The Doe Network, Part 3: Who is Princess Blue?

Lanie said:

I agree with you about having a good guess about what happened to Tabbetha. I still think she could be possible, though remote. The reports for Princess Blue sometimes refer to "incomplete skeletal remains", which could explain the club foot, but it is a pretty far distance to dump a body if my suspicions are correct.

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Lanie, I agree that it would be a pretty far ride to dump a body if it were her and the ex had anything to do with it. It would be too far removed from the ring and from the Houston area. Chances are if he is responsible, he dumped her close by or at least fairly close by. I really think that because there are two strong connections to the Houston area(the REL High School ring and that she was found in Manvel, TX near Houston) that she was either originally from the Houston area or she had a definite connection the the Houston area.

Lion

Hi everyone. I still have not intently read the letter, but I did notice something that we may want to change. Under Princess' vital statistics it states that her body my have been out there since the seventies. I am afraid that if someone knows a girl who went missing in say 1989 who fits the description except for that they may not come forward. The truth is that we don't know how long she was out there. I don't think that statement was made by a forensic specialist but instead possibly a member of LE who simply didn't know how long she was out there for.

Although, I can't find reliable info to answer certain forensic questions, certain things tell me that she most likely was not out there since the 70's. They have dentals, for example. Remains left out in all weather in a humid area like Houston probably would not have intact teeth for dentals. Also, she still had viable bone marrow which was tested for drugs. Chances are if she were out there since the 70's, that would not be the case.

We have all heard of cases where DNA and nearly or fully complete remains have been found for people or animals who lived up to thousands of years ago. However, those cases are special. There were either frozen, mummified or fossilized due to the conditions that they remained in for all that time. In the Houston area decomposition would be quick and remains would most likely not be intact for very long. The combination of routine high humidity with high heat would accelerate decomposition.

I am thinking that instead we might say something like, "Her remains may have been out there for as long as the 1970's, however her time of death was more likely in the late 80's to early 1990."

This way we cover our bases all around. What does everyone think?

Lion

I am so sorry but I never did find anything more about this story, not in the news paper either

That is okay, sissy. Thank you for searching! There are several articles in Houston papers, but I was trying to see if there was a TV news report so I could see the video--even though it might take 15 minutes to download it if it works at all.

Lion

I have been unable to access the Texas Equusearch website. It says I do not have permission to view it. Can someone else try and see what happens?

Hello everyone,
I only have a few minutes, but I promise I will be more avail. later this week!
So...WOW!! I never thought the story would be quite this hot! I'm immensely grateful that it is out and in soooo many places. I agree w/ most of you that she sure seems connected to the Houston area, but it doesn't hurt for the story to appear elsewhere. You never know where OTHER ppl. are who may recognize her, be alums, or be able to help in some other way.

A big THANK YOU!! to all of you are putting in so much time and effort working on the spreadsheets and poring over MP sites. The possibles you have posted are helpful. I will take the time to really look closely at them soon, but for now I can say that Cheatham made me gasp! I see definite facial similarities. Whoever said the hair is off is correct, but that is often the case. Hair can be a tricky part of a facial recon. or reprodux. Oh, and to clear things up, NOOOOO, there WAS NOT any hair at the scene, contrary to what some of the articles are starting to say. I get frustrated at how the media takes liberties w/ what they print. They are stretching some of the facts, at a minimum. RKnowley, I don't blame you for being a little confused!

more soon,

Yes, I have already expressed my displeasure, to say the least, at the media outlets who are getting things incorrect. :bang: My guess on the Houston Chronicle write-up(s) is that it is the same reporter from the first article and he is pulling some of the old info. from his first article forward, such as the PMI (time of death). Unless there is something he knows that none of the investigators have been told, THERE IS NO FORENSICALLY DETERMINED TOD!! So, I see that one article has been saying the 6 mos. to one year thing again, and another one says up to 2 yrs... aaagghh!What is it that richandfamous says? "Facts, facts, get them straight!":banghead:

I tend to agree with what Lion has been surmising, that it would be closer to the 1990 discovery, rather than further out. Maybe the two years interval IS a good assumption, but that's all that it is. She was out in the open, which means open to the elements, scavenging, etc. And due to the weather conditions in a place like the Houston, coastal area, in my experience, skeletonization can happen quicker than one would think. And we now know that there was no clothing to help protect her. (poor girl!) So that helps speed the process as well. I think it is likely that her death occurred in '88, '89, or early '90, in my experience and opinion, but it is not fact. (CYA! or rather, C my A!)

I am really hoping that some family members will start coming forward to have their DNA taken, so that comparisons can start being made, and "possibles" ruled out, slowly.

You guys are awesome in your dedication! :angel:

LionRun said:

Sloane, please check your PM's--they are runningith overith lol.

Lion

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Got them Lion! Thanks! Time has been of the essence lately. They are cleared out now.

I'm afraid Miss Munson's teeth are much too beautiful to be Princess Blue's! thank you for posting a "possible", though.

On that note, can anyone who has more time than I do currently, please contact the "Doe Ntwk." and ask them to update their site?? It is my understanding that they just pull their postings from sites like those from LE or places like the TXMPCH. They have needed to pop back over for months now and see the changes to be sure they are posting proper and current info.,; they still have the Hispanic thing going on...

TIA TIA TIA

BTW, YES!!!
The first online forum the articles about PB are referencing ARE you guys here at WS!!:woohoo: It's time you deserve some credit, even if it doesn't mention WS by name. Then later, in a diff. article, it does mention the SKM site by name, so if ppl. go to that one I'm sure they'll make their way to this one from the links. Great job, everyone! Even though I kow you're not doing it for the credit...:angel:

I feel pretty sure that the investigators keep up with what is being posted on the varying sites.

Hi sleuthers. I tried posting post 57 on Princess Blue part 2, but it blew the margins so I took it out. Edit: It was not this post after all that is blowing the margins. Oh well, I though it was this post. I missed this in the last thread and wanted to comment on 2 possible matches that Sable posted. The matches were suggested to her by people who emailed in regards to Princess' myspace.

I think Kimberly Norwood would not be a match because she was 2 when she disappeared. Even if she were kept alive until early 1990, which is highly doubtful, she would only have been 13 at TOD. Princess was likely 17-21 or 16-22 if a margin is given.

Maria De Los Angeles Martinez disappeared after Princess Blue's remains were found so it cannot be her.

I am sending Kimberly Shawn Cheatham's(WS Princess thread, part 2, post 536) info to Sgt. Coffman, however. She has enough facial features similar to Princess' recon. She disappeared from Dallas, so we don't know how the ring would come into play. But, there could be a connection we don't know about. We also don't know her height in life. It says 4'6" and that could be wrong. 4'6" is possible, but that would mean that she was VERY petite in life.

We will just keep trying and one of these days we might find a match. '

Lion

Lanie said:

I edited down the Morgan Munson page as much as I could, and I have no idea when she went missing, though I spent several hours trying to track it down. I'll check the Houston Chron archives now and see if I can find anything there.
Lanie

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Good luck, Lanie and thank you for being a part of this!

Lion

sloane said:

I'm afraid Miss Munson's teeth are much too beautiful to be Princess Blue's! thank you for posting a "possible", though.

On that note, can anyone who has more time than I do currently, please contact the "Doe Ntwk." and ask them to update their site?? It is my understanding that they just pull their postings from sites like those from LE or places like the TXMPCH. They have needed to pop back over for months now and see the changes to be sure they are posting proper and current info.,; they still have the Hispanic thing going on...

TIA TIA TIA

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Hi there sloane! It is so good to see you:blowkiss:. Can you perhaps let us know something about Princess' dentals? Does she have crowding or specifically crooked teeth? Does she have many fillings? Does she have missing teeth? Do you know if she had her last molars, if they had been surgically removed or if they never came in? This could help us in finding possible matches.

I guess I could refer them to the link where the article states that a new forensics team has a new description. Hopefully, they don't have a policy whereby they only print info from legal sites, because I haven't noted that the TX dps site has updated their site either. I hope both sites will be updated.

Lion

Keep up the good work gang! I don't have the time, nor resources to do a lot of sleuthing, but you guys are doing great. I'd say the Kimberly Cheatham one looks promising.

Hi everyone! So, did they do a DNA analysis that made them change thier minds about her being hispanic and decide that she may be african american and caucasian instead? I have been searching for women listed as biracial or mixed but so far I don't see any that look promising.

teonspaleprincess said:

Hi everyone! So, did they do a DNA analysis that made them change thier minds about her being hispanic and decide that she may be african american and caucasian instead? I have been searching for women listed as biracial or mixed but so far I don't see any that look promising.

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Hi teons. Princess Blue's DNA has been in CODIS for some time. Actually, a top Forensics team just did an examination of Princess' remains at the end of 2006. The original work up was performed by an ME in 1990.

Although an ME is qualified to determine cause, manner, and TOD for a person who passes shortly before they are found, a complete forensics team is more qualified to determine such things when skeletal remains are found. The ME unfortunately got it wrong when he/she determined Princess to be Caucasian/Hispanic. He/she was correct that Princess was Caucasian with something else. But, the something else was a possibility of mixed race African American ancestry, not Hispanic. Back in 1990 there simply was not enough funds for a complete forensic work up by a full forensics team. Fortunately, funds were available to finally do this a few months ago.

Again, I think it is best to be open minded concerning her race when looking for a possible match. Princess may have had no African American facial features noticeable to most people when she was alive. Or she may have had such features. The forensics's team's examination did reveal that she had a possibility of mixed race African American ancestry, but notice that they did not classify her as bi-racial.

She may or may not have had African American features that were noticeable in life. So, we need to pay attention to all possible matches if the basic description, date last seen, and other factors fit.

I am hoping that we don't overlook a possible match just because the description does not show a girl with African American features or is not listed as bi-racial.

Lion

Lion, you said something about a date being wrong, so it couldn't be her. I posted a link in here somewhere, I don't have time to look it up right now, but there is a thread here in websleuths about a woman who was missing for over 11 years before her body was identified. Her remains were found 5 miles away, and IIRC, after a couple of weeks, but her bf didn't report her missing for 2 or 3 weeks, so the two weren't compared for over 11 years. LE was looking at the missing woman as having disappeared a few days after the body was found.

Lanie said:

Lion, you said something about a date being wrong, so it couldn't be her. I posted a link in here somewhere, I don't have time to look it up right now, but there is a thread here in websleuths about a woman who was missing for over 11 years before her body was identified. Her remains were found 5 miles away, and IIRC, after a couple of weeks, but her bf didn't report her missing for 2 or 3 weeks, so the two weren't compared for over 11 years. LE was looking at the missing woman as having disappeared a few days after the body was found.

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Lanie, you have a very good point. Perhaps we should include certain possible matches if the person who reportedly last saw the victim may also be the POI or possible suspect. And, if the last time she was seen by others(at work, at a club, by her family and other friends, etc..) was prior to the time that a possible match in a UID is discovered, we may want to look further. If someone fits the description like a well fitting glove perhaps we need to research further to see if the date last seen was printed wrong intentionally or unintentionally. Thank you for enlightening me. We sure do not want to miss the right match!

Lion

Here's the thread I was talking about.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49520

and another link to this story.
http://z13.invisionfree.com/PorchlightUSA/index.php?showtopic=3943&st=0&#last

Lanie said:

Here's the thread I was talking about.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49520

and another link to this story.
http://z13.invisionfree.com/PorchlightUSA/index.php?showtopic=3943&st=0&#last

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I agree that is a possibility that something like this happened. Or maybe some other mistake was made in Princess' case. It is also possible that she was never put on any of the major Missing sites making it hard to ID her. Somehow our beloved Princess Blue seems to have fallen through the cracks, and something is missing or she most likely would have been ID'd by now.

Lion