Syringe in bottle contained traces of chloroform

Imbackon · Nov 7, 2009

Valhall said:
It may have been further than that. The best description I can find places it from 4 to 16 feet to the northwest of the skull. The bag (with the rest of the remains) was to the southwest of the skull.

Courtesy of Harmony2

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=6119&d=1257605229

I see this as like a foot from eachother. How do you get 4 - 16 feet?

Dear Prudence · Nov 7, 2009

Imbackon said:
I don't think copy/paste explains it. Note that the entire column has wording that has been centered even. Not like it was left over data from a previous document imho.

I agree and don't think auto-fill explains it either because it looks more like a table in a Word document than a spreadsheet. JMO

zadari · Nov 7, 2009

i really hope kc gets the needle herself now ..i hope god will render some kind of justice for little caylee .. she didnt deserve death

JWG · Nov 7, 2009

Valhall said:
I'm more inclined to believe the gatorade bottle and syringe have absolutely nothing to do with either Caylee or Casey.

Kind of thinking that myself ... still ...

Daylight/1257 · Nov 7, 2009

zadari said:
i really hope kc gets the needle herself now ..

I'm trying not to get bitter about it, but I'm holding out for 20 years in the electric chair. :crazy:

notthatsmart · Nov 7, 2009

The cops around here just take a copy of the barcode around to stores and find out where it was purchased. I am sure they did that.

I guess its time for me to look at the trunk trash bag stuff and see if anyone Casey knew drank cool blue gatorade.

zadari · Nov 7, 2009

Daylight/1257 said:
I'm trying not to get bitter about it, but I'm holding out for 20 years in the electric chair. :crazy:

i just never will understand how adults can kill such beautiful children .. it makes my heart break and hurt ..

The Eunice Burns · Nov 7, 2009

ynotdivein said:
I hear you. By the same token, if you are going to kill your own child, why would you leave her in your trunk for however long, then dump her less than a mile from the house? Maybe because you're hoping to frame someone, either the Vanishing Nanny or a male acquaintance?Sorry, do not mean to be snarky. I just don't think we can, well, "think" our way into her head.

(And I look forward to hearing if the syringe was used to inject, or to extract a solution from the bottle. IF the syringe is related to this case at all. Which I think it is. Which again makes my brain hurt. Where is that giant bottle of aspirin?)

BBM I think this is a great thing to keep in mind as we probe and ponder this case. Excellent point, ynotdivein! KC did many things along the way that didn't and don't make sense. So, if we apply that truth, it makes it possible that she may have left the syringe and bottle. IF, if it is indeed tied to the case and to her. Then it would be one more nonsensical thing she did. Conversely, it would not be nonsensical to her if she was trying to frame someone directly w/ those items.

It's great to have you here! No more lurking, please!

lizzysf · Nov 7, 2009

zadari said:
i just never will understand how adults can kill such beautiful children .. it makes my heart break and hurt ..

and i wish i could help to prevent beautiful children from growing up to become killers..:innocent:

panthera · Nov 7, 2009

zadari said:
i really hope kc gets the needle herself now ..i hope god will render some kind of justice for little caylee .. she didnt deserve death

How ironic that would be if indeed Caylee died by "lethal injection". MOO

Crabcake23 · Nov 7, 2009

Valhall said:
I think they're just trash and unrelated to Caylee's death.

I'm open minded enough to consider that. If there's no dna or prints associated with the them, then yeah, possible trash. But to find chloroform? That's pretty coincidental. How often do you find that in everyday trash? Unless steroids and ethanol combined can produce it?

ynotdivein · Nov 7, 2009

JWG said:
KC (I refuse to spell her name) is the most unlucky criminal ...

After doing computer searches on chloroform, she tossed her dead daughter almost on top of a bottle containing chloroform and a syringe.

The body and bag land at a property point between two owners/renters who have names that correspond to the fictitious kidnapper.

Some random person named "zenaida" without a FL driver's license creates a myspace page on the same day Casey dispatches her "problem" and logs into it for the very last time after Casey is "dispatched" to jail.

Circumstantial all. (Not that I think that it is merely circumstantial.)

I agree with your post, except to include that "a random person" could have dumped the bottle almost on top of her dead daughter post-event. But using the "reasonable person" rubric, um, this is all looking bad for Ms. A.

Not familiar with FL law and this may be a very naive thing to ask, but can a preponderance of circumstantial evidence rise to the level needed for a DP disposition?

carrie · Nov 7, 2009

DogMom2JoeAndWillie said:
. . . The "control" you're talking about it a standard... look back at my post earlier about quantification. The standards are used to set up a calibration curve, are not in contact with the sample, are injected separately, and really have nothing to do with the unknown samples analysis . . .

My answers in red. Hope this helps some, sorry I don't have all the answers you need. I'll keep trying though.

[respectfully snipped and BBM]

Thank you so much for your input and trying to help us sort this out.

I'm glad you explained about the control-that's what I was thinking it meant- but then I'd started to wonder if there was another meaning/use of the term "control" in chemistry of which I was unaware.

I hope you are able to figure this out.

I have a question BTW: Are there many, or even a few, common chemicals/solutions/liquids that one would expect to contain a trace of chloroform ? I know we don't yet know whether it's a trace or a larger amount/concentration - just wondering if there are any common solutions that would/could test positive for chloroform.

The Eunice Burns · Nov 7, 2009

lizzysf said:
In examining both sides of the "what if" coin.. I think we need to question why the Body Farm's conclusion that the body was in the trunk 2.6 days (which I never believed)..has now been contradicted by the entomology report. The Body Farm, Dr. Vass, in the same report, concluded that there were high levels of Chloroform in the trunk. He also stated in an email that releasing the Chloroform results to the public was a mistake. Do we have an inaccurate trunk Chloroform conclusion as well?
It is very hard to sort out, given the computer search on 'how to make Chloroform' and the muddy as of yet report of Chloroform in the syringe/Gatorade bottle. This is all a bit bothersome.

Wait. On pg. 10459 of NH's forensic entomology report he states....

"These conditions imply that remains were removed earlier in this earlier interval (June 19-22) rather than later (June 23-27)." Pg 10459 (BBM)

That is but a snippet of the section, but when I read that......I immediately thought that it actually dovetails w/ the air sample report of 2.6 days...

Unless I made an error and reached the wrong conclusion. I will have to go back and look at the pertinent page.....

MD MOMMY · Nov 7, 2009

notthatsmart said:
The cops around here just take a copy of the barcode around to stores and find out where it was purchased. I am sure they did that.

I guess its time for me to look at the trunk trash bag stuff and see if anyone Casey knew drank cool blue gatorade.

IIRC..there is one receipt from Winn Dixie that we haven't seen. We've seen the Target receipts but there was 1 from Winn Dixie that wasn't there. I wonder if it contained some Gatorade? Could also be they didn't recover the receipt of course. I'm just wishful thinking.

The Eunice Burns · Nov 7, 2009

Chloroform on the computer
Chloroform in the trunk
Chloroform in a bottle
Chloroform in a syringe (?)
Chloroform in a conversation KC had w/ TMc
"Win her over with chloroform"

That's a lot of chloroform. What are the odds? Bookmakers, tell us!

zadari · Nov 7, 2009

lizzysf said:
and i wish i could help to prevent beautiful children from growing up to become killers..:innocent:

yeah that is an awful thing too

zadari · Nov 7, 2009

panthera said:
How ironic that would be if indeed Caylee died by "lethal injection". MOO

i really hope caylee didnt know what was happening to her but i just have such a feeling that she did ..

notthatsmart · Nov 7, 2009

lizzysf said:
For those that think the Chloroform is not related.. give me your thoughts on the results Dr. Vass came up with for high levels in the trunk. I am beginning to have some doubts there.. given his approximation of 2.6 days in the trunk. The entomology report blows that finding out of the water.

I know this is off topic and I am sorry.

I thought that Dr Vass conentrated the sample before testing essentially making it parts per million instead of parts per trillion.

BeanE · Nov 7, 2009

The Eunice Burns said:
Chloroform on the computer
Chloroform in the trunk
Chloroform in a bottle
Chloroform in a syringe (?)
Chloroform in a conversation KC had w/ TMc
"Win her over with chlorform"

That's a lot of chloroform. What are the odds? Bookmakers, tell us!

I've got a ping pong like game going in my head tonight:

not enough to tie bottle/syringe to KC <--> too many chloroform coincidences for it not to

Syringe in bottle contained traces of chloroform

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