Found Deceased NH - Celina Cass, 11, Stewartstown, 25 July 2011 # 3 *Arrest*

~n/t~ said:

Do we know for sure nothing of evidentiary value was found in the home or are they just not saying? Have the parents returned to the house? Sorry, I was away Friday and most of yesterday and may have missed it. TIA

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I'm sure that one reason the home has not yielded much is because her DNA would be all over the place since she lived there, as would the SF's DNA (which would also match the male SOs in his family). Even if they suspected the SF/his relatives in some way, the home is full of DNA evidence that would not help them draw further conclusions.

I had a weird thought that I'm sure can easily be dismissed. Still, it occurred to me that it may be possible that the SF was communicating online with Celina from another computer in the home. Could he himself have "lured" her outside, posing as someone else? Obviously if there was only one home computer, then that theory is already shot down. But if there are two, I guess it's always possible.

peace9274 said:

Pensfan... Are you in the psych field? A patient? A nurse?
You seem to know a lot about psych.

I'm a retired psych nurse, after 30+ yrs. I worked in both private & state-run
hospitals. Retired not so much because the age, but had the years vested &
took the State's early retirement incentive package.

I do miss it! Never thought I'd say that... but I do.

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Thanks for your service!! I was all set to go into forensic psyc until I found out that I loved doing experiments, so I have done a lot of reading and shadowing. I really admire that you were in that field for so many years.

Granna6 said:

I'm sure that one reason the home has not yielded much is because her DNA would be all over the place since she lived there, as would the SF's DNA (which would also match the male SOs in his family). Even if they suspected the SF/his relatives in some way, the home is full of DNA evidence that would not help them draw further conclusions.

I had a weird thought that I'm sure can easily be dismissed. Still, it occurred to me that it may be possible that the SF was communicating online with Celina from another computer in the home. Could he himself have "lured" her outside, posing as someone else? Obviously if there was only one home computer, then that theory is already shot down. But if there are two, I guess it's always possible.

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Do we know the details of the SOs' records?

Pensfan said:

Odd or inappropriate choice of words or phases can = thought process disorder.

Blankets on the house and no trespassing signs? Hmmm. Sounds like he may be headed for a LE 'intervention". If he descends into psychosis (if not there already), he will be forcibly taken to the ER, given 10-20 mg of Haldol immediately, admitted, and placed back on antipsychotic meds. (Schizophrenics have a 75% medication noncompliance rate two years after an inpatient discharge. He may not have been on his meds for years.) Perhaps after a LE "intervention", he might be able to help LE find Celina.

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Thanks, Pensfan, for your insightful posts. You're educating me (us) about certain aspects of PS. Our family has dealt with brain injury and another member with psychosis. I've never heard of LE intervention for PS. Does it fit under "danger to himself and others" criteria? My understanding is that adults can refuse meds for psychosis? This was the issue with my 19-year-old nephew who refused. His parents were not allowed to insist (although they found a roundabout way to get him to take them), Still, he eventually resisted taking his meds and finally committed suicide when in the throes of psychotic thinking.

Granna6 said:

Thanks, Pensfan, for your insightful posts. You're educating me (us) about certain aspects of PS. Our family has dealt with brain injury and another member with psychosis. I've never heard of LE intervention for PS. Does it fit under "danger to himself and others" criteria? My understanding is that adults can refuse meds for psychosis? This was the issue with my 19-year-old nephew who refused. His parents were not allowed to insist (although they found a roundabout way to get him to take them), Still, he eventually resisted taking his meds and finally committed suicide when in the throes of psychotic thinking.

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It can. I've attached a very informative document from mentalhealth.vermont.gov.

Also, here is a link to a case I remember reading in college: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11648628. It's from 1996, so I'm browsing right now for more recent information. Sorry, you can probably only see the abstract...I used to have the full text somewhere. If I can find it, I'll scan it.

peace9274 said:

Pensfan... Are you in the psych field? A patient? A nurse?
You seem to know a lot about psych.

I'm a retired psych nurse, after 30+ yrs. I worked in both private & state-run
hospitals. Retired not so much because of age, but had the years vested &
took the State's early retirement incentive package.

I do miss it! Never thought I'd say that... but I do.

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Hurray!! We survived working in psych units without becoming crazy! LOL We have a lot in common. I am verified on websleuths as a psych nurse. Nice to meet you. :seeya:

Granna6 said:

Hopefully, computer forensics will reconstruct her "life" during the days and weeks before she went missing. I'd think they'd be combing over each incoming/outgoing message, chat, posting, etc., and connecting it to the actual IP address and an actual person. Ironic that a computer may have been used to lure her away, and computer forensics may aid in revealing who did the luring.

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It was stated that a lot of LE vehicles went to a house where Celina had been at a sleep over. But IMO it was only because the sleepover was something different in her routine.

I never seriously thought that the SF was involved in her disappearance . With his mental condition, and the FB antics I felt certain that LE would have zeroed in on him at once.MOO The immediate family would all have been questioned very very closely MOO.

I thought --and still do think-- that there is a strong possibility that Celina was abducted from her home by a stranger. What made me think along other lines were the fact that she was supposedly fully dressed with her shoes on at around 9pm. That she reportedly went into chat rooms and stated her age as 18 or 20. That although she was reported to be very frightened of the dark, it is twilight around 9-930 ish up in VT now. She might not have been too fearful to go outside.

What I am trying to say is that she could have been lured outside. MOO

I have not followed this case as closely as some of you so can someone please tell me if it is true that I just read on twitter that the step-dad is now a person of interest?

Granna6 said:

Thanks, Pensfan, for your insightful posts. You're educating me (us) about certain aspects of PS. Our family has dealt with brain injury and another member with psychosis. I've never heard of LE intervention for PS. Does it fit under "danger to himself and others" criteria? My understanding is that adults can refuse meds for psychosis? This was the issue with my 19-year-old nephew who refused. His parents were not allowed to insist (although they found a roundabout way to get him to take them), Still, he eventually resisted taking his meds and finally committed suicide when in the throes of psychotic thinking.

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Oh no. I am saddened to read this. Please accept my sincere condolences.

If LE can excite or anger an unmedicated paranoid schizophrenic, it is likely that they can cause him to become agitated. At this point, they can honestly state that he is a danger to himself and others and they will transport him to an ER. At the ER with all the stimulation, a paranoid schizophrenic will likely remain agitated and uncooperative. The doc will get a court order and have him admitted for 72 hours stating that he is mentally incompetent. A patient does not have to be obviously suicidal or homicidal to be involuntarily admitted. Here is a list of conditions in Table 1.
http://www.psychosocial.com/research/vol.html
After the 72 hours, the psychiatrist or sometimes the ER doc will have to appear in front of the judge to get the patient held for additional days if the patient is still in need of with treatment, but does not agree to treatment/the involuntary admission.

I just got off the phone with a friend of mine who's hubby is a trucker. She said that although he gets hired for lots of different jobs, sometimes he does make the same runs over and over and over again and that he has favorite little hole in the wall restaurants that he goes to every time he passes them and places that are out of the way where he can and does sleep besides just truck stops. I wonder if there are any truckers that use that restaurant and parking lot on a regular basis who may have seen Celina or her sister more than once and knew they were there.

If her computer shows that she was lured outside by someone with a non-local IP, I don't think they would be so heavily searching bodies of water, etc...but perhaps she was lured out or went out to meet someone she knew locally. The fact that she either never changed into pajamas, or got dressed again at some point in the same clothes she was last seen in, seems to point to her having at least left the home on her own, IMO, as it is unlikely a perp would want to be in the house long enough for her to dress again, or that he would come in early enough that she would have still been awake and dressed. JMO

It can't take very long to look up IP addresses, can it? And I can't imagine she was "talking" to dozens of people online.

My guess is either she went out to meet someone she "trusted" or that something happened within the the family and household members. I'm not seeing a total stranger/non-local, as I still think the computer would have to be key and yet LE seems to be sticking very close to her home and anyone from the "outside" surely would have taken her away in a car very quickly.

JMO

cluciano63 said:

If her computer shows that she was lured outside by someone with a non-local IP, I don't think they would be so heavily searching bodies of water, etc...but perhaps she was lured out or went out to meet someone she knew locally. The fact that she either never changed into pajamas, or got dressed again at some point in the same clothes she was last seen in, seems to point to her having at least left the home on her own, IMO, as it is unlikely a perp would want to be in the house long enough for her to dress again, or that he would come in early enough that she would have still been awake and dressed. JMO

It can't take very long to look up IP addresses, can it? And I can't imagine she was "talking" to dozens of people online.

My guess is either she went out to meet someone she "trusted" or that something happened within the the family and household members. I'm not seeing a total stranger/non-local, as I still think the computer would have to be key and yet LE seems to be sticking very close to her home and anyone from the "outside" surely would have taken her away in a car very quickly.

JMO

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I tend to think that if Celina was lured outside it was by someone local. Maybe too much emphasis is being placed on the computer. Maybe it was someone she actaully knew and spoke to in" real life " on a regular basis. If she had a "boyfriend " in real life, I wonder if she would have discussed him with the other girls at the sleepover ? MOO

liz b. said:

I tend to think that if Celina was lured outside it was by someone local. Maybe too much emphasis is being placed on the computer. Maybe it was someone she actaully knew and spoke to in" real life " on a regular basis. If she had a "boyfriend " in real life, I wonder if she would have discussed him with the other girls at the sleepover ? MOO

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I am not hung up on the computer, other than being told that she was on it last time she was seen, and no one has mentioned her being on the phone. If she went out to meet someone, arrangements would have had to have been made at some point. Of course, perhaps she stayed dressed as she already had made an appointment.

Agent99 said:

I have not followed this case as closely as some of you so can someone please tell me if it is true that I just read on twitter that the step-dad is now a person of interest?

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Nothing has been posted here about that.
On whose twitter did you see this?

Granna6 said:

I'm sure that one reason the home has not yielded much is because her DNA would be all over the place since she lived there, as would the SF's DNA (which would also match the male SOs in his family). Even if they suspected the SF/his relatives in some way, the home is full of DNA evidence that would not help them draw further conclusions.

I had a weird thought that I'm sure can easily be dismissed. Still, it occurred to me that it may be possible that the SF was communicating online with Celina from another computer in the home. Could he himself have "lured" her outside, posing as someone else? Obviously if there was only one home computer, then that theory is already shot down. But if there are two, I guess it's always possible.

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Don't lose hope on that! While the SFs DNA would be expected to be everywhere, the relatives are a different story and hopefully are in the VT database. DNA could be done, even though they are relatives. Everyone's DNA is different except identical twins. And even in those cases, over time, as they grow older, their DNA is not always the same. Hair with roots can provide nuclear DNA, as well as blood, urine, bone, tissue, teeth, etc.

I just started following this person on twitter this afternoon and she said that they believe that some of the postings on the computer from Celina are really from the stepdad and he is still posting crazy things on his facebook page. Don't know if this is just a local rumour or not. I will keep checking with this person to find out more.

Agent99 said:

I just started following this person on twitter this afternoon and she said that they believe that some of the postings on the computer from Celina are really from the stepdad and he is still posting crazy things on his facebook page. Don't know if this is just a local rumour or not. I will keep checking with this person to find out more.

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There doesn't appear to be any new activity on his page...except 2 fewer friends than yesterday.

Agent99 said:

I just started following this person on twitter this afternoon and she said that they believe that some of the postings on the computer from Celina are really from the stepdad and he is still posting crazy things on his facebook page. Don't know if this is just a local rumour or not. I will keep checking with this person to find out more.

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The only thing that I have seen change on his facebook is that he has lost 2 more friends. 153 and dropping....

Hello all; I also find this story heartwrenching. An innocent child in a small northern ne idyllic community somehow make it more tragic to me. I think the people here put together the important facts in the case many posts back.
- (orage flag) last reported seen by sf__ reason: not mother?
- (red flag) last computer usage (per members here scrutinizing facebook) a day ((or 2?)) Before reported missing : assuming that prior to that she showed a history of routine usage.
- (red flag)older daughter {big sis} away on sleepover during questionable period :__reason: overly cooincidental opportunity.
- (red flag) new step-family (sf sb) only living with her since october
- (reg flag) new step family relations have unusual occurence of sexual arrest
- (red flag)daughter goes to find out if sister was at friends house (why not phone?) __ reason: was sister suspicious? was someone in the house trying to downplay the need to be alarmed - thus not phoning?
- (red flag) friend is initial one to phone 911 - did she base her judgement off sis's feelings? did sis ask her to phone? -->as was stated earlier the person who phoned 911 holds key 'character witness' type information.
Some people here have mentioned the sf becoming an early-on spokesperson suspicious. I do not find this signals of a 'control' personality, but believe it possible that le themselves may have subtly manipulated him into this: reason: "anythig you say can and will.." the more a (in this case unnamed) suspect talks, the more you may have on him.
Why I believe this is now a murder investigation:
- decreased searches - increased investigation.
- searches in areas only a body would be ( water ).
- asking friends to not speak to media other than "no comment" (if true) could make sense when building up a case against an individual, but could not make sense in trying to find a missing person.
Sorry for the large 1st post, it's all imho. I feel so badly about this case - just looking at the vast wild areas on google maps; there are countless places a criminal could hide evidence. My prayers for CC and those who care for her.

Is there a clear discription of the shoes Celina was wearing or not wearing? TIA.