Connecticut school district on lockdown after shooting report at a Newtown elemen #8

wfgodot · Dec 21, 2012

HastingsChi said:
I'd be interested to see factual documentation that "he cut out his dad a couple years back".

I think that the media is too heavily relying upon speculation, comments from acquaintances and, in some cases, people who didn't even know the Lanza's. It is troubling when guy who talked to her a few times at a bar is headline news or Adam's barber is in the spotlight and their words are taken as gospel by the media..

So you're saying that people who knew who her are unqualified to give accounts.

As for media, they report. This is what they do.

As for "factual documentation," where do you expect that to come from, specifically? What will give it the imprimatur of flawlessness and objectivity?

Hickory Born · Dec 21, 2012

Have any of you questioned what your friends might say if you had been in NL's shoes? A few of my friends had a discussion about this on our private FB pages.

From past experience dealing with multiple media outlets, my suggestion is to say NOTHING. Many reporters already have their spin prepared before interviewing, and LEAD the person to responses they want to hear.

I was interviewed for ten years while working...glad that part of my life is over.

nursebeeme · Dec 21, 2012

who was the poster that talked about the ink and the whiteout?

I think we won't know anything for a few months until the official report comes out (I just heard this on npr so no link)

we don't know what the hello is up and what the hello is down and who did what, when, where, and why.

officially, that is.

katydid23 · Dec 21, 2012

As I mentioned in the earlier threads, my younger brother had lots of similarities with AL, sadly. And our family had hundreds of family meetings, phone calls, late night sessions, and worries over what to do. So I think it is very sad that any of his family would be judged by any of us. None of us know how many times his father and older brother called him or reached out to him.

I spent years worrying that my own little brother was going to kill someone in a rage. But now he is almost 60, and pretty leveled off with the proper meds. But that took about 20 years to get right. He was committed a few times and arrested a couple of times, and luckily, he never killed anyone. But if he had, I imagine my mom would have come under scrutiny here, because she became his 'babysitter' and his confidante and his only supporter for the past 40 years. She sacrificed much of her life because she became his life support. He lives alone on disability, and SSI, but lives near her and depends upon her in many ways. But he has no contact with the rest of us, by mutual consent I suppose. :cry:

time · Dec 21, 2012

HastingsChi said:
I'm simply suggesting that much of the "reporting" on Nancy Lanza (who was tragically murdered by her own son) is based on comments from acquaintances, 2nd hand information and in one well-documented example someone who heard a rumor and told it to a news organization who ran with it as the truth. It is easier to crucify a murder victim who is not in a position to respond to the speculation being reported by the media whereas if there was such misreporting (or any reporting) about Peter Lanza, it would be quite easy for him to file a slander lawsuit.

Much of the "reporting" seems to put more blame on Nancy than Adam; and no one is even mentioning Peter's role in Adam's life. I'd encourage you to read the reports from MSM about their divorce settlement and how they would both make the decisions about Adam together even during his adulthood. This crucifixion of Nancy Lanza is not responsible journalism and it is not fair to Nancy Lanza who is a victim of murder by her own son.

And TIME, you're absolutely right "We don't know that he wasn't trying to help or get info from Nancy for the past 2-3 years, do we?". Your comment is absolutely correct and only furthers my point that Nancy Lanza is being crucified by the media when we don't actually know the reality of her life the past 2-3 years and the decisions Nancy AND Peter made regarding Adam. It is odd that a victim is blamed by the media yet the other parent of the shooter isn't being discussed. As we know here at WS we honor the victims and do not blame them.

BBM - I HAVE read that. Nancy had the final decision should there be a dispute too. My comment does not further your point 'that Nancy Lanza is being crucified by the media'. Nancy had the guns, that is what the media is pointing out. It's not dad vs mom. We have a right, maybe not in this forum, but elsewhere, to question this.

jjenny · Dec 21, 2012

We know that NL is purchased a number of guns, including all the guns AL used in the shooting.
Also, NL reportedly took AL to gun ranges to teach him how to shoot.
Considering AL had all his issues, this does not appear to be a good idea. If she wanted to teach him responsibility, a less dangerous hobby might have been a much better idea.
That's what people have a problem with.

katydid23 · Dec 21, 2012

time said:
BBM - I HAVE read that. Nancy had the final decision should there be a dispute too. My comment does not further your point 'that Nancy Lanza is being crucified by the media'. Nancy had the guns, that is what the media is pointing out. It's not dad vs mom. We have a right, maybe not in this forum, but elsewhere, to question this.

When my 'crazy' brother lived at home, between hospitalizations, my mom and stepdad had a locked guncase in their locked bedroom, with a shotgun and a handgun and ammo, inside. They said it was because they lived in a rural area outside Reno, but my stepdad told me it was because he sometimes feared my little brother.

I am not going to blame NL for having guns if they were locked up. JMO

time · Dec 21, 2012

Wise Old Owl said:
<snip>
Remote monitored cameras are a good idea but in a case like Sandy Hook - we're still faced with response time by LE. But also in a case like Sandy Hook - even if an armed resource officer had been on campus what is the likelihood of him being in that area as is occurred? Even IF Victoria Soto or Dawn Hochsprung had access to a weapon - they wouldn't have had time to get to it.

JMHO

I'd have to think more about the camera monitoring, but I would sure prefer that to guns in schools.

BBM - I do not believe teachers should walk around armed all day long and other problems could come from that. No way to have enough armed guards in schools to cover every possible entry point as you have mentioned.

time · Dec 21, 2012

katydid23 said:
When my 'crazy' brother lived at home, between hospitalizations, my mom and stepdad had a locked guncase in their locked bedroom, with a shotgun and a handgun and ammo, inside. They said it was because they lived in a rural area outside Reno, but my stepdad told me it was because he sometimes feared my little brother.

I am not going to blame NL for having guns if they were locked up. JMO

Well, 'guns' is relative. I don't think your parents would have needed anything but a regular pistol or shotgun to protect themselves.

HastingsChi · Dec 21, 2012

wfgodot said:
So you're saying that people who knew who her are unqualified to give accounts.

As for media, they report. This is what they do.

As for "factual documentation," where do you expect that to come from, specifically? What will give it the imprimatur of flawlessness and objectivity?

I'm saying that an acquaintance's comments about someone are not as fully developed or reliable as a close friend, professional colleague who one works closely with or family member's comments. (I don't think this statement is a revolutionary, new discovery; I think almost everyone would agree it is a well accepted truth)

As a former member of the media I understand the role and objectives of the media. My professional background as a former journalist provides me with a unique insight into news coverage and the strength of credibility of a published or broadcast report.

With that in mind, I have witnessed a lot of speculation being published on the front page of the Tri-State newspapers and leading local and national coverage of this tragedy. Why do I refer to this as speculation? Simply put: almost none of the statements regarding Adam Lanza or his victim Nancy Lanza have been double sourced. For example, a story that got major coverage was that Adam Lanza targeted Sandy Hook Elementary School because Joshua Flashman stated From what Ive been told, Adam was aware of her petitioning the court for conservatorship and (her) plans to have him committed. Adam was apparently very upset about this. He thought she just wanted to send him away. From what I understand, he was really, really angry. I think this could have been it, what set him off. Unfortunately following the "news" from Flashman being published and broadcast and the talking head shrinks endlessly discussing this being the motive, Flashman's father, Richard Flashman, a pastor at Beacon Hill Evangelical Free Church released a statement that Joshua's comments were based on rumor and speculation and should not be taken as fact.

This is just one of countless examples of what is being widely reported by countless media outlets as "news" whereas in many examples, in reality it is simply rubbish. [Do we even know if Adam even owned a copy of Call of Duty or similar games or even a gaming console that one could play such games? Do we know if the basement that Adam lived in was covered in posters of various military equipment? Do we know how Nancy stored her firearms or if she took her son's to the gun range?]

It is times like this that we as the public need to step back and examine the larger picture of the tragedy and the media to allow the families of the victims to grieve without a camera being shoved in their face for ratings.

wfgodot · Dec 21, 2012

Daughters' school shooting changed my life (Bob Williamson, USA Today)

---
Experts say the closer you are to the epicenter of violence, the longer the healing process. Our daughters heard the gunshots, the cries, the running feet, but fortunately they did not see the killer in the deadly act. They were spared the long-term trauma of some of their schoolmates. Yes, children heal, and adults do, too, but memories and scars linger.
---

the story - the Winnetka IL elementary school shootings, 1991 - at the link

Foxfire · Dec 21, 2012

Wise Old Owl said:
Here's a thought..........

And this is "just a thought" ...................

Instead of putting weapons on school grounds to deter a shooter what about "remote monitoring" - meaning cameras? I am "rabidly" for cameras in schools - EVERYWHERE! (well not in bathrooms, shower/locker rooms of course).

While school shootings are horrible, horrific events - everyday we read about "this teacher that slept with a student" or "that teacher that slapped around a special needs child" - with cameras in classrooms I do believe that would dern near stop.

I've always wanted a camera in my classroom - I do nothing wrong, so what's the problem?

Funny story - years ago - the school I was in had hallway cameras but none in the classrooms. What we did have was a combined fire, carbon monoxide, alarm thingy that was up at the ceiling in a corner of the room. It had red and green lights. Through the years I had my share of behavior problems - so one day I pointed to that box and told them "see that? There's a camera in there so when I take you to lunch I'm going to the office to review the footage" (I think I had a case where one of the students had come up missing the $20.00 bill mom have given her to pay on her lunch account). But that small act - after that - the kids were always "mindful" of that little box up in the corner.

Were they cameras? No. But even if it was - what's the problem? I've asked over the years about putting cameras in classrooms and I'm always faced with teachers, administrators, and the unions telling me "no way - that's not going to work - its an infringement of the bargaining agreement" or whatever silly excuse they use.

We have the technology now to remotely monitor our front doors, speak with a visitor through your phone, and the elderly programs with the little necklace that has an emergency button on it if they are in need.

Remote monitored cameras are a good idea but in a case like Sandy Hook - we're still faced with response time by LE. But also in a case like Sandy Hook - even if an armed resource officer had been on campus what is the likelihood of him being in that area as is occurred? Even IF Victoria Soto or Dawn Hochsprung had access to a weapon - they wouldn't have had time to get to it.

There is no one solution to fixing our schools - but I truly believe cameras (monitoring) should be a huge part. We have daycare facilities now that have monitoring cameras so parents can log-in at work to see what their children are doing. HUGE GREAT IDEA!!!

We have to work together to keep our children safe.

JMHO

RE: Remote monitored cameras are a good idea but in a case like Sandy Hook - we're still faced with response time by LE.

'Wise Old Owl, the response time by LE, may have been as long as 10 minutes from the first 911 call of the Sandy Hook school shooting, based on available timeline reports.
As in most emergencies, time is of the essence to insure public safety. The Sandy Hook school was only a rocks throw from a Fire Station. Many times the Fire Department's response time is much faster than police.
Fire & Police; both public safety officials, have been cross trained to work effectively in many emergency situations.

Consolidation - was used to describe the merger of fire and
police departments and their roles.

Pros & Cons:

The mission of the Ted Stevens Anchorage International Airport Police and Fire Department is to protect Life and property by providing professional police, firefighting, and emergency medical services.

http://dot.alaska.gov/anc/business/policefire/index.shtml

http://www.wishtv.com/dpp/news/local/north_central/town-merges-police-officer-firefighter-duties

Town merges police officer, firefighter duties

WHITESTOWN, Ind. (WISH) - Police officers will soon be fighting fires and firefighters will soon be carrying guns in Whitestown. The town is set to graduate its first class of cross trained first responders

Fire and Police Consolidation: An Ineffective Use of - IAFF
http://www.iaff.org/09News/PDFs/PSOSystems.pdf

wfgodot · Dec 21, 2012

HastingsChi said:
I'm saying that an acquaintance's comments about someone are not as fully developed or reliable as a close friend, professional colleague who one works closely with or family member's comments. (I don't think this statement is a revolutionary, new discovery; I think almost everyone would agree it is a well accepted truth)

As a former member of the media I understand the role and objectives of the media. My professional background as a former journalist provides me with a unique insight into news coverage and the strength of credibility of a published or broadcast report.

With that in mind, I have witnessed a lot of speculation being published on the front page of the Tri-State newspapers and leading local and national coverage of this tragedy. Why do I refer to this as speculation? Simply put: almost none of the statements regarding Adam Lanza or his victim Nancy Lanza have been double sourced. For example, a story that got major coverage was that Adam Lanza targeted Sandy Hook Elementary School because Joshua Flashman stated “From what I’ve been told, Adam was aware of her petitioning the court for conservatorship and (her) plans to have him committed.” “Adam was apparently very upset about this. He thought she just wanted to send him away. From what I understand, he was really, really angry. I think this could have been it, what set him off.” Unfortunately following the "news" from Flashman being published and broadcast and the talking head shrinks endlessly discussing this being the motive, Flashman's father, Richard Flashman, a pastor at Beacon Hill Evangelical Free Church released a statement that Joshua's comments were based on rumor and speculation and should not be taken as fact.

This is just one of countless examples of what is being widely reported by countless media outlets as "news" whereas in many examples, in reality it is simply rubbish. [Do we even know if Adam even owned a copy of Call of Duty or similar games or even a gaming console that one could play such games? Do we know if the basement that Adam lived in was covered in posters of various military equipment? Do we know how Nancy stored her firearms or if she took her son's to the gun range?]

It is times like this that we as the public need to step back and examine the larger picture of the tragedy and the media to allow the families of the victims to grieve without a camera being shoved in their face for ratings.

Well-said, but in the meantime, between the event and the officially sanctioned version, what - a censorship of silence?

An informed public becomes informed largely because it is given the opportunity to read accounts, and to judge what in them is worthy of belief, and what is not.

I too have a background in journalism. But I trust that the American public is able to make informed decisions.

4MYGUYS · Dec 21, 2012

Wise Old Owl said:
Here's a thought..........

..... technology now to remotely monitor our front doors, speak with a visitor through your phone, and the elderly programs with the little necklace that has an - even if an armed resource officer had been on campus what is the likelihood of him being in that area as is occurred? Even IF Victoria Soto or Dawn Hochsprung had access to a weapon - they wouldn't have had time to get to it.

There is no one solution to fixing our schools - but I truly believe cameras (monitoring) should be a huge part. We have daycare facilities now that have monitoring cameras so parents can log-in at work to see what their children are doing. HUGE GREAT IDEA!!!

We have to work together to keep our children safe.

JMHO

ITA!!! so far I've read 2 great (NOT horribly expensive) ideas:

1- Cameras throughout schools
2- 2 exit doors in Each classroom, (either interconnecting classrooms, or to the exterior. (all school buses have 2 exits)
3- .....

HastingsChi · Dec 21, 2012

time said:
BBM - I HAVE read that. Nancy had the final decision should there be a dispute too. My comment does not further your point 'that Nancy Lanza is being crucified by the media'. Nancy had the guns, that is what the media is pointing out. It's not dad vs mom. We have a right, maybe not in this forum, but elsewhere, to question this.

We don't know if Adam Peter Lanza's father Peter owned guns either; but no one seems to raise that question because it is easier to blame a murder victim who is not in a position to respond to such things...

Alicia_marie · Dec 21, 2012

Hi everyone, I am new to this forum and normally I just lurk and read. I find this forum very interesting and I enjoy reading your discussions from real people regarding this tragedy as well as others. I do have a question, and I am aware that there is a gun control thread and this may be a post for that thread, but the question is regarding what happened in conneticut so I am not quite sure where to post it. I am not looking to point fingers or anything, more looking for answers to enlighten myself. I know that the NRA just made their statement today, and this post is completely devoid of opinion and is not meant to be assumed as an accusation or anything in any way. I am curious to know if anyone has looked into whether either the shooter or the mother were part of the NRA. This is not meant to cause any ruckus and please, if it is inappropriate to ask this question, inform me, either mod or otherwise as I would like to maintain the integrity of this site and forum to the best of my abilities. Is there any way to determine if they were members? I am very curious regarding this issue.

jjenny · Dec 21, 2012

HastingsChi said:
We don't know if Adam Peter Lanza's father Peter owned guns either; but no one seems to raise that question because it is easier to blame a murder victim who is not in a position to respond to such things...

AL didn't use his father's guns, and his father didn't live with AL. So what difference would it make?

wfgodot · Dec 21, 2012

Hello and welcome to WS, Alicia_marie!

Elley Mae · Dec 21, 2012

jjenny said:
We know that NL is purchased a number of guns, including all the guns AL used in the shooting.
Also, NL reportedly took AL to gun ranges to teach him how to shoot.
Considering AL had all his issues, this does not appear to be a good idea. If she wanted to teach him responsibility, a less dangerous hobby might have been a much better idea.
That's what people have a problem with.

You know this bothered me as well. I am a big defender of the right to bear arms. I know that I read it had been 6 months or so since she had taken him, and wondered when she did take him was it when he was still in a "good" place in life. I know that in the week or so before it was said that she felt that she was losing him. But I am holding out on the police report on just how AL did get access to the weapons. She seemed to be a responsible person.

manzana · Dec 21, 2012

HastingsChi said:
We don't know if Adam Peter Lanza's father Peter owned guns either; but no one seems to raise that question because it is easier to blame a murder victim who is not in a position to respond to such things...

Well if he did that is really not the issue, UNLESS he had an arsenal like NL with disturbed individuals living in his home.

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