I think it would be awkward/sad to talk about what happened.

I've read all of the pages since I last posted and wanted to add a few things:
-The sign outside the hotel room is definitely an "S" (this indicates a secure area in case of an earthquake).
-Stephany most likely spoke very good English. She went to San Silvestre school (it's british and exclusive). Her dad mentioned that this may have made it easy for her to connect to VDS in the casino.
-Pisco sours are good, don't bash them.
-Most established buildings have concrete walls, drywall isn't as common.
-The hotel is right next to a gas station (which I think has a mini-store) and across the street from Wong (supermarket), either one sells coffee. I'm not 100% sure that that Wong opens before 9am, I'll try to remember to look at the sign next time I pass by.

I'm not sure if he actually went out for coffee or not. I'm sure that they have a video that they have yet to release... I keep thinking that if he was trying to invent an alibi, he could've just gone there and actually gotten some coffee. I do wonder what SF and VDS were doing for the couple of hours that they were in there. I don't really think that they were "hooking up" as someone mentioned.
I know that autopsy details have been released, but we don't have an estimated time of death, right?
Click to expand...

Welcome -- as far as the estimated time of death they have pinned it to be the time of 30 May 830 am roughly

I hope that you will feel okay to post your insights here. Your local knowledge will be much appreciated.
 
LadyL said:
Joran did steal her cell phone, according to his statement. He also says that he gave a cell phone to a taxi driver along with colognes and clothing & money.

Operative words being, 'according to Joran' and we all know what his words are worth.

ETA: ok, I'm not positive about him saying he stole her cell now that I think about it ... will have to verify that
Click to expand...

check out the father's videos 1 thru 9 on the media post (no discussion) just links -- I found him very easy to follow -- he annotates the possessions of SF
 
newone said:
May 6 - 14 was the Bogota Columbia poker tournament
http://colombiareports.com/colombia...tchmans-role-in-colombians-disappearance.html

yes he was there
Click to expand...

From your link:
"The DAS announcement challenges a previous report from Colombian newspaper El Espacio, which linked Van der Sloot to the case."

Something I read recently referred to El Espacio as a sensationalist newspaper, similar to National Inquirer I would imagine.

So, as with everything else in this case, who really knows what's true!!

MOO
 
LadyL said:
[bbm]

pokerstars.net is definitely the sponser for the LAPT - that's already been established

http://www.lapt.com/

what I found strange about the casino video was Steph looking around & hesitating to sit down & then ending up two seats away before moving next to Joran, along with the handshake, of course

the speculation that she may have slipped him a chip is interesting and plausible, especially if its true that she was familiar with him and if they were possibly loaning each other money (honestly I highly doubt Joran would ever loan anyone anything, he seems like a 'taker' to me)

but if they were cheating, well that might explain what I consider to be Steph's odd body language

she knew him but didn't want it to appear like she knew him? :waitasec:
Click to expand...

It's called ''goodwill'' gesture to the mark......first person to loan the money builds the trust ....
 
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