17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #14

raeann · Apr 2, 2012

LambChop said:
The property was foreclosed on so does the bank own the house???

That would depend on the point of the process they are in, I would guess. Either way, there would have to be a lease of some kind even if it's the bank who holds it....unless they are REALLY incompetent as a property owner OR bank.

jmo

stmarysmead · Apr 2, 2012

TorisMom003 said:
Using your post as simply a jumping off point.

I haven't made it to the end of the thread yet so the following may have already been brought up, not sure.

ABC is the network that has been accused of altering the call with the dispatcher and Zimmerman to reflect a possible racial motive. That video that has been enhanced is not a full viceo of enhancement but simply one frame. If the entire enhanced video shows that the "gashs" on Zimmerman's head can be seen throughout the entire video then why not show the public the entire video? I, personlly, am not willing to accept the one still frame of enhanced video as proof that Zimmerman had gashes and a blood trickle on the back of his head.

MOO

no, it is nbc. i posted the link pages ago.

Velouria · Apr 2, 2012

mikeysmommom said:
A fresh head wound and witness accounts of TM on top of GZ hitting him IMO It makes sense it was inflicted by TM.JMO but how is that putting the horse before the cart?Sounds like they took in the scene and what was said to match what GZ told them.Isn't that how they investigate a crime?

And some witnesses say they saw TM on the ground, with GZ straddling him and pinning his arms. How would that figure into GZ's account?

Again, Mr. Zimmerman could have sustained injuries at some point that night and still been the aggressor. Or not.

2goldfish · Apr 2, 2012

LolaMoon08 said:
Zimmerman's injuries mean nothing to me. I would hope if I had been followed and confronted by a crazy man with a gun, I would at least get in a couple good hits before he killed me.

It still doesn't even remotely answer who put whose hands on who first. The million dollar question and it is my opinion that Zimmerman put his hands on Trayvon first.

Plus, we don't know what injuries Trayvon had. They won't release the autopsy for us to find out. So Trayvon could have had his own injuries.

this...all this what you said....if it had been me instead of trayvon, no one would be here talking about this because I'm a small white female, GZ would be in the pokey where he belongs.

all these facts.... tell them to yourself changing "trayvon martin" to "white female" and you can start to see how absolutely LUDICROUS it is to be doodling about with this stupid self defense idea. JMO IMO MOO :moo:

annalia · Apr 2, 2012

LolaMoon08 said:
So basically 2-3 minutes?

I do not believe for a second that George Zimmerman was ever walking back to his car. I don't think he ever stopped following Trayvon and I do not think that Trayvon attacked Zimmerman from behind.

Nor do I, if he was walking back to his car he would have made it back before he ever hung up with 911.

JMHO

Donjeta · Apr 2, 2012

LambChop said:
And certainly not "You got me" as GZ describes him as saying. You got me sounds as if TM is admitting he did something wrong and deserved to be shot. jmo

Or, "wow, you got me, what a great shot you are!"

w1df10wr · Apr 2, 2012

HiHater said:
I'm not sure, I haven't seen the actual call times listed anywhere. I probably missed it..

GZ on phone from 7:09-7:13
Trayvon on phone from 7:12-7:16

Police arrive 7:17

Trayvon's girlfriend did not hear shots, only the exchange of words and what she thought was a shove...

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2017887566_trayvonmartinfacts02.html -
~At 7:11 p.m., Zimmerman, who was in his truck, spotted Trayvon.~
Zimmerman spent almost two more minutes offering directions to the operator. ~He said he'd meet police by the mailboxes and then, just before hanging up, apparently thought better of it. "Actually, could you have him call me, and I'll tell him where I'm at?" he said three minutes and 50 seconds into the call. At 7:15, he hung up.~

But I've also seen the 7:09 to 7:13 in a different article.

lillygator · Apr 2, 2012

Horace Finklestein said:
That couldn't be more incorrect. There was documented proof of his injuries in the police report and he was treated by EMTs. TM had a colorful history of his own as well, but some people don't want that to weigh in.

Also, I think TM initiated the conversation, not GZ.

which I don't think is fair. There is a reason those twitter and FB accounts were so hastily put to bed.

rotterdam · Apr 2, 2012

HiHater said:
But the SYG law does not prohibit arrest as long as it is done in good faith and with probable cause---just like arrests for every other crime in America.

Saying that the police would be liable for anything if it was later proven to be self-defense is a sweeping assumption IMO, and that is what I meant.

I mean, Trayvon Martin is missing his LIFE, personally I am not too concerned about the person who killed him missing out on those things. From what we know anyway,George Zimmerman is pretty much imprisoned--missing work, not going out, secluded, etc.

JMO MOO IMO

They will have to use another statute for the arrest though and not the SYG. And must have probable cause. Which is tough when a perpetrator claims presumably reasonable fear. You can not exactly measure that since it is very subjective. .

Disguiseduser0308 · Apr 2, 2012

vlpate said:
GZ lost TM once TM started running. After that point, and there's no indication whatsoever GZ knew where Trayvon was throughout the duration of the call. At the end of the call GZ is asked for his address, GZ tells the dispatcher he didn't want to give it because he didn't know where the kid was.

BEM: The dispatcher didn't ask where "they" were moving to. The dispatcher seemed to believe GZ when he gave an affirmative answer to "we don't need you to do that" (follow him). The dispatcher never asked, "are you still following him".

JMO

Thank you! I listened to the call again. I'm still not sure how I feel about it. I guess the next question is.. how did these two meet up if TM was running away and GZ was no longer following?

vlpate · Apr 2, 2012

iluvmua said:
I might have been confused. Sorry

m00c0w said:
Why could he have not just fallen backwards? Zimmerman was still plenty capable of pushing him as he got up, and Martin may have still been fully capable of rolling over. Stop constructing false dichotomies.

I've obviously missed a huge chunk of information. Where is it coming from TM fell backwards, besides the story Tracy Martin gave to media.

LE rolled Trayvon over to perform CPR. When they arrived on the scene, TM was face down with his arms beneath him.

TIA

suzihawk · Apr 2, 2012

RANCH said:
What law did GZ break by following Trayvon?

He didn't break the law but he directly disoberyed instructions from the dispatcher.

And before everyone starts jumping in with how it wasn't a direct command, yada, yada... Anyone with a lick of common sense would have understood exactly what the dispatcher meant. Even a two year old would understand this. I'm not being snarky by saying that either. It sounds exactly how one would talk to a two year old. "You don't need to be doing that, sweetie." And the two year old would understand you meant for them to stop.

MOO

Velouria · Apr 2, 2012

Horace Finklestein said:
That couldn't be more incorrect. There was documented proof of his injuries in the police report and he was treated by EMTs. TM had a colorful history of his own as well, but some people don't want that to weigh in.

Also, I think TM initiated the conversation, not GZ.

BBM

TM is dead. TM didn't have a history of violent behavior. GZ did. Why would I weigh in factors that don't correlate directly to an individual's propensity to commit a violent crime?

Beyond Belief · Apr 2, 2012

The gf said she heard a voice ask 'what are you doing around here' or something to that affect. If that had been answered wouldn't the confrontation been ended at that point? Certainly if GZ had the information right then this wouldn't have escalated.
Just thoughts, I haven't formed any opinions theres too many open ended questions about this case for me.

Dr.Fessel · Apr 2, 2012

m00c0w said:
Why could he have not just fallen backwards? Zimmerman was still plenty capable of pushing him as he got up, and Martin may have still been fully capable of rolling over. Stop constructing false dichotomies.

How is it a false dichotomy when there has been no evidence presented that Zimmerman was ever on his back? In fact from looking at the initial police report and the cop noting grass and water on Zimmerman's back and not noting grass and water on Martins back seems to support Martin was not on his back.

vlpate · Apr 2, 2012

Disguiseduser0308 said:
Thank you! I listened to the call again. I'm still not sure how I feel about it. I guess the next question is.. how did these two meet up if TM was running away and GZ was no longer following?

Bingo! IMO, Trayvon, if he was scared of the stranger behind him, should have run home. Showing up again later makes no sense whatsoever. Big sticking point for me - that and the ear buds falling out of TM's ears disconnecting his phone. :waitasec:

...and his girlfriend not calling him back or 911, knowing her boyfriend was being followed by a strange man and suddenly being disconnected from said boyfriend.

Has to make some sense in order to be believable.

beach · Apr 2, 2012

Concerned Papa said:
Nothing whatsoever false about my question. IF he fell over backwards as you suggest, how did his feet wind up on the sidewalk where GZ's head was being smashed?

I just want to clarify that I was not insinuating in anyway that I feel like you are purposely misleading anyone. I'm just trying to keep everyones' minds open to all possiblities until we are able to have more specific info. Particularly, the autopsy reports and any ballistic forensics reports.

I've been hanging around these parts too long and know how things can change on a dime when we have the info we need to tie up the lingering questions. Just tryin' to keep it real was my only intention! :blowkiss:

That said, I am at work today and irony of all ironies! I am the paralegal for the city attorney and we have 3 police officers who are under investigation for a tasing incident in which the victim died. :cry: And I have no clue of anyone's race yet. I will know in 24 minutes though. I DREAD this.

Dr.Fessel · Apr 2, 2012

m00c0w said:
Why could he have not just fallen backwards? Zimmerman was still plenty capable of pushing him as he got up, and Martin may have still been fully capable of rolling over. < mod snip>.

How is it a false dichotomy when there has been no evidence presented that Martin was ever on his back? In fact from looking at the initial police report and the cop noting grass and water on Zimmerman's back and not noting grass and water on Martins back seems to support Martin was not on his back.

lillygator · Apr 2, 2012

Beyond Belief said:
The gf said she heard a voice ask 'what are you doing around here' or something to that affect. If that had been answered wouldn't the confrontation been ended at that point? Certainly if GZ had the information right then this wouldn't have escalated.
Just thoughts, I haven't formed any opinions theres too many open ended questions about this case for me.

you would think so, I wonder if TM was mad that he was being followed and lost GZ in turn to catch him off guard and confront him?

mikeysmommom · Apr 2, 2012

During the fight With TM,GZ head might have hit the side of the sidewalk where it meets the grass.That might account for the slash in his skull.JMO

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