IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #26

imkeylime · Dec 17, 2011

Ros said:
There were rumors that the S&R dogs lost the scent at the gravel parking lot south of Five North. There were also rumors that the dogs lost the scent at a dumpster in the area. Unless someone on this board is privy to accurate information about the results of the dog searches, we really do not know what, if anything, the dogs detected. All we know is that dogs were used and that their use has not yet led to enough evidence to make any arrests.

Thank you! Sadly, I guess was thinking about dogs that pick up cadaver scent, but you're right, we really don't know what's been found. Now that you mention it, I remember both rumors. I thought a lot about the dumpster having a possible hit while the landfill search was going on ...

Jupiter812 · Dec 17, 2011

Five Bloomington residents were just arrested on federal drug (11 pounds of cocaine) and weapons charges. If drugs were an issue that night, it's work like this that could potentially lead to info about Lauren's disappearance. Maybe a defendant will cop a plea.

Jupiter812 · Dec 17, 2011

British said:
Do we know that for sure? I think that is all speculation, as the police had not released much information. But even if the dogs had detected something, it would not have been alone sufficient for arrests in the absence of any other evidence.

No, we don't (which it why I said "it seems"). Sometimes dogs' trails lead to dead ends too. I was wondering about the use of dogs' results as evidence. Is it even considered evidence in court? I don't know.

Gabby66 · Dec 17, 2011

Wow Jupitar, you really brought back some info that I had forgotten (or missed).....both the part about CR being aggressive AND the word "lurch" to describe her coming out of the elevator. I know that I read those descriptions, b/c I recall doing so. However, I completely took them each as being different from the way I do now (thanks to your comments). Earlier, I thought "aggressive" to mean "sexual advances". I must have missed the rest of the description. I understood her friends to be concerned b/c CR was possibly "coming on" to LS. When I read that she lurched out of the elevator, I thought it was referring to "stumbling drunk". Does anyone have that article? For the life of me, I thought that either CR was already down in the lobby (and she came down later), or vice versa. If CR was in the lobby, then he couldn't have been one to force her out of the elevator. Hmmmmm.

cluciano63 · Dec 17, 2011

Jupiter812 said:
No, we don't (which it why I said "it seems"). Sometimes dogs' trails lead to dead ends too. I was wondering about the use of dogs' results as evidence. Is it even considered evidence in court? I don't know.

Dog handlers can testify, it is up to the jury whether or not they accept the evidence...

Jupiter812 · Dec 17, 2011

Gabby66 said:
Wow Jupitar, you really brought back some info that I had forgotten (or missed).....both the part about CR being aggressive AND the word "lurch" to describe her coming out of the elevator. I know that I read those descriptions, b/c I recall doing so. However, I completely took them each as being different from the way I do now (thanks to your comments). Earlier, I thought "aggressive" to mean "sexual advances". I must have missed the rest of the description. I understood her friends to be concerned b/c CR was possibly "coming on" to LS. When I read that she lurched out of the elevator, I thought it was referring to "stumbling drunk". Does anyone have that article? For the life of me, I thought that either CR was already down in the lobby (and she came down later), or vice versa. If CR was in the lobby, then he couldn't have been one to force her out of the elevator. Hmmmmm.

Gabby, I don't think the original article said whether CR was with her when she got off the elevator. But I do know it sounded scary. She fell to her knees. I can't see her getting on the elevator to go downstairs on her own, ya know, and leaving CR behind ? Maybe someone put her on it to get her out of the line of fire so to speak. If she was alone or with someone safe, perhaps the elevator's force of gravity was too much for her.

AbbeyR · Dec 18, 2011

I think this might be the one you are thinking of:

http://www.lohud.com/article/201107...lding-video-no-condition-help-friend-get-home

...Lauren Spierer was so incapacitated as she left her apartment building the morning she went missing that she stumbled out of her elevator, fell against a wall and had to be helped to her feet by a male friend who led her out of the building, a person who saw the video evidence told The Journal News on Thursday

Based on the other words used to describe Lauren around that time (stumbling, staggering etc.), I just interpreted this to mean she was having a hard time walking in her condition, not that she was pushed etc.

I still wonder why her friends who saw her at that point -- and were apparently disturbed enough to punch someone in the face -- let her stumble off with a guy they described as acting aggressively and inappropriately, with no shoes...

And why, despite there obviously being several witnesses, no one has spoken up to make any sense of what happened there. Hopefully LE and the Spierers at least have this part of the puzzle. We still have all the same old unanswered questions...

Jupiter812 · Dec 18, 2011

AbbeyR said:
I think this might be the one you are thinking of:

http://www.lohud.com/article/201107...lding-video-no-condition-help-friend-get-home

Based on the other words used to describe Lauren around that time (stumbling, staggering etc.), I just interpreted this to mean she was having a hard time walking in her condition, not that she was pushed etc.

I still wonder why her friends who saw her at that point -- and were apparently disturbed enough to punch someone in the face -- let her stumble off with a guy they described as acting aggressively and inappropriately, with no shoes...

And why, despite there obviously being several witnesses, no one has spoken up to make any sense of what happened there. Hopefully LE and the Spierers at least have this part of the puzzle. We still have all the same old unanswered questions...

I wonder that too but do we know that her friends saw her? Who would those friends be?

AbbeyR · Dec 18, 2011

Jupiter812 said:
I wonder that too but do we know that her friends saw her? Who would those friends be?

Well, I don't know about the witnesses described in the article that Bessie posted, but I believe that mutual friends of Lauren and Jesse saw Lauren at the bar and "sent her home" (according to at least one 'unofficial' report) and also witnessed (and/ or were part of) the altercation at Smallwood. This, according to their own statements on Facebook in the few days following her disappearance. MSM sources also reported that Jesse's friends were involved in the altercation, and they were the ones (I think) who claimed that the fight was about protecting Lauren (or CR's bad behavior towards her).

All that said, who knows what condition those friends were in, and no matter what they did or didn't do, they had no way of knowing how serious the night would turn out to be. (Oh... I alternate between feeling badly for asking these questions, and then not feeling badly, when I think about Lauren or the Spierers' desperate appeals to friends and acquaintances for information that seemed, at least, to fall on deaf ears).

elmorejames · Dec 18, 2011

bessie said:
USA Today, 6/13/2011

Several students who saw Rossman in the period after Spierer vanished questioned the "memory loss," saying he had no bruising or redness to his face that would support the claim.

"Supposedly he had that big altercation, but he didn't look like anything happened to him," said senior Chris Malone, who saw Corey the next morning, Feb. 4.

Rossman was outside his apartment, asking Malone if he'd seen Spierer.

"What's up boys?" Malone quoted Rossman as telling him. "Did you happen to see a little blond girl?"

Malone, who hadn't seen her, said he knows Rossman and roommate Mike Beth because they played in his Fantasy Football League and would sometimes grill together.

"They like to party," he said.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2011-06-12-lauren-spierer-missing_n.htm

ETA:

Fox59, 06/09/2011

It was approximately two hours earlier, at 2:40 a.m., a witness told Fox59 News that Spierer and a friend, Corey Rossman, returned to her apartment building after closing down Kilroy's Sports Bar.

This witness told Fox59 News that Spierer appeared intoxicated and Rossman was paying what could be described as, "inappropriate," attention to her...

Whether he knew it or not, apartment officials said Rossman was not to be allowed inside.

"We do have a no trespass list that does exist. There is a list of people who have historically caused problems here and our security folks keep track of them," they said.

http://www.fox59.com/news/wxin-family-of-missing-iu-student-offers-100k-reward-20110609,0,3522683.story

First appeared in USA Today 06/11/2011 (The original article has disappeared from the web and is available only in Google cached versions.)

A friend of Rossmans told The Journal News on Friday that Rossman looked groggy but OK several hours afterward and was aware that Spierer was missing. The friend, a male Indiana University student who lives in Spierers building, said he ran into Rossman at a CVS pharmacy the afternoon of June 3 and saw no redness or bruising on his face.

He said Rossman was with Beth and told him that Spierer had been in their apartment early that morning.

The friend spoke on the condition his name not be used because he did not want to anger Rossman and did not want police to know he was speaking about the case with a reporter.

He said Rossman recalled having a lot to drink the previous night and said he went home and passed out. Beth told the friend he put Rossman to bed and that Spierer wanted to leave. "Beth told the friend he watched her walk out the door and down the street on her way home, the friend said.

According to the friend, Beth and Rossman are not just roommates, but also close friends; he described Rossman as cool and sometimes cocky and Beth as his slightly younger buddy who looked up to Rossman.

http://www.andfed.com/2011/06/11/dna-samples-taken-in-missing-iu-student-case/

New York Post, 06/09/2011
Students who encountered Spierer, 20, and her pal -- identified by friends as Corey Rossman -- leaving the building told The Post that she was drunk, he was bothering her and that he got angry when they asked him to stop.

"He was being overly aggressive . . . being so belligerent," one said.

Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/nation...d_vanish_7blBBnnw997WFm34fNZELO#ixzz1glXIIUqB

The strangest part of all this information is, "Beth told the friend he watched her walk out the door and down the street on her way home, the friend said." This was never the case in any previous mentions of "Lauren wanting to party", and leaving for JR's.

IMHO JR would only be sticking his neck out, if the drugs were supplied by him. CR and MB have some explaining to do for sure. They seem to be the shadiest of all them. I can see where JR could look accountable, but I'm sure he's experiencing some guilt for supplying any drugs.

doubtingthomas · Dec 18, 2011

elmorejames said:
The strangest part of all this information is, "Beth told the friend he watched her walk out the door and down the street on her way home, the friend said." This was never the case in any previous mentions of "Lauren wanting to party", and leaving for JR's.

IMHO JR would only be sticking his neck out, if the drugs were supplied by him. CR and MB have some explaining to do for sure. They seem to be the shadiest of all them. I can see where JR could look accountable, but I'm sure he's experiencing some guilt for supplying any drugs.

Didn't JR say he saw her walk out and down the street and round the corner at 11th and College? That makes two guys see her walk out of their apts and down the street. I find this a little strange. Also, MB was working on a paper for class the next day. Anybody know what time his class was? My reason for asking is, it was stated CR came out in the hallway and asked about a little blond girl. If MB was in class he would not have been there to tell him about seeing her leave. If he was still in the apt or talked to CR before class CR would have no reason to ask about her. Also, he doesn't remember anything after being hit. So, how does he remember being with a little blond girl? So, he can remeber being with her up until he is hit but can't remember being with her after getting hit? Sounds a little like selective memory going on here. Hope LE has put a timeline together and has asked these questions also.

AbbeyR · Dec 18, 2011

It is strange, but the problem is that some of that reporting was so sloppy that it's hard to tell if the story evolved or if it was just bad reporting.

(Note for example, the first article says "the next morning, FEB 4" It was never clear to me whether this meant June 4th? Or, if it was a few hours after she went missing, wouldn't it be June 3rd?... Did the reporter misinterpret "the next morning" - Problematic for many reasons.

Also, I think it's possible that in the days before JR's name was known, the story of the person seeing her walk away was attributed to the last person to see LS, and at that time the last person to see LS was thought to be MB... see what I mean?

Or it's possible the POI concocted a story and it contradicts what they may have told neighbours in those first hours and/or days. But given all the other mistakes made in these articles, who knows.

AbbeyR · Dec 18, 2011

We need neighbor guy and/or unnamed friend to log in and set the story straight.... Guys? You reading? It's anonymous here... :shush:

Jupiter812 · Dec 18, 2011

AbbeyR said:
Well, I don't know about the witnesses described in the article that Bessie posted, but I believe that mutual friends of Lauren and Jesse saw Lauren at the bar and "sent her home" (according to at least one 'unofficial' report) and also witnessed (and/ or were part of) the altercation at Smallwood. This, according to their own statements on Facebook in the few days following her disappearance. MSM sources also reported that Jesse's friends were involved in the altercation, and they were the ones (I think) who claimed that the fight was about protecting Lauren (or CR's bad behavior towards her).

All that said, who knows what condition those friends were in, and no matter what they did or didn't do, they had no way of knowing how serious the night would turn out to be. (Oh... I alternate between feeling badly for asking these questions, and then not feeling badly, when I think about Lauren or the Spierers' desperate appeals to friends and acquaintances for information that seemed, at least, to fall on deaf ears).

This is the first I've heard of anyone sending her home. It's a wierd phrase, reminds me of MB saying he put CR to bed. It's like these "kids" are trying to sound responsible when the bottom line is they failed Lauren because how does one let an inebriated friend leave a bar without her shoes and phone and with a guy they dislike no less. Alas, they may be CYA after the fact.

I think the quote attributed to MB about seeing her leave may be from within the first several days, during which time it was being (mis)reported that CR in fact was the last to see her. Then the media exploded with the info about JR.

AbbeyR · Dec 18, 2011

Jupiter812 said:
This is the first I've heard of anyone sending her home. It's a wierd phrase, reminds me of MB saying he put CR to bed. It's like these "kids" are trying to sound responsible when the bottom line is they failed Lauren because how does one let an inebriated friend leave a bar without her shoes and phone and with a guy they dislike no less. Alas, they may be CYA after the fact.

I agree. The quote I am thinking of was on Facebook, so like all the other rumors, should be taken with a grain of salt...

But because I am procrastinating right now, I went back to PT to see if it was quoted there and read the very first thread about Lauren. Didn't find what I was looking for (there's too much, and I can't spend any more time reading), but it was interesting to re-read those comments.

In it, JR's roommate's friend, who knew about JR before his name was released to the public, initially posted about the story there. Among his quotes:

He is the first give detailed info about what drugs were probably consumed, based on his knowledge of JR and his roommates. He says that JR has "no soul" and when asked to clarify, says:

<modsnip>

http://phantasytour.com/bands/1/topics/2726003/posts

Here (again, before the stories with names are released in the media), he repeats the story he knows. The interesting thing is that in this version (presumably third hand through JR's roommates) CR and Lauren went back to JR's, not CR's.

<modsnip>.

http://phantasytour.com/bands/1/topics/2726003/posts

So again, broken telephone effect, or changing stories... wish I knew.

Jupiter812 · Dec 19, 2011

AbbeyR said:
I agree. The quote I am thinking of was on Facebook, so like all the other rumors, should be taken with a grain of salt...

But because I am procrastinating right now, I went back to PT to see if it was quoted there and read the very first thread about Lauren. Didn't find what I was looking for (there's too much, and I can't spend any more time reading), but it was interesting to re-read those comments.

In it, JR's roommate's friend, who knew about JR before his name was released to the public, initially posted about the story there. Among his quotes:

He is the first give detailed info about what drugs were probably consumed, based on his knowledge of JR and his roommates. He says that JR has "no soul" and when asked to clarify, says:

http://phantasytour.com/bands/1/topics/2726003/posts

Here (again, before the stories with names are released in the media), he repeats the story he knows. The interesting thing is that in this version (presumably third hand through JR's roommates) CR and Lauren went back to JR's, not CR's.

http://phantasytour.com/bands/1/topics/2726003/posts

So again, broken telephone effect, or changing stories... wish I knew.

Geez louise, "no soul"? That's as bad as it gets.

PlainJaneDoe · Dec 19, 2011

Wishing for a Chanukah miracle for Lauren & her family. :menorah:

Jupiter812 · Dec 19, 2011

A new interview. I think this is the second one the Spierer's have done since they've been back in New York. It's obvious they are trying to draw CR out of his cave.

Highlights: Robert says CR has not talked to the police at all. This is contrary to what was said early in the investigation. I recall it was reported he was cooperative and allowed searches of his apt, car, and credit card. Robert also said that Dietl has obtained info that the police do not have.

http://www.myfoxny.com/dpp/news/parents-of-laruren-spierer-speak-out-20111219

Such a sad time for them. They are so committed it must be easier for them to do events and interviews than to disengage at this time.

Ros · Dec 20, 2011

Interesting. I wonder why so many early reports implied CR's complete cooperation.

http://www.wthr.com/story/14879549/...appearance-of-iu-student?clienttype=printable

http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/stories/2011/06/09/news.629101.sto

Jupiter812 · Dec 20, 2011

Ros said:
Interesting. I wonder why so many early reports implied CR's complete cooperation.

http://www.wthr.com/story/14879549/...appearance-of-iu-student?clienttype=printable

http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/stories/2011/06/09/news.629101.sto

Because the reports originate from Salzmann, CR's attorney. These are exaggerations if not untruths, just like the one early on about how Lauren helped CR home.

Sounds as though CR provided a statement to -- but no interview with -- the authorities.

IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #26

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