2009.12.09 SA Motions filed - LDB Slams Defense, JJ Protective Order

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I think that their "experts" didn't say what they wanted them to say. It will be interesting to see who they come up with, come trial time, if they come up with anyone.I have the feeling that Jose and Co. are going to delay, delay, delay. I am glad to see the state is pushing full steam ahead !

Maybe this is why they're attacking the constitutionality of the death penalty in Florida. The defense doesn't have a defense, or a very weak, so they're assuming a guilty verdict and working on the penalty phase of the trial.
 
Would the defense still be required to hand over (as discovery) opinions of experts they employ to the state, even if their opinion is not favorable to the defense?

I have absolutely, none, zilch confidence that trial will start in summer of 2010

I agree that Baez hasn't even begun to start filing his continuances yet. If you go back to the very few cases he has defended, they are full of continuances due to "defense not ready to proceed". I do not expect any different in this case (unless Judge Strickland :furious::furious::furious:)

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I am wondering about this,I dont have knowledge.Could Judge Strickland "lite a fire under them " some way? No Defense should be able to just postpone forever.:rolleyes::banghead::slap: I'd love to know how much KC.actually knows about her "case"...
 
Wouldn't some of the evidence have degraded by now? Don't experts always need to look at evidence as early as possible to ensure the best results?

Or is it normal to just look at discovery docs - if indeed they've even done that - and just take their good old time until the last minute and then take a quick glance at the evidence?

Doesn't this leave thing open for the SA to question the expertise of these people? What's the jury going to think of this?

My mind is blown. I'm sitting here repeatedly yelling at my husband, "BUT THEY HAVEN'T EVEN LOOKED AT THE EVIDENCE YET!" over and over and over.
 
JB et al were on the HOT SEAT to provide evidence that would prove the body wasn't there until KC was in jail. Todd M. made statements in court that they had PROOF, not that they had statements or evidence....he said PROOF. The SA called him on it. IMO...JB et al filed this to stay out of hot water for the defense teams reckless statements and the SA is calling their bluff by saying, "Nope this doesn't count and you know it.". JB doesn't have any further info and he wants to cover his posterior and avoid being reprimanded. THE SA, has lost their patience and wants the nonsense and games to end.
 
Why am I not surprised? Nothing they have done has been above-board. You can't defend the defenseless. Their witnesses, expert or otherwise won't save her.
 
Why am I not surprised? Nothing they have done has been above-board. You can't defend the defenseless. Their witnesses, expert or otherwise won't save her.

Desperate times need desperate measures and ..... boy do the Defense appear desperate. How many Florida Bar complaints does it take to officially recognize the tactics being employed have clearly crossed ethical and legal boundaries?

JB will leverage the DP to drag this out as long as he can to maximize his moment of fame because ...... once the trial does start ...... rut roh

GAME OVER.
 
Wouldn't some of the evidence have degraded by now? Don't experts always need to look at evidence as early as possible to ensure the best results?
Or is it normal to just look at discovery docs - if indeed they've even done that - and just take their good old time until the last minute and then take a quick glance at the evidence?

Doesn't this leave thing open for the SA to question the expertise of these people? What's the jury going to think of this?

My mind is blown. I'm sitting here repeatedly yelling at my husband, "BUT THEY HAVEN'T EVEN LOOKED AT THE EVIDENCE YET!" over and over and over.


Good question, especially in regards to Dr. Lee and the trunk of that car. It has been 17 months at this point.....I would imagine that any testimony he offered at trial that benefited the defense could be suggestively refuted by SA due to degradation and contamination at this point....?
 
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I am wondering about this,I dont have knowledge.Could Judge Strickland "lite a fire under them " some way? No Defense should be able to just postpone forever.:rolleyes::banghead::slap: I'd love to know how much KC.actually knows about her "case"...


I posed this question to RH in his thread so hopefully we will get an answer when he revisits us.

I would assume that Baez is required to provide any and all court documents that are filed with the court to his client so imagine that KC has either read these motions or will have something to entertain her with her morning prune juice tomorrow?
 
JB et al were on the HOT SEAT to provide evidence that would prove the body wasn't there until KC was in jail. Todd M. made statements in court that they had PROOF, not that they had statements or evidence....he said PROOF. The SA called him on it. IMO...JB et al filed this to stay out of hot water for the defense teams reckless statements and the SA is calling their bluff by saying, "Nope this doesn't count and you know it.". JB doesn't have any further info and he wants to cover his posterior and avoid being reprimanded. THE SA, has lost their patience and wants the nonsense and games to end.


Do you agree that Mr. Baez may be feeling another stomach ache coming on?? :waitasec:

I think SA has pushed them in a corner...
 
Good question, especially in regards to Dr. Lee and the trunk of that car. It has been 17 months at this point.....I would imagine that any testimony he offered at trial that benefited the defense could be suggestively refuted by SA due to degradation and contamination at this point....?

As a stark contrast, when Caylee's remains were discovered last December the Defense had a whole squad of forensic experts on the perimeter of Suburban doing pressers to complain that they needed access and needed to process the crime scene in partnership with LE. The Defense even courteously pre-identified the remains as Caylee before they were formally identified in their rush to get access.

Since then? Nada.

Interesting that there was a rush to judgement at that time and since then all they have done is do media tours and call it all 'junk science'.

I think they are more focused on poking holes in the procedures and handling than the actual evidence and topics such as the duct tape contamination played into that for them.

As we have seen time and time again, like the 1,000's of tips, rather than do the leg work they are more than happy to take any scraps that fall from the prosecution table for free.
 
Wouldn't some of the evidence have degraded by now? Don't experts always need to look at evidence as early as possible to ensure the best results?

Or is it normal to just look at discovery docs - if indeed they've even done that - and just take their good old time until the last minute and then take a quick glance at the evidence?

Doesn't this leave thing open for the SA to question the expertise of these people? What's the jury going to think of this?

My mind is blown. I'm sitting here repeatedly yelling at my husband, "BUT THEY HAVEN'T EVEN LOOKED AT THE EVIDENCE YET!" over and over and over.

IMO some evidence, for instance the entomology report, is based on facts that cannot be changed. For instance if it is a fact that one diptera leg was found, whether a defense expert examines that leg or not it will still most likely be a diptera leg. Where the expert testimony comes in I think, is in the interpretation of the facts. If the defense expert suspects it is not a diptera leg, that evidence is available and will be checked. If the defense expert has a different opinion on the meaning of the facts than has the prosecutions expert, well that’s what we have a jury for.
Some evidence is timely, and needs to be examined immediately or asap. The defense raised a big stink when they were not allowed at the scene where the remains were found. They had experts there but weren’t allowed in because LE had not yet verified it was Caylee. Once the proper and necessary steps were taken by LE in recovering as much evidence as possible, the botanical evidence the defense wanted to gather had been inadvertently destroyed.
Just a week or so ago I looked up the defense witness list, and there were only 3 names on it. That bothered me a lot, and made me ask what are they doing?
I’m curious about this JJ protection order. It sounds to me like he recorded a conversation with a member of the defense team illegally, and then reported to police he had done that, and now the SA is trying to get any information that was talked about during that conversation to be ruled inadmissible in court. As always moo
 
If JB knew what was best for him and his client, he would have asked for a plea (life in prison over the dp). I don't know if they would have given KC that but it was worth a shot.....now I believe it is too late for that. I believe that she will be found guilty and given the dp. :croc:
 
That or..
He didn't like hearing them say "show me the money"
:woohoo:

And at this point in the game, I think they are probably saying "show me LOTS and LOTS of money" in order to get involved with this defense team.

The window of opportunity for any expert to believe that getting involved in this case would be a boost to their career slammed shut as JB fumbled and flubbed his way through the court system (imo).
 
If JB knew what was best for him and his client, he would have asked for a plea (life in prison over the dp). I don't know if they would have given KC that but it was worth a shot.....now I believe it is too late for that. I believe that she will be found guilty and given the dp. :croc:
I have always believed that if Casey had a decent attorney a plea deal would have been a possibility. Jose wants the limelight and a short plea deal would be less of a pay off in that arena. In other words, the book deal will be better if this goes to trial.
 
Do you agree that Mr. Baez may be feeling another stomach ache coming on?? :waitasec:

I think SA has pushed them in a corner...


I don't know. JB seems to have some secret path, map, or blueprint he is following. His behavior is consistent......act bold and clean up later. I don't think he is nervous or upset...I think he is sure that HE knows what he is doing even if the rest of us don't. His actions, at times, defy logic, but he always seems to manage to distract everyone with his behavior or departure from protocol. THis far in, I think he knows exactly what he is doing and why. I have turned my attention to finding a connection between all the "loons" oozing out of the woodwork and the defense team. Perhaps that is where his plan / blueprint will materialize. There is a common theme of Entertainment, Fast Cars, and a few more. hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
 
IMO some evidence, for instance the entomology report, is based on facts that cannot be changed. For instance if it is a fact that one diptera leg was found, whether a defense expert examines that leg or not it will still most likely be a diptera leg. Where the expert testimony comes in I think, is in the interpretation of the facts. If the defense expert suspects it is not a diptera leg, that evidence is available and will be checked. If the defense expert has a different opinion on the meaning of the facts than has the prosecutions expert, well that’s what we have a jury for.
Some evidence is timely, and needs to be examined immediately or asap. The defense raised a big stink when they were not allowed at the scene where the remains were found. They had experts there but weren’t allowed in because LE had not yet verified it was Caylee. Once the proper and necessary steps were taken by LE in recovering as much evidence as possible, the botanical evidence the defense wanted to gather had been inadvertently destroyed.
Just a week or so ago I looked up the defense witness list, and there were only 3 names on it. That bothered me a lot, and made me ask what are they doing?
I’m curious about this JJ protection order. It sounds to me like he recorded a conversation with a member of the defense team illegally, and then reported to police he had done that, and now the SA is trying to get any information that was talked about during that conversation to be ruled inadmissible in court. As always moo


IF I am understanding this correctly, this is what I THINK happened....

1. The defense contacted JJ and set up an interview meeting (FACT-MOTION)

2. Interview took place and Baez began questioning JJ about searching in exact area of found remains AS TES VOLUNTEER (what has been implied)

3. At some point, Baez questioning becomes leading in JJ's opinion (not surprising since baez doesn't know what the he77 he is doing most of the time!) so JJ conspicuously "records" meeting (or did from beginning)...I assume with cell phone? (MY OPINION)

4. Meeting concludes and JJ immediately goes to OCSD and reports that he illegally recorded Baez (and others?) at meeting. (FACT - MOTION)

5. OCSD contacts Baez and notifies him of crime and Baez (and others) decline prosecuting JJ for the crime he committed (it is against the law to record conversation) (FACT - MOTION)

(I believe that Baez declined prosecuting either because he did not want this interview tactic revealed and/or did not expect that LDB would file this motion bringing it to light!)

6. LDB prepares and files motion to notice court of incident as well as on behalf of JJ so that Baez cannot use any statement that JJ may have made during meeting that he now feels could be misleading (FACT and OPINION).

(Just wanted to add in edit that remember that JJ did NOT seek out JB...the defense supposively FOUND him, believing he was a TES volunteer who searched the exact area Caylee was eventually found in, but whose name was NOT included in the 32 provided by Nejame, so JJ may have been suspicious from the very beginning of Baez intentions while "interviewing" him, hence carrying a recording device of some type into the meeting....)
 
I don't know. JB seems to have some secret path, map, or blueprint he is following. His behavior is consistent......act bold and clean up later. I don't think he is nervous or upset...I think he is sure that HE knows what he is doing even if the rest of us don't. His actions, at times, defy logic, but he always seems to manage to distract everyone with his behavior or departure from protocol. THis far in, I think he knows exactly what he is doing and why. I have turned my attention to finding a connection between all the "loons" oozing out of the woodwork and the defense team. Perhaps that is where his plan / blueprint will materialize. There is a common theme of Entertainment, Fast Cars, and a few more. hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Oh my....you are scaring me! Half way through reading it, I had to remind myself that you were talking about Baez and NOT KC!!!! (same song, different verse?)

LOL!
 
Do you think that the JJ incident was a set-up by JB to see what the SA would do with this witness and his tape? Maybe I misunderstood the motion, but it sounded like it would have been illegal for anyone to have listened to it. Did JB get caught. I don't know.
 
I don't know. JB seems to have some secret path, map, or blueprint he is following. His behavior is consistent......act bold and clean up later. I don't think he is nervous or upset...I think he is sure that HE knows what he is doing even if the rest of us don't. His actions, at times, defy logic, but he always seems to manage to distract everyone with his behavior or departure from protocol. THis far in, I think he knows exactly what he is doing and why. I have turned my attention to finding a connection between all the "loons" oozing out of the woodwork and the defense team. Perhaps that is where his plan / blueprint will materialize. There is a common theme of Entertainment, Fast Cars, and a few more. hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

I am not as confident in any plan or strategic blueprint pre-AL.

If you stumble around long enough blindly you are going to stumble onto something good and I personally think that something good was signing up AL --- since then there has been a purpose, a focus and, a strategy with moving parts. Not before. :twocents:
 
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