NJ - Sean Goldman: Abducted and living in Brazil UPDATE: Coming Home

Linda7NJ said:

If the boy was being raised by this man for the last 5 years, he is the boy's psychological father IMO

The boy's best interest needs to be put first.

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i understand your point, but this could really start to muddy the waters. if someone kidnaps a child and treats the child as their own, and the child believes the kidnapper is their parent, and thinks the kidnappers children are their siblings.......does this mean that if the child is tracked down, they should NOT return to bio parents who have been seaching for years for their child?

in this case, i think that custody should go to the bio father, but hopefully some sort of arrangement can be made to keep in contact with his siblings.

tracy87 said:

i understand your point, but this could really start to muddy the waters. if someone kidnaps a child and treats the child as their own, and the child believes the kidnapper is their parent, and thinks the kidnappers children are their siblings.......does this mean that if the child is tracked down, they should NOT return to bio parents who have been searching for years for their child?

in this case, i think that custody should go to the bio father, but hopefully some sort of arrangement can be made to keep in contact with his siblings.

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I honestly think in any situation, the needs of the child should be put first. Children aren't possessions and their voice should be heard.

Linda7NJ said:

I honestly think in any situation, the needs of the child should be put first. Children aren't possessions and their voice should be heard.

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I don't have a link but I recall reading that the little boy did not want to leave Brazil. I think it could be traumatic for him to be uprooted and placed in another home--even if it is with his birth father.

Columbo said:

I don't have a link but I recall reading that the little boy did not want to leave Brazil. I think it could be traumatic for him to be uprooted and placed in another home--even if it is with his birth father.

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I think it would have been best if they could have worked out getting to know each other again by frequent visitations and then when he feels secure enough to live with his dad he could visit the stepdad's family. But I guess if they were cooperative and trusting/ trustworthy enough to work things out this way the poor little boy would never have been separated from his father for so long.

Columbo said:

I don't have a link but I recall reading that the little boy did not want to leave Brazil. I think it could be traumatic for him to be uprooted and placed in another home--even if it is with his birth father.

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This is not just a 'birth father'. This man is daddy. He raised that little boy from birth to 4 years old. I have a 4 year old - her daddy is her daddy for life. On what planet would a step parent ever have rights over a childs mom or dad??? Yes, there will be some adjustment, but children are amazingly resilient & his daddy will do what is best for him. It is just plain WIERD that this step father wants to keep the child. When I first heard of this story, my thought was there may have been some abuse - why would a grown man want to fight to keep another man's child? The Grandparent angle makes sense. If the step-parent is not molesting this child, that is the only explanaition that makes any sense.

Linda7NJ said:

Ok...I hope I don't get flamed but..........

Has anyone heard what the kid has to say on the subject now?

I agree the boy should have been reunited with his father immediately after his mother died. BUT, he wasn't. That was 5 LONG years ago.

Perhaps.... the child is securely bonded to his step father and half-sibling and doesn't want to be returned to the USA. If that's the case, I would hope the father would love him enough to leave him there and work toward some sort of visitation. I would think that would be in the boy's best interest.

I have only heard one side of the story....the biological fathers.

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I can't remember the exact wording, but the right to parent our own children is protected by the constitution. I'm sorry and it might sound harsh, but we're given our children by God and not the government and even if the boy has formed a strong bond with the step parent, he should be with his father. I think it would be more damaging in the long run if he's not allowed to have a relationship with his father.

tracy87 said:

i understand your point, but this could really start to muddy the waters. if someone kidnaps a child and treats the child as their own, and the child believes the kidnapper is their parent, and thinks the kidnappers children are their siblings.......does this mean that if the child is tracked down, they should NOT return to bio parents who have been seaching for years for their child?

in this case, i think that custody should go to the bio father, but hopefully some sort of arrangement can be made to keep in contact with his siblings.

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This is an excellent post and ITA. The law is supposed to protect the rights of a parent to raise their own child unless the child would be at risk of abuse by the bio parent.The bio dad is not unfit and perfectly capable of helping his son get through the difficult and traumatic ordeal of leaving his step-father. It's really not rational to protect a child from all of life's ordeals and stresses, our biggest job is preparing them for adulthood, which isn't always fair or pretty.

Linda7NJ said:

If the boy was being raised by this man for the last 5 years, he is the boy's psychological father IMO

The boy's best interest needs to be put first.

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I respectfully disagree. The child's primary bond and attachment from birth was with his bio father and it was a secure and positive attachment.
That is a strong reason for him to be returned if you are familiar with attachment theory.

However, further separation from his sibling could be traumatic but I feel he should be with his bio-dad. The bio-dad can work out visitation in the US for the sibling.

LovingTheChaos said:

This is not just a 'birth father'. This man is daddy. He raised that little boy from birth to 4 years old. I have a 4 year old - her daddy is her daddy for life. On what planet would a step parent ever have rights over a childs mom or dad??? Yes, there will be some adjustment, but children are amazingly resilient & his daddy will do what is best for him. It is just plain WIERD that this step father wants to keep the child. When I first heard of this story, my thought was there may have been some abuse - why would a grown man want to fight to keep another man's child? The Grandparent angle makes sense. If the step-parent is not molesting this child, that is the only explanaition that makes any sense.

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Oh wow--I do apologize. I thought that the mom took the boy when he was just a small baby to Brazil and never came back--my error. :doh:

I didn't mean "birth father" in a derogatory way--I know he's been fighting just to see his son for years now.

As far as my previous statement that the boy wished to remain in Brazil--it sounds like he was being coaxed or manipulated by his stepfather. The following is part of the judge's ruling from an article from globalpost.com:

He also refuted what has recently been the Brazilian family’s main argument: that Sean wants to stay in Brazil. “Sean is not capable of deciding what he really wants,” reads the decision [this is my quick translation], “either because of the inherent limitations of maturity at his tender age, or because of the fragility of his emotional state, or because he has been subject to the process of parental alienation by the Brazilian family.” It goes on to note that in an evaluation by a team of psychologists, Sean’s initial response to the question of where he wants to live was actually “Tanto faz.” (That’s Portuguese for “Whatever.&#8221 Questioned again by his mother's family's representative on the team, he said he preferred to stay in Brazil, according to the ruling.

http://www.globalpost.com/notebook/brazil/090603/sean-goldman-case-child-ordered-return-us-no-strike

CHICANA said:

This is an excellent post and ITA. The law is supposed to protect the rights of a parent to raise their own child unless the child would be at risk of abuse by the bio parent.The bio dad is not unfit and perfectly capable of helping his son get through the difficult and traumatic ordeal of leaving his step-father. It's really not rational to protect a child from all of life's ordeals and stresses, our biggest job is preparing them for adulthood, which isn't always fair or pretty.

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i agree. the argument that the child should be allowed to stay with the stepfather because "its the only father he has known for the past five years" could really set a dangerous precedent. being a "good parent" cannot ever justify kidnapping a child and depriving them from their bio parents.


this could open the door for "kidnappers" (in any sense of the word, family abductions, stranger abductions) to argue...i have been the only parent the victim has known, so i should keep custody.

also...very good point...raising children isnt always about shielding them from difficulties, but rather empowering them with the strengths and resources to cope with life.

David Goldman appeared on GMA Friday morning upon his heartbreaking return from Brazil, without his son. Poor guy

From what's being said, this man has had senators and even the President of the United States speak up for him. I honestly don't know what else he can do. It appears the boy's step-father has more political pull than even President Obama. At least in So. America.

Personally, I hope Mr. Goldman doesn't give up. It's his son and that step-father and grandparents need to get over it. The child belongs with his dad.

JMHO
fran

PS.....FWIW, my sis has been there and done that, more than 30 years ago in So America, (Peru). It took a private detective two years to find out where her ex had gone after he kidnapped her daughter from day-care. As she knew his parents had a lot of $$ and could out-spend her in the courts, she tried to get her daughter back by picking her up off the street. She was caught and threatened with jail if she didn't shut-up and go home. Her ex ended up leaving her daughter with his parents to be raised while he took up with a new family and had more kids. At the end of the day, my sis was contacted by her daughter who now lives in Florida and is a school teacher, married with a daughter. The ironic thing is, my sis found out her ex was living within 5 miles of her So. Calif home for 20 years or so. {crazy}.....I think it's a *power* thing........fran





http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=7760924&page=1

Battling Brazil: The Fight to Bring a Kidnapped Boy Home

David Goldman's Hopes to Bring Son Home from Brazil Dashed Once Again

<<<<<<<<<<<article and video at link>>>>>>>>>>>>

Elphaba said:

OMG!!!! Brazil's Progressive Party has succeeded in stopping this child from being rightfully given back to his father!

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/03/nyregion/03brazil.html?ref=nyregion

Quote from his dad, in the article:

Reached at a Rio hotel late Tuesday, Mr. Goldman called the Supreme Court stay &#8220;heartbreaking and disgraceful.&#8221;

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Thanks for updating this thread! Since this "stay" I have only been posting over at the BSH forum. I'm outraged that this happened, but not surprised.

lizzybeth said:

I've only recently been following this case. Can someone tell my why the step-father refuses to let Sean's father have him? Is he claiming emotional attachment or what? It just seems absolutely ridiculous if you love this child that you would want to keep him from his biological father who has wanted to be a part of his life since he was born.

Is it a power thing?

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The step-father is claiming "socio-affective parent" - meaning that they have 'bonded'. Sean's mother was only married to the stepfather for 10 months prior to her death in August 2008. They dated for a while prior to marrying and it is even rumored they may have had a relationship prior to her abducting Sean to Brazil.

The Lins e Silva's (the step fathers family) is a very powerful family of attorneys and politicians. I thing the step father is the front man for appeasing the grandmother.

opme said:

Ok I have sent an email resquesting intervention again by the state department, President Obama, and the government to resolve this once and for all.. I emailed from the top down to a local level.. and In the process was allalled to see the my state doesnt have anyone on the missing child or abducted children committee. grr.

I think brazils argument that removing Sean would be illegal is assinine as he was illegally removed from his family, home and country of origin years ago.. and that if he had been returned then there would be no question of legality now

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Thanks OPME for the support! We all need to be contacting our representatives right on up to the White House. This has to stop! There are more than 70 US children that are being harbored in Brazil alone (50+ families). Brazil needs to step-up and do the right thing!

Linda7NJ said:

Ok...I hope I don't get flamed but..........

Has anyone heard what the kid has to say on the subject now?

I agree the boy should have been reunited with his father immediately after his mother died. BUT, he wasn't. That was 5 LONG years ago.

Perhaps.... the child is securely bonded to his step father and half-sibling and doesn't want to be returned to the USA. If that's the case, I would hope the father would love him enough to leave him there and work toward some sort of visitation. I would think that would be in the boy's best interest.

I have only heard one side of the story....the biological fathers.

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Linda, I won't flame you, but after reading your other posts on this thread, I will say I respectfully disagree with you. Sean was interviewed by 3 psychologists that said it is in his best interest to be with his father in the US. They said it is obvious that he suffers from Parental Alientation (brainwashing). This "family" has tried to make Sean believe that his Dad abandoned him, doesn't love him, hasn't tried to see him, nor contact him....it's ALL LIES!!! They even went as far as to say that Sean no longer speaks English. He does!

Sean was four years old when his mother (Bruna) abducted him to Brazil under the pretense of a vacation. She had no plans of returning with him. His father, David, has also been suffering and battling to get his son back for 5 LONG YEARS! Let's not forget the initial 4 years that he spent with is loving father in New Jersey. FWIW, the half sister (Chiara) is only 10 months old.

Sean has told the psychologists "whatever" in response to does he want to stay in Brazil or go back to the US. He also told them that it was up to the judge because he's the boss. Not to mention, the family paid for psychologist, kept pushing him to choose - Brazil or the US - 7 times after looking at the family member that was present, he chose Brazil. This is a child that suffers from Parental Alienation. The court appointed pyschologists also stated that Sean would suffer no damage by relocating to New Jersey.

As well, this child should have been returned to the US, to his biological father, 5 years ago. According to the Hague Convention, Brazil should have returned him within 6 weeks.

I would hate to think that if someone took my son (or yours) and fled to Brazil and managed to hide out that you would think it is in the best interest of the child to stay with his abductor because he has a bond with them at this time.

On Wednesday, David was able to spend time with Sean (at the compound) playing with Legos and communicating. David was supposed to leave on Thursday. Before David left Sean on Wednesday, Sean asked him if he would come back to visit him Wednesday morning before he left for the US. David rescheduled his flight and spent Wednesday morning with Sean jumping on the tramoline and Sean showing his Dad his new wrestling moves. Does that sound like a son that doesn't want to be with his Dad? Not to me!

CHICANA said:

I can't remember the exact wording, but the right to parent our own children is protected by the constitution. I'm sorry and it might sound harsh, but we're given our children by God and not the government and even if the boy has formed a strong bond with the step parent, he should be with his father. I think it would be more damaging in the long run if he's not allowed to have a relationship with his father.

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The attorney for the Brazilian family continues to press that Sean is Brazilian Born. Sean was born in New Jersey and is an American citizen. There has been some discussion at BSH regarding his dual citizentship but it is believed he is not a Brazilian citizen until he chooses such at age 18 because of the illegal abduction. This sick attorney (Tostes) has even compared Sean coming back to the USA, to sending him to a Nazi concentration camp! How offensive!

Chicana - you are right - SEAN SHOULD BE WITH HIS ONLY FATHER, DAVID GOLDMAN!

First I do want to say - I personally know a man who after his divorce from 3 ex-wives maintained custody of the children from each of those women. He is a wonderful daddy - but an awful husband. So I don't necessarily find it out that a step-father would think of a child as his own and do whatever he could to protect him in what he thought was the child's best interest.

I do believe the child's best interest are what is important here - not the rights of the father or step-father. This child has been so much and I have been thinking if I was his parent what would I do??

Personally - I would have asked all these US politicians to help me find a job in Brazil. I would have moved there and forced the issue to be part of my child's life for the past 5 years. From what I have read - it wasn't that the mother had issues with the father but just that she wanted her child and she wanted to live in Brazil. Fine - she could have that and I could still have my child.

Linda7NJ said:

I honestly think in any situation, the needs of the child should be put first. Children aren't possessions and their voice should be heard.

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I agree they are not possessions, and they should have a voice.

But this is a child! They are not capable of making decisions with so much weight. It's simply unfair and wrong to ask them to do so. The child does not understand the implications of this situation and the choices to be made.

Letting a kidnapped child remain with his kidnappers sets a dangerous precedent. Not to mention the psychological implications for the child.

Columbo said:

I don't have a link but I recall reading that the little boy did not want to leave Brazil. I think it could be traumatic for him to be uprooted and placed in another home--even if it is with his birth father.

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Columbo, this is a child. His maternal grandparents, mother and family most likely perpetuated negative ideas about the father. Having a lot of knowledge about custody issues, I know this is very common for each side to influence the child to their side and to push their opinion. Ah, Bree0372, you covered it well--parental alienation and brainwashing. You are exactly right.

A nine year old does not have the capacity to make these decisions.

It would be traumatic to leave the kid with his kidnappers, severing his ties from his father and paternal family, denying the child his father and family. There is no easy answer. But when you are dealing with a heinous, illegal situation, the solution IS going to be hard!

Having lived with foster children and have adopted siblings, I know that moving to a new home can be traumatic and it can be hard. But it's something that many children can overcome especially in a loving, supportive and caring environment. Children adjust to new homes all the time. They are adaptable beings. What does bother these kids is not knowing why they are given up, why their father never comes over, why there is no one looking for them, who their family is, where they came from and their past. This child would be DENIED all that. And his mother is dead as well so he loses that avenue as well. The pain from all of this is so detrimental.

And again this sets such a dangerous precedent. The fall out is much more far reaching than just this child.

lew657 said:

I do believe the child's best interest are what is important here - not the rights of the father or step-father. This child has been so much and I have been thinking if I was his parent what would I do??

Personally - I would have asked all these US politicians to help me find a job in Brazil. I would have moved there and forced the issue to be part of my child's life for the past 5 years. From what I have read - it wasn't that the mother had issues with the father but just that she wanted her child and she wanted to live in Brazil. Fine - she could have that and I could still have my child.

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Lew657, it's not in the best interest of a child to be kidnapped, ripped away from his active and loving father, taken from his life and home, denied his father, denied paternal family and brainwashed. How could one argue that it is?

Intentional parental alienation and brainwashing of children is abusive. Therefore, this child has been in an abusive environment for 5 years. Would you really suggest remaining in an abusive home is beneficial to the well being of the children?

Suggesting that we allow this precedent and that the father just go there and work is heinous. First off, it's not that easy to get a job wherever you want, whenever you want, however you want--much less one that pays a living wage. Inequality is huge, as is the income gap. "Forty per cent of Brazil's population had an average monthly salary of R$163 (US$54)." You expect him to go there and to be to able to making a living?

Second, does he speak, read and write Portuguese fluently? Third, the father has a family and a life where he has long lived--as did the child before he was ripped from it without a choice. Fourth, this suggests that it's ok to steal your child and deny the other parent and that the responsibility is on the victim to manage the situation.

Fifth, if she wanted to move to Brazil, she could have gone through the appropriate channels legally and in with her then husband. However, she chose not to and she chose to break the law while also denying the father the right to see the child. This does not sound like she just wanted to move to Brazil. It's an obvious attempt to excise the biological father who was involved and wanted to be in the child's life (as illustrated by the attempt to take the bio father's name of the birth certificate!).

You are suggesting a child should be allowed to be kidnapped and the non-offending parent should just cater to the kidnapper? This blows me away. The mother did not consider the well being of the child when she kidnapped him.

lew657 said:

First I do want to say - I personally know a man who after his divorce from 3 ex-wives maintained custody of the children from each of those women. He is a wonderful daddy - but an awful husband. So I don't necessarily find it out that a step-father would think of a child as his own and do whatever he could to protect him in what he thought was the child's best interest.

I do believe the child's best interest are what is important here - not the rights of the father or step-father. This child has been so much and I have been thinking if I was his parent what would I do??

Personally - I would have asked all these US politicians to help me find a job in Brazil. I would have moved there and forced the issue to be part of my child's life for the past 5 years. From what I have read - it wasn't that the mother had issues with the father but just that she wanted her child and she wanted to live in Brazil. Fine - she could have that and I could still have my child.

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In the past, I dated a man for a long time who had a daughter. I couldn't have loved her no more than if she was my very own. I would have loved to have remained in her life, but through life changes, that didn't happen. I still love her - she's now 18. However, I will never be her parent nor would I have tried to be.

I think asking David Goldman to pick up his life in New Jersey and move to Brazil is outrageous! Afterall, it was his selfish wife (may she RIP) that made the decision to abduct their son. In the days following Bruna's arrival in Brazil with Sean, she called to tell David that their marriage was over and that she would not be returning to the US with Sean. Why didn't she stand up for what she wanted while she was still in New Jersey and tell him she wanted to leave and go to Brazil? She packed all of her personal belongings and little to none of Sean's. She knew what she was doing! In fact, she demanded that he come to Brazil and sign a stack of papers to sign custody of Sean over to her and also sign papers stating that he would not seek kidnapping charges against her. That tells me right there that she knew what she was doing was wrong! She told him that he would never see Sean, have Sean and she would make him spend all of his money trying to get Sean back. That's sick no matter how you look at it! Then she turned around and told him that he was the best father that Sean could have ever have.

Bruna had to of had assistance - she was a fashion major, not an international family law expert - like her second husband. Hmmmm!

The fact that so many seem to think a 9-year old is capable of making a lifelong decision is appalling. This is not your normal 9 year old. This child has suffered Parental Alientation for 5 years!!! If someone kidnapped your child, and your child became well adjusted, would you not continue to fight for your child? I think you would!

David Goldman is not the enemy here! The enemy are the ones that are filling this precious little boys head full of LIES! Lies that tell him that his Dad doesn't love him, never fought for him, never tried to see him, never called for him, never sent him gifts on his birthday and at Christmas....IT'S ALL LIES!!!

Judge Pinto of the Brazilian Federal Court passed down a ruling of 82-pages that addresses what everyone here is saying. Read it! It covers everything!!!! To those that are saying we are only hearing the Dad's side -- it's not true! Both sides are represented in the judges ruling....he points out all of the lies that the Step-Father and Grandparents have told. BTW, the step-father is facing criminal charges for failing to abide by a judges order when he removed Sean from Rio last October when HE KNEW that David was coming to Brazil for visitation. He denied knowing it but he had filed an appeal the day prior. :bang: He's not even a good liar!

Let me add, once again, this step-father (Joao Paulo) and his family practice International Family Law. He/They know exactly what they have to do to stall in the Brazilian Justice System and they are doing it! For pete's sake, this is an attorney that practices Hague cases. His father (Paulo) is a Hague Specialist and an expert on Parental Alientation; he is paid to give speeches at conferences. He is the representative for F. Larivee (a Canadian LBP) that is awaiting appeals. This family doesn't care about no one but the amount of money they can put in their pocket. $25K retainer fee?

For those that are not pro-David Goldman....put yourself in his shoes for just one moment and ask yourself....what would you do? I hope the answer would be fight for your child!!! YOUR CHILD!!!! David Goldman is the only surviving biological parent! Brazilian law states that the child should be with a biological parent unless you can prove that the child would be in danger of abuse. Hello???? He's already being abused - mentally abused which can be far worse than physical abuse.

Off my soap box...this case and all the other LBP's cases are my passion. :twocents:

CHICANA said:

I can't remember the exact wording, but the right to parent our own children is protected by the constitution. I'm sorry and it might sound harsh, but we're given our children by God and not the government and even if the boy has formed a strong bond with the step parent, he should be with his father. I think it would be more damaging in the long run if he's not allowed to have a relationship with his father.

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I never said I believed the boy should have no contact or no relationship with his father.

LovingTheChaos said:

This is not just a 'birth father'. This man is daddy. He raised that little boy from birth to 4 years old. I have a 4 year old - her daddy is her daddy for life. On what planet would a step parent ever have rights over a childs mom or dad??? Yes, there will be some adjustment, but children are amazingly resilient & his daddy will do what is best for him. It is just plain WIERD that this step father wants to keep the child. When I first heard of this story, my thought was there may have been some abuse - why would a grown man want to fight to keep another man's child? The Grandparent angle makes sense. If the step-parent is not molesting this child, that is the only explanaition that makes any sense.

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I see nothing weird about it. The boys step father has been daddy for how long now?

I guess some people just don't understand how a person can love a child that isn't their blood. For some people that isn't even possible.

My son is adopted, *I* am his mother and I love him with every fiber of my being. I get it, I understand it.

Brwnigirl said:

I respectfully disagree. The child's primary bond and attachment from birth was with his bio father and it was a secure and positive attachment.
That is a strong reason for him to be returned if you are familiar with attachment theory.

However, further separation from his sibling could be traumatic but I feel he should be with his bio-dad. The bio-dad can work out visitation in the US for the sibling.

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I am quite familiar with attachment theory. I agree his bond the first 4 years was crucial to his development and it was a positive one, that's evidenced by the boys ability to bond so securely to his step-father.

How many times will this child have his bond ( ENTIRE WORLD) ripped apart? How many times must this child suffer because of the adults around him?

I think this child will suffer, if he's moved...again.