Deceased/Not Found NY - Etan Patz, 6, New York, 25 May 1979 #2 *P. Hernandez guilty*

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LE is looking at the Garbage Truck Routes, the Bodega and investigating further.

Police spokesman Paul Browne said investigators were retracing garbage truck routes from the late 1970s and deciding whether to search landfills for the boy's remains, a daunting prospect.

Crime scene investigators also arrived Friday morning at the building in Manhattan's SoHo section that once held the bodega where Hernandez worked. Authorities were considering excavating the basement for evidence.

They also were looking into whether Hernandez has a history of mental illness or pedophilia.

Browne said letting Hernandez remain free until the investigation is complete was not an option: "There was no way we could release the man who had just confessed to killing Etan Patz."

http://online.wsj.com/article/AP2aff638823784564b4e1a8793eed985a.html
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Regarding the legal aspect:

According to the New York State Criminal Code, "a person may not be convicted of any offense solely upon evidence of a confession or admission made by him without additional proof that the offense charged has been committed."

New York law on corroboration was written to prevent people from confessing to crimes that never happened, said Daniel Gitner, a partner at Lankler Siffert & Wohl LLP.

Besides the apparent absence of evidence that backs up Mr. Hernandez's statements, the case is wrought with legal pitfalls, including: that his confession came days before the anniversary of the child's disappearance; that others have previously come forward to falsely admit to the crime; and that questions have been raised about the defendant's mental health.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100...396270252.html?mod=WSJ_article_MoreIn_NewYork
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SyraKelly said:
I am curious to know what PH looked like in 1979?
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I just googled around and can't find one (yet). I'd say by tomorrow's Sunday paper that the NY tabloids will have acquired at least one and probably more pictures from back then.
 
wfgodot said:
What could they hope to find by excavating another basement? Even a shirt button torn loose couldn't be proven to have come from Etan's shirt. I don't think Hernandez - if his story is indeed true - buried Etan down there. It was a storage area for a bodega, a going concern, and not a relatively isolated workshop space for a handyman.
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You're more likely right, we know no body to be found and I would think after all these years not even a hair could be found so I'm seeing this as a waste of money and time unless there is more they can find that I don't know of. I'm new at this so my thinking might be very wrong.
 
Wondergirl said:
Some words from the former owner of the bodega, and a possible motive for why PH killed Etan:
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That's chilling! If I was that nephew I'd be really freaked out right now! I wonder if he has anything to say about his relationship with PH over the years.
 
Wondergirl said:
We will have to agree to disagree, WF.

While I agree with you that Etan's body would have "fit" in a garbage sack, a "regular" garbage bag would hold a maximum of 25-35 lbs, max, and there is no way he could have walked that distance without it breaking, IMO, with 50 lbs of weight. I wouldn't bet on that. JMO
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I read that PH put the body into a bag and then put the bag into a box. That might explain why some places have been reporting bag and some reporting box. I wish I had the link to that article but I have read so many over the past few days I don't know which was which anymore!
 
wfgodot said:
I wonder how soon they brought the scent dogs in. If they did do that.

Also, I doubt NYPD has told us all of what it knows about Hernandez and what he has told them. I don't think they're suckers.
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They didn't start a search for Etan until the next day. By that time according to PH the box with the body was already gone. He said he went back to look at it a few hours later and it was gone. I think the trash picked it up that very same day shortly after the crime was committed. There was never any chance of the police finding him under those circumstances.
 
Wondergirl said:
If PH did not put Etan in a box, and he carried him that one block in a bag, what kind of bag? Where did the bag come from? He would have been lugging that bag.

The practicality of carrying the bag with that kind of weight in it required some thought.

Even a box. What sort of box would hold 50 lbs of weight, without breaking through the bottom? It is more weight than one might think.

A body could not be carried in garbage bags that distance, IMO.
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I thought I read some where he put him in a bag and then put the bag into a box
 
Zoe Zo said:
You're more likely right, we know no body to be found and I would think after all these years not even a hair could be found so I'm seeing this as a waste of money and time unless there is more they can find that I don't know of. I'm new at this so my thinking might be very wrong.
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Don't worry, I've done 12,015 posts but my thinking might be very wrong too!
 
NocturnalLady said:
They didn't start a search for Etan until the next day. By that time according to PH the box with the body was already gone. He said he went back to look at it a few hours later and it was gone. I think the trash picked it up that very same day shortly after the crime was committed. There was never any chance of the police finding him under those circumstances.
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Do you have a link for that info? If not, cool, I believe you, no doubts, but it helps to keep track of where the information comes from, MSM-wise.
 
NocturnalLady said:
They didn't start a search for Etan until the next day. By that time according to PH the box with the body was already gone. He said he went back to look at it a few hours later and it was gone. I think the trash picked it up that very same day shortly after the crime was committed. There was never any chance of the police finding him under those circumstances.
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This is what I heard also on my local news. He put him into a bag and then into a box and he left the store - a few hours later when he came back to the store the box was missing.
 
Confusion of detail is pretty par for the course in a new case development as big as this one, particularly in a famous case. NYC is the media nerve center, and a huge amount of reporters are vying for info all at once. They'll all have their sources - at least the ones who regularly cover crime, or who have worked the Patz case, will - and bits and pieces of the story, the flotam and jetsom of the confession, will bob on the waters for some time. Not sure when this picture will come into focus and we will know the real specifics. Takes time, lots depends on when the head honchos of NYPD want the info released.
 
CNN is still saying Hernandez "choked" Etan and "placed his body in the trash about a block and a half away." It doesn't say anything about bags, boxes or other receptacles, but I would guess that in order to transport the body "a block and a half," it would have to be concealed in something first. Even if SoHo was the sleepy neighborhood in the 70's they keep saying it was, nobody was going to carry an unconcealed dead child for "a block and a half" without someone noticing. I hope... :(

http://edition.cnn.com/2012/05/25/justice/new-york-etan-patz/index.html?hpt=hp_t3

ETA the link to the CNN article.
 
Hi Everyone,

I am not too familiar with this case, but the question that I have, is what evidence has been collected that points to Mr. Hernandez as Etan's suspected killer and NOT Jose Ramos? I always thought over the years based on circumstantial evidence that Mr. Ramos was the perpetrator. But is it true that Mr. Ramos always maintained his innocence?

Satch
 
Satch said:
Hi Everyone,

I am not too familiar with this case, but the question that I have, is what evidence has been collected that points to Mr. Hernandez as Etan's suspected killer and NOT Jose Ramos? I always thought over the years based on circumstantial evidence that Mr. Ramos was the perpetrator. But is it true that Mr. Ramos always maintained his innocence?

Satch
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No, Ramos has actually confessed to the crime at one point, maybe more than once. I don't think there's any real evidence linking either man to the crime, other than the fact that Ramos was dating Etan's babysitter at one time. As for Hernandez, there doesn't seem to be evidence at all. He did live in the neighborhood and did work in the bodega, but everything else hinges on his confession, I think?

It's very mysterious to me. I'm assuming there is information not yet made public by the NYPD, and I do hope we hear more about it soon. I think it was wfgodot who said something earlier about being 65-35 in terms of believing in Hernandez's guilt, and I'm feeling about that way myself right now...
 
Satch said:
Hi Everyone,

I am not too familiar with this case, but the question that I have, is what evidence has been collected that points to Mr. Hernandez as Etan's suspected killer and NOT Jose Ramos? I always thought over the years based on circumstantial evidence that Mr. Ramos was the perpetrator. But is it true that Mr. Ramos always maintained his innocence?

Satch
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Ramos was alleged to have "been on the verge" of confessing to LE. He toyed with them. Since he's been incarcerated - other than LE alluding to his having confessed certain "details" to cons planted in his cell in order to get information - he has maintained his innocence. He is a convicted child predator and his knowledge of the area - a former girlfriend worked for the Patzes; he evidently knew Etan's bus route; he allegedly worked with Othneil Miller in the basement workshop on Prince Street - made (or makes) him a likely suspect.

But none of it added up to Ramos's ever having been a child killer. He lost the civil case filed against him in the matter, but the burden of proof in those cases is quite lower than that of a criminal felony trial. In all the 33 years since Etan disappeared, the state has never filed criminal charges against Ramos, in spite of the millions spent on solving the Patz case, much of it directed toward investigating Jose Ramos.
 
Flossie JMO said:
Not sure if this has been posted, it's an informative and very very sad older article:

http://m.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyl...d-disappearance?cat=lifeandstyle&type=article
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Thanks for the link to that, Flossie. The author of the article is Lisa Cohen. She also wrote the book I read last summer about the case called After Etan. She's spoken to the Patzes in the last few days and then talked to the media.

The article you linked is a good synopsis of the case as it developed. I'd posted earlier in the thread about what I remembered from the book, but I wasn't clear on some of the details. This was a good refresher!
 
WSJ article on trash pickup in 1979 and other issues involving Hernandez's statement regarding where he disposed of Etan's body:

Missing Body Is Big Mystery In Patz Case
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New York City Sanitation Department spokeswoman Kathy Dawkins declined to answer questions about SoHo's trash pickup schedule in 1979 and wouldn't say whether records still exist on specific garbage routes and the material that was picked up.

"The Sanitation Department is fully cooperating with the police in their investigation," she said.

Etan went missing on the Friday before Memorial Day weekend. Ms. Dawkins wouldn't say what day pickup was scheduled.

"New Yorkers throw out heavy stuff all the time," said a sanitation-industry expert who asked not to be named because of the sensitivity of the case. In 1979, before the adoption of recycling programs, "it was all big black bags—heavy black bags. It's not at all a stretch for a container to have 50, 75 pounds of material in it. You've got a worker who's picking up hundreds of stops in a night."
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much more, interesting stuff, at link above
 
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