Casey and Family Psych Profile #11

angeldust said:

Is an affidavit a statement?

I have been thinking over the last wee while that george with the (suicide attempt) is gonna take the fall for kc.

I cant get over jb questioning him about not turning up at court if he thought it would save her.

What would happen if George says I did it thats why kc lied even though i believe (know ) that kc is responsable. He goes to jail (cos his life is over anyway) gets away from all the drama and KC WALKS FREE eeek

What could the state do about this if he suddenly confessed.

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Pretty much ignore it. He was working when Caylee disappeared. He did not have the car, KC had it as witnesses will testify. Why would he try to frame his own daughter by placing the body down the street and then expect her to cover for him. Too wild for SA to believe. It may have been for mitigation reasons.

angeldust said:

Is an affidavit a statement?

I have been thinking over the last wee while that george with the (suicide attempt) is gonna take the fall for kc.

I cant get over jb questioning him about not turning up at court if he thought it would save her.

What would happen if George says I did it thats why kc lied even though i believe (know ) that kc is responsable. He goes to jail (cos his life is over anyway) gets away from all the drama and KC WALKS FREE eeek

What could the state do about this if he suddenly confessed.

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I was thinking any statement George would make might have more to do with him being an Agent of The State? :waitasec: According to him that is - not really however.

Padua said:

Really? Are you being sarcastic? I'm sure someone on WS knows who he is. At least I'm hoping.

And I wonder if ICA stole from him or if he babysat Caylee

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Sorry Padua, I am just now seeing this.

And no I was not being sarcastic. I do remember hearing rumblings about CA having a boyfriend in the time that she and GA were separated but I don't remember it ever being flushed out. So it kinda hit me like a ton of bricks....oh yeah, that was said about CA! And if there is any truth to it, that guy's take on the dynamics between KC and CA around the time she got pregnant - could be important. Esp if he saw and heard a lot of fighting. And more importantly...what guy was hanging around with KC at that time.

I hope the SA checked this out, and if there is a guy, tracked him down.
(And let's be honest...CA likes attention from men, she is very touchy feely...so it's not an "out there" idea IMO). And your question about KC messing with this guy....possible, very possible, maybe even probable, as that would get under CA's skin big time, esp if another situation that has been brought up - is true, KWIM??? (I won't type out what that is as it is not fair to that person at this point)

moo

angeldust said:

Is an affidavit a statement?

I have been thinking over the last wee while that george with the (suicide attempt) is gonna take the fall for kc.

I cant get over jb questioning him about not turning up at court if he thought it would save her.

What would happen if George says I did it thats why kc lied even though i believe (know ) that kc is responsable. He goes to jail (cos his life is over anyway) gets away from all the drama and KC WALKS FREE eeek

What could the state do about this if he suddenly confessed.

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That was strange questioning wasn't it? You know what went through my mind when that happened? I thought to myself - ok, was the purpose of that to signal GA not to show up for court during trial?? - I really couldn't figure out what the purpose of that line of questioning was. And I even went to - is JB trying to send GA off the deep end?

moo

MissJames said:

I guess what I'm talking about is the kind of grief that is physical and uncontrollable.Its more than being sad,or weepy. The video of Cindy with Michele Bart,around the time they were going to hold that big press conference,and Mark NeJame quit,Cindy looked devastated and was unable to pull it together.That's what I'm talking about.
I really think Cindy learned the truth just before that video was made.
I just know I could not sit through public discussions of my son's death without showing grief at some point. I have adult children,as well as young kids and it just wells up them and is quite obvious. Anger is definitely a part of it,but just a part.Aside from that one video and the time GA threw up talking to LE,I really haven't seen anything but anger.

CA said on the witness stand that she thought Caylee was still alive. If true ,she doesn't seem too concerned about where she is or who she's with. Just another odd layer to this very odd family that doesn't reconcile with grieving IMO.
I have attended support groups for grieving families of children as well as a group that included families who's loved ones were murdered ,killed by drunk drivers and teen suicide. I've just never seen anyone like the A's.

I haven't seen anything on their part that actually shows love and concern for Caylee ,since the 31st night.Only CYA for themselves and ICA. They never looked for her and never wanted anyone else to look for her. They have not supported anyone trying to help get justice for Caylee. I don't doubt there are things they miss about having Caylee,but I still don't think it's real grief or they wouldn't be behaving as they are. But that's just me.:innocent: and just my own opinion and experience.

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I hope you don't mind me pulling this over to the psych thread, MissJames. It was getting OT on the Defense Strategy thread, but I wanted to talk about this.

ITA. I think you are right. I have wondered if Caylee was ever really part of that family, or just viewed as Casey's mistake the whole time. I don't doubt that they loved Caylee. But boy did they pull rank fast and gather around Casey when Caylee was murdered. I do think Caylee's death affected them, and probably still does. But her importance in that family never ever rose above Casey's importance. Or maybe it almost did, but once Caylee was taken away, GA and CA kept telling themselves that at least they still had Casey. It's warped, but Caylee came from Casey. I really think they believe she can give them another Caylee in the future. In other words, Caylee was replaceable to them, but Casey is not, no matter how bad she is to them.

I think that's where they and Lee differ. I think he sees Casey for what she is and doesn't want her to ever have anymore children. It might be why he's getting married. He's trying to show his parents that they don't need Casey in their lives anymore, not when they still have Lee. I think he's somewhat gotten through to George as George isn't showing up and hasn't been as supportive as he used to be (his time on the stand is just showboating for Casey to make her think he's still on her side so that maybe she won't call him a molester in court. I think Baez told him that if he said certain things on the stand and convinced Casey he still loved and supported her, that maybe she would drop the molestation statements for the trial. I don't think it worked, though). But Cindy will never be convinced of this, not with her thinking of Casey as her twin, which is why she continues to show up everyday. She is in perfect denial and not coming out anytime soon.

I also think a lot of you are right. There is no way in Hades Casey is suffering from PTSD. That is just ridiculous for the defense to even suggest.

Now, don't throw things at me . . .
but I wasn't surprised to hear CA say that she still thinks Caylee is alive - except for the fact that she said it on the witness stand.

I suffer from "complicated grief" along with PTSD. Five years after the event, I sometimes have to allow myself to believe my son is still alive, but off at college, because I cannot accept the fact that he is gone. According to my therapist, it's a self-defense mechanism and is not rare for patients like me. We need a break from the horror of it and that's how the mind protects itself.

I can be chatting away about any old thing and no one would think there was anything wrong with me, but out of nowhere comes a flashback and I'm in obvious agony again - whoever I'm with is shocked and alarmed at the sudden change in me. That's PTSD.

Unfortunately, people who have not suffered through a similar event themselves or with a loved one, can't really understand it. Even most of my friends and family think it's time for me to get over it and move on. It's not always that easy.

I'm not excusing CA's public crusade to prove ICA innocent, but I do know we can't always control our feelings. I think it's obvious CA and ICA had an extremely co-dependent relationship and CA can't extract herself from that. It's like staying with an alcoholic, or a battered wife returning to her abuser again and again, thinking they will change, and often blaming themselves for everything. I think CA does feel guilt now, for not confronting ICA's behavior and she desperately wants a second chance.

I don't think she's going to get one.

That's just my opinion.

.

JMO, but I think CA has made the choice not to grieve until after doing whatever it takes to free ICA. How can she do both at the same time? The two processes are incompatible. I believe that she suppresses the sadness and true grief as much as she can in order to participate in the process towards ICA's acquittal.

This woman is CALCULATED and DETERMINED.

I think she will completely come unraveled after the trial, whether ICA is found innocent or guilty. She can't avoid the grieving process forever.

pip said:

JMO, but I think CA has made the choice not to grieve until after doing whatever it takes to free ICA. How can she do both at the same time? The two processes are incompatible. I believe that she suppresses the sadness and true grief as much as she can in order to participate in the process towards ICA's acquittal.

This woman is CALCULATED and DETERMINED.

I think she will completely come unraveled after the trial, whether ICA is found innocent or guilty. She can't avoid the grieving process forever.

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Hi PIP,

I agree - if not before. If you saw the hearing when Baez questions Yuri on George's telling Yuri the car smelled like death - camera switches to George and Cindy and Cindy is obviously overtaken by this question and answer - she raises her hands to the sides of her face and somewhat stretches and it is the kind of reaction that I have had from time to time and it means (to me) that this is a stark reality that you have to deal with.

This is just hearings - IMO, the prosecution is going to bring out witnesses and information that clearly point to ICA as being a thief, a liar and someone who has destroyed this family with her selfishness and the overwhelming evidence that the body that was found or what was left of it was Caylee (something CA denies).

IMO, if they bring Caylee to LIFE in the jurors minds in the beginning of this trial and make them know her and almost LOVE her, and then take her away in a the blink of an eye in a horrrendous fashion, ICA is in serious trouble re the death penalty.

But it is crucial that the prosecution bring Caylee into the juror's minds and that she not be forgotten after that.

Also, very interesting during Yuri's testimony a couple of weeks back how Baez wanted to show that 31 days was SUSPICIOUS and the lying was SUSPICIOUS (so that he could say Yuri considered her a suspect and therefore should have read her Miranda Rights). But what came across to me was the fact that even KC's lawyer realizes that the whole scenario was SUSPICIOUS and anyone would have felt that way.

Great read

The Narcissistic Mother

http://www.psychforums.com/narcissistic-personality/topic48207.html

LambChop said:

Normal people just do not kill their children, duct tape their mouths and throw them away so they can go on with their lives. Sometimes you just don't need a degree to tell you why people act the way they do. It is often as clear as the nose on your face. jmo

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Bringing this over here so I don't pi$$ off the mods by going off topic-

Not all Psychopaths/Sociopaths/ASPD (technically ASPD is what they are both recognized as in the DSM these days) kill their children and not all those who kill their children are Sociopaths/Psychopaths/ASPD. Do baby killers have Anti-social/Sociopathic/Psychopathic traits? Sure they do but it takes much more then random people in the general public matching up symptoms on a check list to diagnose a person with such a personality disorder. To properly diagnose such a personality disorder (and rule out other possibilities) they sould go through a battery of tests.. psych, achievement and personality tests and assessments as well as neuro imaging (EEG, PET, MRI, CT) testing.

Nobody has said Casey is normal only that we do not know that she is a Sociopath/Psychopath/ASPD. As I've mentioned before, she seems to meet all the criteria for Narcissistic personality disorder http://www.behavenet.com/capsules/disorders/narcissisticpd.htm, Histrionic personality disorder http://www.behavenet.com/capsules/disorders/histrionicpd.htm and much of Borderline personality disorder http://www.behavenet.com/capsules/disorders/borderlinepd.htm as well.. that doesn't mean she's got 'em all or she just may have 'em all. My point is- she meets such a wide variety of criteria that we just have no way of knowing which "illness" is diagnosable. The cautionary statement in the website linked above says much.

onelostgrl said:

bringing this over here so i don't pi$$ off the mods by going off topic-

not all psychopaths/sociopaths/aspd (technically aspd is what they are both recognized as in the dsm these days) kill their children and not all those who kill their children are sociopaths/psychopaths/aspd. Do baby killers have anti-social/sociopathic/psychopathic traits? Sure they do but it takes much more then random people in the general public matching up symptoms on a check list to diagnose a person with such a personality disorder. To properly diagnose such a personality disorder (and rule out other possibilities) they sould go through a battery of tests.. Psych, achievement and personality tests and assessments as well as neuro imaging (eeg, pet, mri, ct) testing.

Nobody has said casey is normal only that we do not know that she is a sociopath/psychopath/aspd. As i've mentioned before, she seems to meet all the criteria for narcissistic personality disorder http://www.behavenet.com/capsules/disorders/narcissisticpd.htm, histrionic personality disorder http://www.behavenet.com/capsules/disorders/histrionicpd.htm and much of borderline personality disorder http://www.behavenet.com/capsules/disorders/borderlinepd.htm as well.. That doesn't mean she's got 'em all or she just may have 'em all. My point is- she meets such a wide variety of criteria that we just have no way of knowing which "illness" is diagnosable. The cautionary statement in the website linked above says much.

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thank you.

flipflop53 said:

When GA was leaving court at the Agents of the state,etc. hearing, he stated to his lawyer that he would fill out an affidavit immediately. I wonder if it is related to what you are saying.

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Now why would he need/want to sign an affidavit? That he is being completely truthful about LE's manipulation of him as a agent of the state/:floorlaugh: Curious as to what convinced George to be so blindly used by the state; Money? not when there were donations, media interviews, photo's to sell, nonprofit's to exploit and friends in low places. Deceit? Doubt that since George knew what that smell was in Casey's car. Sense of integrity? Don't believe George can even grasp the concept, MOO.



Novice Seeker

This family is the most aggravating thing Florida has produced since the hanging chads.

miss plum said:

This family is the most aggravating thing Florida has produced since the hanging chads.

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LOL you seem to forget the cummings and croslins lol!

Anyone pick up on KCs reaction when George testified about her being in the back of the car HANDCUFFED. He said it was around an hour, he thought. And KC gave a look of shock and rolled those eyes.

Solace said:

Anyone pick up on KCs reaction when George testified about her being in the back of the car HANDCUFFED. He said it was around an hour, he thought. And KC gave a look of shock and rolled those eyes.

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Yeah, George..the family joke.

OneLostGrl said:

Yeah, George..the family joke.

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Why is that OLG? I mean this in all seriousness because I trust your opinion. Why is that the case with this family, do you think, in regards to George?

OneLostGrl said:

Bringing this over here so I don't pi$$ off the mods by going off topic-

Not all Psychopaths/Sociopaths/ASPD (technically ASPD is what they are both recognized as in the DSM these days) kill their children and not all those who kill their children are Sociopaths/Psychopaths/ASPD. Do baby killers have Anti-social/Sociopathic/Psychopathic traits? Sure they do but it takes much more then random people in the general public matching up symptoms on a check list to diagnose a person with such a personality disorder. To properly diagnose such a personality disorder (and rule out other possibilities) they sould go through a battery of tests.. psych, achievement and personality tests and assessments as well as neuro imaging (EEG, PET, MRI, CT) testing.

Nobody has said Casey is normal only that we do not know that she is a Sociopath/Psychopath/ASPD. As I've mentioned before, she seems to meet all the criteria for Narcissistic personality disorder http://www.behavenet.com/capsules/disorders/narcissisticpd.htm, Histrionic personality disorder http://www.behavenet.com/capsules/disorders/histrionicpd.htm and much of Borderline personality disorder http://www.behavenet.com/capsules/disorders/borderlinepd.htm as well.. that doesn't mean she's got 'em all or she just may have 'em all. My point is- she meets such a wide variety of criteria that we just have no way of knowing which "illness" is diagnosable. The cautionary statement in the website linked above says much.

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Good post One Lost,

She does show emotion; so it is very hard to say she has none. She cried about her mother and her brother - but it was short lived. She does meet the criteria for a sociopath - all of it. She does not meet the criteria of a psychopath. She does not plan at all. I know some will say she planned when she looked up killing, but that was her mulling it and I think the day she did it, was when she was furious with Cindy - they had a fight the night before I would bet money on it.

Frigga said:

Why is that OLG? I mean this in all seriousness because I trust your opinion. Why is that the case with this family, do you think, in regards to George?

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I'm not quite sure really but maybe because he's passive and dependent and needs to be taken care of... he's a man/child. Can't hold a job, steals from his wife and family, was allegedly conned (and he's former LE!) out of money and can't even stand up to his wife regarding his own children.

ICA and CA are in love again - they wore the same shades of grey today to court. CA
brings ICA clothing. I just shake my head - its so blantant the disordered pathlogy
displayed so proudly like it is a virtue.