WARNING:GRAPHIC PHOTOS Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox appeals conviction #9

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otto said:
What should I say ... no, Dr Sollecito was coerced by the police ... bopped on the head ... and out popped the information about the phone call and the dinner time. That's what happened.
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That wasn't what Nova was asking. The question is "did his father mention that they had dinner already in that phone call, or just establish that there was a leaky pipe?"
 
Malkmus said:
Well, in English pepproncini is that hot pepper. Maybe that's what she's thinking of and not pepperoni? I dunno...
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The pepperoni reference was mine and I was being flippant. Claudicci merely pointed out that Germans call pepperoni something else and I shouldn't assume Italians use the same word. She was right.

Frankly, I can't tell from google translate which word is more commonly used in Italy.

But I think any 20-year-old American would acquire very quickly the vocabulary necessary to order pizza. I know I would.
 
Malkmus said:
That wasn't what Nova was asking. The question is "did his father mention that they had dinner already in that phone call, or just establish that there was a leaky pipe?"
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Nova and I discussed this for pages and pages on another thread ... it's bait.
 
otto said:
I understand that many are pro-conspiracy ... go for it!
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The one where three people who had at most known each other less than a week conspire to kill a girl together out of lust? That's the only conspiracy I see. Otherwise, there's the well-documented incompetence on the part of police that led to what is probably two wrongful convictions, and is much more common in every part of the world. But that's just bad police work, I don't think they were smart enough to conspire against anyone.
 
otto said:
Of course, that 10' x 11' or 110 square foot bedroom was too small for a murder scene. Hendry said so, so did Dempsey. The prosecutors, defense lawyers and courts haven't said this ... but that doesn't matter ... if Hendry and Dempsey said it, it must be true. I wonder if a murder has ever occurred in a bathroom ... according to Hendry and Dempsey, this is impossible.
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With respect, otto, you are misquoting what was said. I haven't read all of Dempsey, but Hendry's point is that the room is too small for a 3-on-1 gang rape and killing in which two-thirds of the attackers leave no forensic evidence.

Nobody has ever said a murder can't be committed in 110 sf.
 
otto said:
The black arrows show the direction of the blood? I'm not seeing that.
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Where are you getting "direction of blood from"? I think only you can help yourself on this one, Otto.
 
Nova said:
Perhaps you'd care to post a list of which words we can and cannot use. Obviously, we have been unable to satisfy you by choosing our own terms.
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I say pro-guilt applies to Amanda, and you come back with that? Why?

Guilt ... Knox is guilty. Clearly that label doesn't apply to Meredith. Knox is guilty, the debate being whether the verdict is valid ... therefore "pro-guilt" applies to Knox.

If I'm mistaken, please be so kind as to inform me. To whom does the term "pro-guilt" apply ... who is the subject?
 
otto said:
What should I say ... no, Dr Sollecito was coerced by the police ... bopped on the head ... and out popped the information about the phone call and the dinner time. That's what happened.
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I was asking a serious (and, I believe, fair) question, otto: is it your recollection that Dr. S. testified that RS told him they had finished dinner?

I ask because my recollection of the Motivation Report is that Dr. S merely said RS mentioned the spilled water and the Court assumed that water was spilled while the dinner dishes were washed. I remember this because I thought of all the times we wash dinners from the previous meal just before or even while we are cooking the next one; in my house, a spill might only mean we were starting to prepare dinner, not that we had finished it.
 
Malkmus said:
Where are you getting "direction of blood from"? I think only you can help yourself on this one, Otto.
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Aspirated blood presumably has a direction. Hendry adds his big black arrows which I assume he has added to indicate the direction of the aspirated blood. The arrows have little to do with the actual shape of the drops and the direction in which they appear to have landed on the side of the wardrobe. The shape of the blood drops appear to be at a 90 degree angle to the direction of the black arrows.
 
otto said:
Nova and I discussed this for pages and pages on another thread ... it's bait.
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I'm sorry you feel this way. My question is "bait" only in that I am asking whether you are quoting Dr. S' actual testimony or summarizing a conclusion drawn from it. There's no crime in doing the latter, but it is a different thing.
 
Nova said:
I was asking a serious (and, I believe, fair) question, otto: is it your recollection that Dr. S. testified that RS told him they had finished dinner?

I ask because my recollection of the Motivation Report is that Dr. S merely said RS mentioned the spilled water and the Court assumed that water was spilled while the dinner dishes were washed. I remember this because I thought of all the times we wash dinners from the previous meal just before or even while we are cooking the next one; in my house, a spill might only mean we were starting to prepare dinner, not that we had finished it.
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Sure, and then we went on to debate your theory that they ate dinner three times that evening to line up with the changing dinner times given by Amanda. Is it really necessary to rehash the entire debate?
 
otto said:
Aspirated blood presumably has a direction. Hendry adds his big black arrows which I assume he has added to indicate the direction of the aspirated blood. The arrows have little to do with the actual shape of the drops and the direction in which they appear to have landed on the side of the wardrobe. The shape of the blood drops appear to be at a 90 degree angle to the direction of the black arrows.
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Why don't you forget the word "direction" as it's not mentioned in his reasoning for the arrows. The description clearly says the arrows are pointing to the part of the blood which are "hand-markings" which wouldn't be as discernible without the arrows.
 
Malkmus said:
The one where three people who had at most known each other less than a week conspire to kill a girl together out of lust? That's the only conspiracy I see. Otherwise, there's the well-documented incompetence on the part of police that led to what is probably two wrongful convictions, and is much more common in every part of the world. But that's just bad police work, I don't think they were smart enough to conspire against anyone.
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I agree. I have never imagined nor accused ILE of sitting down and deciding to frame an innocent American woman (not even to spite George Bush). I think open and conscious conspiracy is only very rarely the way innocent people are convicted.
 
Malkmus said:
Why don't you forget the word "direction" as it's not mentioned in his reasoning for the arrows. The description clearly says the arrows are pointing to the part of the blood which are "hand-markings" which wouldn't be as discernible without the arrows.
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Then why doesn't he put arrows on all the smeared blood that could be hand-markings?
 
otto said:
I say pro-guilt applies to Amanda, and you come back with that? Why?

Guilt ... Knox is guilty. Clearly that label doesn't apply to Meredith. Knox is guilty, the debate being whether the verdict is valid ... therefore "pro-guilt" applies to Knox.

If I'm mistaken, please be so kind as to inform me. To whom does the term "pro-guilt" apply ... who is the subject?
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Of course, "pro-guilt" applies to belief in the guilt of AK and RS, which is why I don't see your problem with the term. Nobody has ever suggested MK was in any way responsible for her own death; nor should they, IMHO.

It's certainly a more precise term than "pro-justice," which applies to everyone, regardless of their opinion on the verdicts. And more precise than "pro-conspiracy" with regards to ILE, since very few posters have argued such a conspiracy transpired.

This is beginning to feel like a shell game: no matter what term any of us use, you will define it literally and narrowly and complain the proper term is something else.
 
Nova said:
I agree. I have never imagined nor accused ILE of sitting down and deciding to frame an innocent American woman (not even to spite George Bush). I think open and conscious conspiracy is only very rarely the way innocent people are convicted.
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The language barrier prevented them from discussing anything beyond pizza, but they both like sex and drugs. Raffaele was moving to Milan in mid-November and Amanda's one semester study period was ending in Dec. They could have been looking to deepen their communication - which was through a mutual interest in sex and drugs. Raffaele had prior hard drug use. It's conceivable they shut down the phones and decided to score some cocaine or other hard drugs in the square, bumped into Rudy, headed to the cottage and there they found Meredith. It's conceivable that they were getting loaded while Meredith wanted a quiet evening. It's conceivable that Amanda put Rudy up to getting Meredith in on the party, or coming on to her. It's conceivable that things went very wrong.
 
otto said:
Sure, and then we went on to debate your theory that they ate dinner three times that evening to line up with the changing dinner times given by Amanda. Is it really necessary to rehash the entire debate?
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No, you could just answer a simple question. Are you quoting Dr. S or are you deducing a conclusion based on his testimony?

I never argued that they ate 3 times. That was something you invented; quite honesty, I can't remember why, but I assume you believed something I said implied multiple dinners. It did not.
 
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