IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 - #22

akh said:

While there could be several reasons not to show the video, just seeing these people as they appeared that night (and immediately around the time of the disappearance (clothing, demeanor, hair, etc....) might spark someone's memory about seeing someone in the video that they later saw doing or saying something that might be of interest to the police.

Since no POI has really been shown in a widespread way someone at a gas station or other early morning business might recognize them from the video as being in their place when they've been claiming to be home in bed (or whatever). Maybe some good samaritan helped one of them with a car problem that morning far from where they claimed to have been. Maybe one of them went thru a 24hr drivethru at 6AM?

The point being... it's not outside the realm of possibility one of these videos could spark someone to recall something small about that night that could in reality have huge implications for someone's alibi. Of course that needs weighed against what the police already know or think they know and can't afford to compromise by tipping their hand on what they have on the video.

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Excellent post, this is what I have been trying to say, but you did a much better job than me!!
:yourock:

akh said:

While there could be several reasons not to show the video, just seeing these people as they appeared that night (and immediately around the time of the disappearance (clothing, demeanor, hair, etc....) might spark someone's memory about seeing someone in the video that they later saw doing or saying something that might be of interest to the police.

Since no POI has really been shown in a widespread way someone at a gas station or other early morning business might recognize them from the video as being in their place when they've been claiming to be home in bed (or whatever). Maybe some good samaritan helped one of them with a car problem that morning far from where they claimed to have been. Maybe one of them went thru a 24hr drivethru at 6AM?

The point being... it's not outside the realm of possibility one of these videos could spark someone to recall something small about that night that could in reality have huge implications for someone's alibi. Of course that needs weighed against what the police already know or think they know and can't afford to compromise by tipping their hand on what they have on the video.

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I would agree.Releasing video of the white truck got LE very quick results.I can not believe their is not video of other vehicles or people in the area around the time she went missing that could be helpful.

Like on "Cops" and other shows...maybe LE would obligated to blur their faces anyway, since no one has been named as a suspect, so not sure showing a video would do much good...

What I find odd is that with all of those cameras the only video still (of a human being) that has been released, is of the victim.

I'm still new, so correct me if I am wrong, but usually when following a crime-related news story, those grainy shots are of suspects, or "POI"s.

plaidmom said:

What I find odd is that with all of those cameras the only video still (of a human being) that has been released, is of the victim.

I'm still new, so correct me if I am wrong, but usually when following a crime-related news story, those grainy shots are of suspects, or "POI"s.

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Well, she is who they are looking for...LE said they know who everyone is else they have on video that pertains to Lauren...

They probably released the video of Lauren so people who had seen her would come forward.

cluciano63 said:

Well, she is who they are looking for...LE said they know who everyone is else they have on video that pertains to Lauren...

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Yeah. I thought about that before posting.

Then I look again at the map and the timeline. I see all those red arrows. I think about the time: 2:27 am at Kilroy's til what, 4:30 pm, when LS is reported missing.

That is quite a bit of time. There are a lot of cameras. There must be a boat load of footage. And yet this is what released? ONE pic of the victim and two pics of a white pickup truck... which turns out to be a "red herring"?

Perhaps that is the advantage of a small town. LE knows everyone and ~almost~ every vehichle that passes through town.

"Anything small could be big", so the party line goes. And yet that doesn't seem to be the case. Citizens who step forward are quickly discredited and/or dispatched.

I sometimes worry that LS wandered into something much larger than even she could imagine.

How's that landfill search going?

mamamia54 said:

I would think so, yes. If the video shows anyone, POI or not, they would be liable.

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Especially if it shows those other people engaged in questionable behavior

Sorry, just because the public wants to see the videos, that doesn't make it appropriate. Just because we want to know more, that doesn't make it in the investigation's best interest.

mountainguy777 said:

I think whatever happenedin the alley(doing drugs or sex) pales at this point to finding lauren. If the video can POSSIBLY help, let's see it. We are talking college kids here. No matter what lauren did, nobody had a reason to hide her body.

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I guess I don't see how releasing that to the public can help. It might answer some questions for us, but we are not involved in the investigation. I agree with the poster to opined that IF LE (and/or the family) felt that releasing videos would move the investigation forward, they would probably release.

Hi - I know there are some who read ChickJustin's blog (theforceofreason) and take it with a grain of salt, but I'm curious about some of her claims -

Is it true that the homeless man who heard the scream is dead and/or murdered?

Crystal Grubb was found strangled I believe. How did Jill Behrman die? Is it true the cause of death wasn't released? I read one account saying she was shot in the back of the head but ChickJustin seems to think she was strangled. There are those that believe the wrong person is incarcerated.

There was another account of a woman who claimed to be strangled but escaped. So, it would seem Bloomington has a phantom strangler.

And then there's that account of the policeman who shot himself on duty at 5:30 in the morning and was an apparent suicide. Really? Who would shot themselves on duty?

LittleAMom said:

Hi - I know there are some who read ChickJustin's blog (theforceofreason) and take it with a grain of salt, but I'm curious about some of her claims -

Is it true that the homeless man who heard the scream is dead and/or murdered?

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per the Herald Times June 13: There was a homeless man found dead behind a restaurant. No indication of foul play. AFAIK, there is no link between this man and the homeless man who reported that he heard a scream.

And then there's that account of the policeman who shot himself on duty at 5:30 in the morning and was an apparent suicide. Really? Who would shot themselves on duty?

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Because he's got the means and the ability? Why would he NOT do it on duty as opposed to at home, or some other place? Very often the place of the suicide is a statement. The challenge is often for the living to figure out what that statement really meant!

MOO ChickJustin is delusional. My daughter has paranoia (without schizophrenia) and my nephew has paranoid schizophrenia with delusions. CJ's rantings frequently sound like outbursts that might come from either one of them.

bloom54 said:

Especially if it shows those other people engaged in questionable behavior

Sorry, just because the public wants to see the videos, that doesn't make it appropriate. Just because we want to know more, that doesn't make it in the investigation's best interest.

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How do we know that without seing the video .Untill the public views this tape you can't say for sure that it wouldn't help maybe someone in the public would see something or someone that would help with the investigation Im pretty sure that is the reason people use billboards and flyers /posters for tips for the public to be able to help . And if people are worried that is might show them in questionable behavior well thats just to bad all the more reason not to be engaged in questionable behavior wouldn't ya say . This kinda reminds me of jennifer kesse case the parents had to fight with the LE to get the 2nd video released and allthough it hasn't resulted in an arrest I would hope most people would want everything to be looked at and scruitenized if thier loved one was missing.

It is not that unusual for cops to kill themselves while on duty. I have heard of it before. It is a very stressful job and it is a way of making a statement. Sometimes they lose their spouses and families because of the job related hours and stress, and shooting themselves in the squad car is a statement of some kind.

Angelonline said:

This has probably been discussed before, but if so I have not seen it. I would really like to know why the police won't release the video footage or give more details as to the exact nature of all that went on from those tapes. I can see in some of the other cases mentioned as to why the police may be silent, because most likely in those cases they have nothing or don't really know anything. In this case Lauren has been missing for just over 2 months now and there is video footage of her on that last night, video footage from more than one location. I am sure that the police, FBI, etc have went over the tapes with a fine tooth comb and apparently have not found anything relevant or anything that will help find her or charge someone. However I have heard her family state on diferent occasions that they have not seen the tapes and surely her friends have not seen the tapes. Those tapes, IMO may give a clue to someone that knew Lauren, something out of the oridnary that police or investigators may not know to look for just because they do not know Lauren personally. Or the public at large may be able to spot something or someone on those tapes that is unusual. The tapes may be no help if released, but at this point as I pray every day for Laurens safe return or for closure for her poor mom and dad, I just wish the police would do something with what they have, because they have a lot more to go on than other cases, IMO.

JMOO

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With all due respect I do not think that releasing the remainder of the tape will do the public any good. What happened on there is evidence. They know who is was and now it's a question of where is Lauren. If I were the parents, I would vehemently object to the release of the tape knowing that those were my child's final moments. They have the POI right under their nose and not letting him go far. They would like a clean cut prosecution and a conviction, a body. So releasing the video would be in the interest of sensationalism, not in the best interest of this case and successful prosecution of the person responsible. I am whole heartedly against its release. If LE thought it would help in apprehending an offender, it would have been released by now.

The video would satisfy our curiosities, but would likely do nothing to help the case. It isn't like where the victim is seen with an unknown person or an unknown car is seen. Everyone in the videos is known to LE as stated by them. The only thing it could prove is how intoxicated she was which wouldn't really help a random viewer on the internet find her body or get a confession.

I DO think if things start to get colder and time passes that we may get some little tidbits here and there to stop it from being forgotten completely. Maybe that will include the video and maybe it won't.

MOO, My own theory, fill in the blanks, poke holes as you wish.

Lauren partied with JR, HT, CR, DR and others and 5 North earlier in the night (perhaps 12:30ish). She went back with CR to Smallwood and was confronted by friends of JW. The beat the snot out of CR because he's with JW's girlfriend. LS & CR leave. Go to Killoys, things are starting to turn worse for Lauren. Perhaps the party favors at 5 North were starting to take on their side effects, mixed with her heart medication or her heart condition. She decides she's going home, or she can't decide anything so CR decides. For reasons unknown to this poster, they leave Smallwood rather quickly. CR shouldn't be there anyway. Maybe she was looking for her phone, maybe she was getting her medicine, maybe we don't know why. HT was likely home at the time (about 2:30). She knows how messed up Lauren was. Now 2:30 is the time that JW says he went to bed. The timing is uncanny. Could it be that HT gave JW a heads up that LS and CR were headed to 5 North? Hmmm. Coincidence? JW leaves his phone so as not to be tracked and goes to find Lauren, who according to HT, made some poor choices that night. She and CR are walking to 5 North via the alley. This was probably a common way to travel. JW beats her to the punch. He's got the heads up that she's on her was there. He's got some business to take care of with the guy that took his girlfriend and his girlfriend herself. JW cuts her off at the gravel lot, under the eye of the camera. He's mad as he**. She is supposed to be with him that night. His real goal is CR, but CR takes off running (he's messed up but not suffering the side effects that LS might be suffering) and is spotted on the video outside of his attorney's office (other reasons he maybe spotted outside attys office), or he runs inside his apartment. Lauren is incapacitated, helpless and at the mercy of a raging mad boyfriend. The side effects of the party favors are really taking effect. Something is happening to LS and between JW and LS - right there at about 3 AM. It doesn't matter anymore. LE and Lauren's parents know. That's all that does matter. There are several questions remaining... Did she die of an overdose? Did JW do something to contribute? Nevertheless, JW is left with LS (I imagine he is culpable or he would have called 911). What is he going to do? Does he have his car nearby? Did he allude the cameras, take the back roads and get to 5 North without being noticed? Did he go on foot afraid his car would be noticed. Does he hide the body in his trunk? a nearby dumpster? The WHERE that we do not know. Still no action on his cell phone, his sleeping alibi is safe. CR eventually gets back to 5 North and tells MB, JR (and the other actors that were present at the pre-party) about his encounter with JW, about Lauren, her condition. They all freak out. They make a few calls but clearer heads prevail. Wait until morning. Perhaps they go out and look for her, perhaps CR is spotted looking for her (the other reason CR may be spotted on video outside his attys office). They're worried because of the condition she is in. They parrtied with her. They contributed. They're culpable. No Lauren.

They all rise early the next morning. Phones are buzzing where is Lauren? But JW? - he takes his roommate to his 8:00 class. Then he starts looking for a place to hide Lauren. It can't be far - his actions are now under the spotlight but there is foot and car traffic and perhaps his car is seen on video at 8:00AM so he fesses up to it anyway. Lauren is missing. He's got very little time. Did he put her in something (suitcase? ) and put her in the trunk before daylight? Did he do it the night before? Could he risk her being found by someone else? He knows where the cameras are. He's been on that campus for 4 years.

Everyone is wondering what happened to Lauren because EVERYONE may have played a part and not even realized it. JW is left holding the bag. He helped, no doubt. Hiding a body is a felony. Drugs are too. Everyone just zips it up tight until a body is found and the cause of death is determined. Perhaps there is more than one cause of death and therefore 10 POIs keep their mouths shut. They all know the part they played, some more than others. But as frat boys go - they all stick together. Some more loyal to friends than others. Some protecting a bigger operation. Some just protecting themselves. Better to be safe. Maybe only one person knows where Lauren is, but 10 are sitting on eggs wondering what their role in a murder conviction may bring.

JR calls DR at 4:15, who ironically lives at Smallwood and was with them earlier, to check and see if Lauren made it home. He doesn't answer. DR is three sheets to the wind.

There's only one common denominator between these people, albeit an innocent one, that is HT. She likes JW but talks to JR that morning. She talks to JW that morning. She knows what everyone said and did, well maybe everything, and Lauren's parents are disgusted that she isn't telling more...

JMOO

Pedrosmom said:

MOO, My own theory, fill in the blanks, poke holes as you wish.

Lauren partied with JR, HT, CR, DR and others and 5 North earlier in the night (perhaps 12:30ish). She went back with CR to Smallwood and was confronted by friends of JW. The beat the snot out of CR because he's with JW's girlfriend. LS & CR leave. Go to Killoys, things are starting to turn worse for Lauren.

JMOO

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You have the sequence backwards. They went to Kilroy's after 5 North and THEN back to SW...

They only went to SW once -- AFTER Kilroy's... per LE, LS didn't actually enter her apartment during that visit and per reports HT was not present at the altercation.

As far as the guys who fought with CR being "friends of JW" I think later reports indicated that they were not.

I believe the latest timeline for JW taking his roommate to class the next day was at noon...

While I don't believe much of your scenario/timeline, I do agree that HT has way more info than she's sharing - at least publicly.... and she's been pretty quiet lately, so perhaps she's talking to LE...

Pedro's mom, it's too hard to even "poke holes" in that story as Bloom54 points out, working with info we have, you have the sequence of events wrong, and very likely people involved in altercation wrong and time JW took roomate to class wrong. I also find it extremely difficult to believe that if a furious and vengeful JW showed up and was left with Lauren that these other clowns (CR, MB, and JR) would involve themselves in her disappearance. Especially MB. And although those 3 may have been friends with each other, they were hardly buds with JW, so very unlikely IMO that they'd be willing to help shield him. If JW was involved, I think it happened after she left 5 north in that 4:15 range, but I personally don't think she ever "walked" out of 5north that morning. I do agree with you and with Bloom that HT probably knows or has heard much more than she is sharing.

I agree Jedger, why would JR say he saw her that night if he didn't and why would he end up being the last person to see her if in fact he wasn't. I too, unfortunately don't believe she walked out of 5 North that morning either.

Nothing new about Landfill searching?
I wonder if it will really happen, or was it an effort to smoke out and get one of the POI's or others to come forward ...