NH NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - # 8

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When all is said and done, I don't know if there is really enough to write a book about this case.
 
OldSteve said:
When all is said and done, I don't know if there is really enough to write a book about this case.
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BBM

I believe we'll learn, in the due course of time, there IS enough for a book. After all, it's not as though JR doesn't have enough other cases of possible interest to explore for a book; the disappearance of Tara Grinstead comes to mind in this regard.....
 
Archer Mayor could make a fabulous fictional mystery out of this tragic story.
 
After being on this thread and reading all that I have about Maura which is a ton, I have come to the conclusion that....I have no idea what happened to her. She has just disappeared without a trace. :dunno:
 
telemag said:
After being on this thread and reading all that I have about Maura which is a ton, I have come to the conclusion that....I have no idea what happened to her. She has just disappeared without a trace. :dunno:
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I know what you mean. I feel the same way. Let's hope some day she is found and that her family gets some answers.
 
I really hope so too. I kinda feel like I know her after all that I have read about her.

OK here's just a thought I had. I know that the bus driver BA? correct? Anyway from what I read he backed his bus into his driveway and called 911. If I am remembering correctly he went back out to his bus for something. I also recall being said that from where he parked his bus he could still see Maura and her car. OK, so what if after he went back out, Maura came walking down the road and this time asked Butch to use his phone or something to that effect? Does anyone think it possible that things might have gotten out of hand? Maybe something happened between Maura and BA and an arguement ensued? Anyway, just a thought. Certainly isn't going to help, but I just can't seem to get this off my mind.
 
telemag said:
I really hope so too. I kinda feel like I know her after all that I have read about her.

OK here's just a thought I had. I know that the bus driver BA? correct? Anyway from what I read he backed his bus into his driveway and called 911. If I am remembering correctly he went back out to his bus for something. I also recall being said that from where he parked his bus he could still see Maura and her car. OK, so what if after he went back out, Maura came walking down the road and this time asked Butch to use his phone or something to that effect? Does anyone think it possible that things might have gotten out of hand? Maybe something happened between Maura and BA and an arguement ensued? Anyway, just a thought. Certainly isn't going to help, but I just can't seem to get this off my mind.
Click to expand...

Anything is possible, but in my mind, I feel the bus driver was just a witness. Her scent was lost in front of his residence, but I'm not convinced she did not keep on going down that road. Supposedly, dogs don't track that well in cold weather. Also, the glove they used as a scent guide was not something she wore often. In fact, if I recall correctly, her father said she didn't like wearing gloves. So, I'm not satisfied that the scent tracking tells us anything conclusive. She could have ran past his house or accepted a ride, when he was
in the house talking to his wife.
 
telemag said:
I really hope so too. I kinda feel like I know her after all that I have read about her.

OK here's just a thought I had. I know that the bus driver BA? correct? Anyway from what I read he backed his bus into his driveway and called 911. If I am remembering correctly he went back out to his bus for something. I also recall being said that from where he parked his bus he could still see Maura and her car. OK, so what if after he went back out, Maura came walking down the road and this time asked Butch to use his phone or something to that effect? Does anyone think it possible that things might have gotten out of hand? Maybe something happened between Maura and BA and an arguement ensued? Anyway, just a thought. Certainly isn't going to help, but I just can't seem to get this off my mind.
Click to expand...

Anything is possible, but in my mind, I feel the bus driver was just a witness. Her scent was lost in front of his residence, but I'm not convinced she did not keep on going down that road. Supposedly, dogs don't track that well in cold weather. Also, the glove they used as a scent guide was not something she wore often. In fact, if I recall correctly, her father said she didn't like wearing gloves. So, I'm not satisfied that the scent tracking tells us anything conclusive. She could have ran past his house or accepted a ride, when he was
in the house talking to his wife.
 
My opinions only, no facts here:

I personally believe that the tracking dog got it right, and I think that where the scent trail ended is relevant to this case. But I do not consider ANYBODY named to date as a potential person of interest.

I would look for someone who was in their 20's to early 30's at the time of the crime, living off and on in the Jaffrey area, and with a prior criminal record that included violence towards women. I would consider the possibility of a link between the Brianna Maitland and Maura Murray disappearances. Because it was winter and the ground was somewhat frozen in both of these cases, I would look for victims in a well, old mine shaft or cave, or under the floor of a barn. The person who grabbed Maura (and possibly Brianna) has likely performed similar actions before and since. One way to break this case would be to examine any 'failed abductions' in the region from the late 1990's to after 2004 and see if witnesses provided sketches of a suspect. If more than one such incidence is uncovered, compare the suspect sketches.
 
Mr. Noatak said:
My opinions only, no facts here:

I personally believe that the tracking dog got it right, and I think that where the scent trail ended is relevant to this case. But I do not consider ANYBODY named to date as a potential person of interest.

I would look for someone who was in their 20's to early 30's at the time of the crime, living off and on in the Jaffrey area, and with a prior criminal record that included violence towards women. I would consider the possibility of a link between the Brianna Maitland and Maura Murray disappearances. Because it was winter and the ground was somewhat frozen in both of these cases, I would look for victims in a well, old mine shaft or cave, or under the floor of a barn. The person who grabbed Maura (and possibly Brianna) has likely performed similar actions before and since. One way to break this case would be to examine any 'failed abductions' in the region from the late 1990's to after 2004 and see if witnesses provided sketches of a suspect. If more than one such incidence is uncovered, compare the suspect sketches.
Click to expand...

Why do you not suspect the bus driver? Im asking because I have studied this case but not nearly enough to know ALL the information. Has there been any info given that clears him in your opinion?
 
Victory said:
Why do you not suspect the bus driver? Im asking because I have studied this case but not nearly enough to know ALL the information. Has there been any info given that clears him in your opinion?
Click to expand...

My opinions only, no facts here:

The bus driver was fully cooperative with authorities. The bus driver had a wife and mother living at his home, and they both were present in his home on the night of the accident. The bus driver had his wife call the police to report the accident after talking with Maura, even though Maura pleaded with him not to call the police. AFTER the bus left the accident scene, another neighborhood witness saw lights go on and off in Maura's car and a flurry of activity at the rear of the car and ONE person standing at the trunk.

The bus driver, like several other local witnesses, eventually got tired of being endlessly interviewed, called, or otherwise harassed and stopped talking.

You will have to trust me on this one: there is a reason that Maura disappeared where she did. But it had nothing to do with anyone yet named in this most interesting case. Sleuth on good buddy!
 
I believe people who knew the School Bus Driver are convinced he was nothing but a good Samaritan who happened along and tried to help someone at a minor crash scene. If it appears that his rendition of events changed from those initially reported that evening (if they changed at all) then perhaps if was for safety and self-preservation. Maybe someone passed along or hinted to SBD that MM was abducted by a known local (, drug dealer, biker) bad guy or guys and locals are afraid of this person with good reason. If you had vulnerable loved ones in that situation you might consider being a tad more clandestine about your opinions, or perhaps SBD just got sick of being badgered by everyone as to why he didn’t do more for MM at that time. That might lead some to speculate that his behavior was odd… but I don’t think many sense SBD is culpable in any way.

So SBD backs his bus into his driveway, goes inside and asks his domestic partner to call in the accident. He knows that the police will be along and will probably want some information to add to their accident report so… he sits in his bus, fills out his daily trip sheet and waits for LE. If MM had passed by on foot trying to obtain a better cell phone signal, SBD probably would have asked her in for tea. Maybe the abductor(s) snatched MM before SBD got back outside or maybe they drove right past by him?

If the SAR dog lost the trail by SBD’s house it might be because she was in the abductor’s vehicle. It would also depend on whether the SAR dog was a “tracker”, an “air-scenter” or other.

http://science.howstuffworks.com/environmental/life/zoology/mammals/sar-dog2.htm
 
Thanks Unscripted for the link to the SAR dog info - most interesting to read.
 
Mr. Noatak said:
My opinions only, no facts here:

I personally believe that the tracking dog got it right, and I think that where the scent trail ended is relevant to this case. But I do not consider ANYBODY named to date as a potential person of interest.

I would look for someone who was in their 20's to early 30's at the time of the crime, living off and on in the Jaffrey area, and with a prior criminal record that included violence towards women. I would consider the possibility of a link between the Brianna Maitland and Maura Murray disappearances. Because it was winter and the ground was somewhat frozen in both of these cases, I would look for victims in a well, old mine shaft or cave, or under the floor of a barn. The person who grabbed Maura (and possibly Brianna) has likely performed similar actions before and since.

One way to break this case would be to examine any 'failed abductions' in the region from the late 1990's to
after 2004 and see if witnesses provided sketches of a suspect. If more than one such incidence is uncovered, compare the suspect sketches.
Click to expand...

I don't agree that there is a connection between the Brianna Maitland and the Maura Murrays case. However, I do think there is a possibility Maura accepted a ride from a local and that she may have picked up that ride right in front of the bus driver's home.

With the Maitland case, I think someone she knew killed her. That area of Vermont had infiltrators from NYC. They were nasty drug dealers. She crossed paths with some of these men, while partying with her local friends. Maitland also had local enemies. I think Maura was probably taken by a stranger, who was either passing through or lived in the area.
 
Mr. Noatak said:
My opinions only, no facts here:

I personally believe that the tracking dog got it right, and I think that where the scent trail ended is relevant to this case. But I do not consider ANYBODY named to date as a potential person of interest.

I would look for someone who was in their 20's to early 30's at the time of the crime, living off and on in the Jaffrey area, and with a prior criminal record that included violence towards women. I would consider the possibility of a link between the Brianna Maitland and Maura Murray disappearances. Because it was winter and the ground was somewhat frozen in both of these cases, I would look for victims in a well, old mine shaft or cave, or under the floor of a barn. The person who grabbed Maura (and possibly Brianna) has likely performed similar actions before and since. One way to break this case would be to examine any 'failed abductions' in the region from the late 1990's to after 2004 and see if witnesses provided sketches of a suspect. If more than one such incidence is uncovered, compare the suspect sketches.
Click to expand...

BBM

Mr. Noatak,

Long ago (the early 1970's) I lived for a year in Jaffrey; I have not done a Mapquest search yet for the distance between where Maura disappeared and Jaffrey, but I'm guessing it's at least 100 miles each way.

Would you care to share with us another detail or two as to the basis for bringing "The Jaffrey Connection" into play here?

Thank you for a most interesting post!
 
If there is/was a known "bad *advertiser censored**" from the Jaffrey area, how could he be connected to MM's disappearance? Does he just have family ties to Jaffrey and also had a seasonal place elsewhere in VT/NH? Is he a trucker or someone else who is on the road for work purposes -- courier, wood hauler? Is he involved the lively and lucrative I-91 corridor drug trade from Quebec to Boston? Or is he a wealthy trust fund, ski bum party boy?

Is he someone who has a history of violence and who just happened to be around at the time of MM and BM's disappearances in early 2004? If it's known that this person was previously abusive toward women, were those women known to him? or did he troll for victims to "party" with who he later assaulted?

James Renner has posted that be believed MM went to a 2004 New Years party in the Goshen, NH area -- could there be a connection there?
 
McSpy said:
I don't agree that there is a connection between the Brianna Maitland and the Maura Murrays case. However, I do think there is a possibility Maura accepted a ride from a local and that she may have picked up that ride right in front of the bus driver's home.

With the Maitland case, I think someone she knew killed her. That area of Vermont had infiltrators from NYC. They were nasty drug dealers. She crossed paths with some of these men, while partying with her local friends. Maitland also had local enemies. I think Maura was probably taken by a stranger, who was either passing through or lived in the area.
Click to expand...

Agree! As for Bri's case, more can be found at:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6287&page=12
 
Mr. Noatak said:
My opinions only, no facts here:

The bus driver was fully cooperative with authorities. The bus driver had a wife and mother living at his home, and they both were present in his home on the night of the accident. The bus driver had his wife call the police to report the accident after talking with Maura, even though Maura pleaded with him not to call the police. AFTER the bus left the accident scene, another neighborhood witness saw lights go on and off in Maura's car and a flurry of activity at the rear of the car and ONE person standing at the trunk.

The bus driver, like several other local witnesses, eventually got tired of being endlessly interviewed, called, or otherwise harassed and stopped talking.

You will have to trust me on this one: there is a reason that Maura disappeared where she did. But it had nothing to do with anyone yet named in this most interesting case. Sleuth on good buddy!
Click to expand...

Thank you for explaining. I didnt know about the other neighborhood witness reporting activity at the back of the car after the bus had left the scene. Its not easy to gather all important info in the older and full length threads.
 
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