WARNING:GRAPHIC PHOTOS Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox appeals conviction #9

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SMK said:
why were they disbelieved when they said they were home? what is wrong with turning off one's cell phones (to eat, to have sex)---why were their 2 computer hard drives damaged by police? how could Raffaele know for a fact where Amanda was if he were fast asleep? i still think the police harrassed them---why did SO much of the original theory fall apart....why did they make such a thing over Amanda texting "see you later" to Patrick. the whole thing is very shaky...:(
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When did they eat dinner?
 
SMK said:
don't know, but the sleeves being turned inside out suggest M was wearing it, and got "dragged out of it"---
I know you do not like Hendry, but let us just forget about "the old coot" as they call him at PMF, and look to what he is saying:
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<snipped>

So you don't know what eye witnesses said Meredith was wearing on the night she was murdered, but you take the word of some retired guy in another country that she was out on a cold November evening in Italy wearing nothing but a thin blue hoody?

Come on now ... are you looking for facts, or looking to promote opinions of people unrelated to the case?
 
otto said:
<snipped>

So you don't know what eye witnesses said Meredith was wearing on the night she was murdered, but you take the word of some retired guy in another country that she was out on a cold November evening in Italy wearing nothing but a thin blue hoody?

Come on now ... are you looking for facts, or looking to promote opinions of people unrelated to the case?
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I am looking for FACTS. I would be RELIEVED if i came to believe in the guilt of AK and RS---one less thing to feel bad about. I cannot seem to find facts which convince me, and I am suspicious of the prosecution NOT because they are Italian (1/2 of my biological family lives in Italy) but because they are the prosecution (too much watching American Justice has disenchanted me, i now fear the law)... OK, whose bloody jacket is it? why did they not try to say it was Amanda's? whose jacket is it?:banghead:
 
OTTO: Again, let us forget the old retired coot behind these words. Just please counter them for me, so that i may believe....

"It is obvious that this attack was the work of one enraged man, who acted entirely alone," says Hendry. He explains that in such a tiny space, the presence of multiple attackers would have been easy to detect, because they could not have avoided stepping in blood. They would also have blocked some of the blood spatter that ended up on the floor and on the door of the wardrobe closet.




In reconstructing the murder, Hendry also uncovered a stunning forensic blunder made by police. "I determined that blood stains found under the bed, 47 days after the crime, could not have been deposited when Meredith was killed, because there were objects in the way."

The police knew this, says Hendry, but they made a fundamental mistake in their analysis. They concluded that the objects were put there after the murder to cover those blood stains, as part of a staging activity. But Hendry's analysis revealed that the truth is quite different.

"The police created these bloodstains themselves," he says. "Photos show that they ransacked the room after the murder, and they carelessly tossed a pair of blood-soaked boots under the bed with other footwear.
 
SMK said:
how could they recall that when they were questioned on Nov 5? I cannot even recall what/when i ate 2 days ago.....
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They recalled that they ate dinner in the time period between 8:45 and 1 AM. That's was their story. The facts, supported by independent evidence, is that they ate dinner while Amelie was playing on the computer. In fact, their dinner times of 9:30, 10, and 11 were all proven untrue by Dr Sollecito, who testified that they had finished dinner and clean up prior to the 8:42 phone call.

Since this was a murder investigation, and an alibi was of utmost importance, Raffaele and Amanda should have been able to remember whether the ate dinner before or after the suitcase woman stopped by, and before, during, or after the Amelie movie. There were other events that had specific times that they could have used to pinpoint when they ate dinner. Instead, they gave incorrect times that could be viewed as an attempt to explain the time during which the murder occurred.
 
otto said:
Are you suggesting that if the victim was Algerian and the convicted was Bulgarian, you would be writing about convicted murderer as the victim?
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I would not have had the initial interest sparked. Yes, Amanda being young, pretty, American caught my (and millions of others) attention. But I originally assumed she was guilty. For a long, long time, in fact. I felt her parents had better "own up" to the damage their divorce must have done to the poor girl. I even wrote a long essay about her possibly being molested, and Meredith being the stand in for the perpetrator. I have disclaimed it, here http://musingsinobamasamerica.blogspot.com/2009/03/felled-by-inner-demons-amanda-knox-s.html But if you were to begin to show me that Rudy was framed, and could not possibly be guilty, I would be very up in arms for him.
 
otto said:
They recalled that they ate dinner in the time period between 8:45 and 1 AM. That's was their story. The facts, supported by independent evidence, is that they ate dinner while Amelie was playing on the computer. In fact, their dinner times of 9:30, 10, and 11 were all proven untrue by Dr Sollecito, who testified that they had finished dinner and clean up prior to the 8:42 phone call.

Since this was a murder investigation, and an alibi was of utmost importance, Raffaele and Amanda should have been able to remember whether the ate dinner before or after the suitcase woman stopped by, and before, during, or after the Amelie movie. There were other events that had specific times that they could have used to pinpoint when they ate dinner. Instead, they gave incorrect times that could be viewed as an attempt to explain the time during which the murder occurred.
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OKIE, if true, strike one against them......but I still have a MOUNTAIN of unsettled thoughts and doubts regarding a ton of other stuff :(
 
SMK said:
I am looking for FACTS. I would be RELIEVED if i came to believe in the guilt of AK and RS---one less thing to feel bad about. I cannot seem to find facts which convince me, and I am suspicious of the prosecution NOT because they are Italian (1/2 of my biological family lives in Italy) but because they are the prosecution (too much watching American Justice has disenchanted me, i now fear the law)... OK, whose bloody jacket is it? why did they not try to say it was Amanda's? whose jacket is it?:banghead:
Click to expand...

If you're looking for facts, why do you believe the opinion of a guy that wasn't there? No one is saying that the thin blue hoodie didn't belong to Meredith. The retired guy is claiming that this is what Meredith wore as a winter coat on a cold November evening in Italy. He claims that she was murdered shortly after arriving at home because a thin, blue, blood covered hoodie was on the floor. That's not logical ... that's manipulating information to fix a time that suits him.

I don't know what Meredith was wearing that night, and haven't seen any information from the British friends about what coat she was wearing. How can the retired guy know what Meredith was wearing and then wrap a timeline around something he made up?
 
otto said:
If you're looking for facts, why do you believe the opinion of a guy that wasn't there? No one is saying that the thin blue hoodie didn't belong to Meredith. The retired guy is claiming that this is what Meredith wore as a winter coat on a cold November evening in Italy. He claims that she was murdered shortly after arriving at home because a thin, blue, blood covered hoodie was on the floor. That's not logical ... that's manipulating information to fix a time that suits him.

I don't know what Meredith was wearing that night, and haven't seen any information from the British friends about what coat she was wearing. How can the retired guy know what Meredith was wearing and then wrap a timeline around something he made up?
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well, maybe it being blood soaked, with its sleeves turned inside out aroused his suspicion. Would Meredith be likely to leave a jacket with its sleeves thus? :waitasec:
 
SMK said:
OTTO: Again, let us forget the old retired coot behind these words. Just please counter them for me, so that i may believe....

"It is obvious that this attack was the work of one enraged man, who acted entirely alone," says Hendry. He explains that in such a tiny space, the presence of multiple attackers would have been easy to detect, because they could not have avoided stepping in blood. They would also have blocked some of the blood spatter that ended up on the floor and on the door of the wardrobe closet.




In reconstructing the murder, Hendry also uncovered a stunning forensic blunder made by police. "I determined that blood stains found under the bed, 47 days after the crime, could not have been deposited when Meredith was killed, because there were objects in the way."

The police knew this, says Hendry, but they made a fundamental mistake in their analysis. They concluded that the objects were put there after the murder to cover those blood stains, as part of a staging activity. But Hendry's analysis revealed that the truth is quite different.

"The police created these bloodstains themselves," he says. "Photos show that they ransacked the room after the murder, and they carelessly tossed a pair of blood-soaked boots under the bed with other footwear.
Click to expand...

The bedroom, which is something like 10 x 11 feet, has a pool of blood in the small corner of the room near the wardrobe and I assume more blood under the duvet. Why does the retired guy think that because there is a pool of blood (approximately 2 x 2 square feet) in the corner of the room that it was necessary for the three people to walk in that blood during the murder?

knoxdimensionblood.jpg


Rudy clearly had blood on his shoes because his prints go directly from the blood out the front door. Raffaele had blood on his bare foot, and experts have identified his print on the bath mat. Amanda's seems to have had blood (or fruit juice with haematic substance) on her bare foot and her foot print was found in the hallway. It seems that Rudy stepped in the blood while wearing shoes, and the other two stepped in the blood while barefoot.

Hendry jumps to all sorts of conclusions about what Meredith was wearing, the time of the murder, who did what in the room, that everyone walked into the corner of the room to get blood on their shoes, that the room was not large enough for three people to commit murder, that blood spatter goes in some direction even though it appears to go in a different direction. He's a nut ... a retired guy with nothing to do so he pretends to be an expert in crime scene analysis and injects himself in a murder investigation in a foreign country. Because he says what the Knox family want him to say, they have decided that a retired accident reconstructionist is now a crime scene analyst.
 
SMK said:
well, maybe it being blood soaked, with its sleeves turned inside out aroused his suspicion. Would Meredith be likely to leave a jacket with its sleeves thus? :waitasec:
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The inside-out is not the point. Hendry claims that this thin hoodie is what Meredith was wearing when she arrived at home; that she was not wearing a coat. He then concludes that even though it was a drafty cottage and a cold night, if she was wearing the hoodie then it meant that she had just arrived at home. That's nonsense.
 
otto said:
The bedroom, which is something like 10 x 11 feet, has a pool of blood in the small corner of the room near the wardrobe and I assume more blood under the duvet. Why does the retired guy think that because there is a pool of blood (approximately 2 x 2 square feet) in the corner of the room that it was necessary for the three people to walk in that blood during the murder?

knoxdimensionblood.jpg


Rudy clearly had blood on his shoes because his prints go directly from the blood out the front door. Raffaele had blood on his bare foot, and experts have identified his print on the bath mat. Amanda's seems to have had blood (or fruit juice with haematic substance) on her bare foot and her foot print was found in the hallway. It seems that Rudy stepped in the blood while wearing shoes, and the other two stepped in the blood while barefoot.

Hendry jumps to all sorts of conclusions about what Meredith was wearing, the time of the murder, who did what in the room, that everyone walked into the corner of the room to get blood on their shoes, that the room was not large enough for three people to commit murder, that blood spatter goes in some direction even though it appears to go in a different direction. He's a nut ... a retired guy with nothing to do so he pretends to be an expert in crime scene analysis and injects himself in a murder investigation in a foreign country. Because he says what the Knox family want him to say, they have decided that a retired accident reconstructionist is now a crime scene analyst.
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Well, I give you credit, Otto. You have gone to great lengths to counter-argue, and I will take all you have said well under advisement. I think a remaining problem, is that the Lone Wolf theory is so banal, common, and in line with what actually occurs quite often . I have already said that I suspect perhaps AK and RS had something to do with Rudy going over there, and most likely the 2 arrived and saw Meredith's body far earlier than they say ---there is indeed something a bit "off" with those 2, but I believe that Mignini may have elevated this weirdness extravagantly, to the status of a 3 on 1 murder conspiracy, which may have taken intuition way too far. Am looking over all you have said....BTW, Hendry being retired makes me at least trust that he has the time to put in to investigating, and he is not a layman, IMO---I have never in my life been asked to look at photos and surmise what has occurred. He was paid to do that for decades. So he is a forensics specialist in a way that I am not....thank you once more for the above, which i am poring over intensely: Q: what about the glass of water and the envelope---could 4 people scuffle in the room without disturbing? what of blood spatter on AK and RS---there would have to be some, did police check their laundry?
 
otto said:
The inside-out is not the point. Hendry claims that this thin hoodie is what Meredith was wearing when she arrived at home; that she was not wearing a coat. He then concludes that even though it was a drafty cottage and a cold night, if she was wearing the hoodie then it meant that she had just arrived at home. That's nonsense.
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OKIE....:waitasec:
 
Rudy clearly had blood on his shoes because his prints go directly from the blood out the front door. Raffaele had blood on his bare foot, and experts have identified his print on the bath mat. Amanda's seems to have had blood (or fruit juice with haematic substance) on her bare foot and her foot print was found in the hallway. It seems that Rudy stepped in the blood while wearing shoes, and the other two stepped in the blood while barefoot.(posted by Otto)--
Why the bare feet, in your opinion? would that seem to point to a clean up merely, possibly? It comes to my mind. How do they know WHEN AK and RS prints were made? She did live there, and that is problematic. It could have been from anytime after the murder, surely? and perhaps even before? did the police and investigative team track blood and that got mixed with their footprints from another time? what about the assertion that the print is NOT conclusively Raffaele's???
 
otto said:
(snip)He's a nut ... a retired guy with nothing to do so he pretends to be an expert in crime scene analysis and injects himself in a murder investigation in a foreign country. Because he says what the Knox family want him to say, they have decided that a retired accident reconstructionist is now a crime scene analyst.
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These are bold statements, Otto. On what facts are you basing any of this? Or is it just all your personal opinion? It seems to be a recurring pattern that anyone in the media who criticizes the prosecution's argument is attacked with ad hominem.
 
otto said:
If you're looking for facts, why do you believe the opinion of a guy that wasn't there? No one is saying that the thin blue hoodie didn't belong to Meredith. The retired guy is claiming that this is what Meredith wore as a winter coat on a cold November evening in Italy. He claims that she was murdered shortly after arriving at home because a thin, blue, blood covered hoodie was on the floor. That's not logical ... that's manipulating information to fix a time that suits him.

I don't know what Meredith was wearing that night, and haven't seen any information from the British friends about what coat she was wearing. How can the retired guy know what Meredith was wearing and then wrap a timeline around something he made up?
Click to expand...

From the judge's report:

at around 9 pm Meredith and
Sophie Purton had left.
She remembered that Meredith, that afternoon, was wearing a pair of rather loose
blue jeans, fabric gym shoes, and a light blue sweatshirt with a zip fastener.
Underneath she had a long-sleeved T-shirt and over this a top. She carried a cream-
coloured bag with a long shoulder strap.
Click to expand...

DNA of Rudy Guede was [30] also found on the cuff of Meredith's sweatshirt found
in her room
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Malkmus said:
These are bold statements, Otto. On what facts are you basing any of this? Or is it just all your personal opinion? It seems to be a recurring pattern that anyone in the media who criticizes the prosecution's argument is attacked with ad hominem.
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I must admit, I agree - I fail to see where Hendry is any kind of "nut". nor that he is a mere mouth-piece for the Knox family----1. there is no shame in being retired 2. He has had a long and distinguished career in re-enactment....and Otto, why was there no blood found via Luminol in Sollecito's apt.?
 
Malkmus said:
From the judge's report:at around 9 pm Meredith and
Sophie Purton had left.
She remembered that Meredith, that afternoon, was wearing a pair of rather loose
blue jeans, fabric gym shoes, and a light blue sweatshirt with a zip fastener.
Underneath she had a long-sleeved T-shirt and over this a top. She carried a cream-
coloured bag with a long shoulder strap.
Click to expand...
OK, so we DO know:great: but what troubles me is the way the investigators seem to rule out the prints being there from another time, or transfer contamination accounting for some of them....
 
SMK said:
OK, so we DO know:great:
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And from Rudy's DNA found on the cuff we can bet she was wearing it when she was attacked by him. Meredith also never got a chance to finish her laundry sitting in the machine, nor complete a call to her mother. All evidence that she was not attacked hours after she got home.
 
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